Disaster Readiness

I swear I just heard tornado sirens sound off then stop just as I started freaking out.

Not sure what it was cause last I heard Minden had sirens, they just had not been installed yet.

Wow. That gave me heart flutters.

We have a certain disaster plan at work since it's a hospital. I could be required to stay, my job responsibilities would be altered. It's good that they have that.

Then at home, I follow the old upper midwestern post-Depression strategy of having alot of canned goods & edibles that will keep without electricity & don't necessarily need to be cooked.

Cell phone would only work so long without batteries but basically we would all try to make our way home & regroup. That's what we did after the big earthquake here.

Need more flashlights, radios - thinking of getting those which don't require batteries or electricity too.

Don't forget the duct tape! (Why did they tell us to stock up on it & then we never heard any more? What about chemical attacks? Did the fear factor of that wear off?)

Am I in the wrong spot for Contractors?

Iraq Security Contractors to Get Sensitivity Training

The trouble with State Department security contractors, it turns out, is that they're just not very sensitive.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Tuesday ordered new measures to improve government oversight of private guards who protect U.S. diplomats in Iraq, including extensive cultural awareness training for contractors.

The AP got an advance description of the recommendations made by Ambassador Patrick Kennedy, Rice's adviser on contractor oversight. But TPMmuckraker goes a step beyond. We've got an advance look at the cultural-awareness lesson plan for Blackwater, Triple Canopy and DynCorp.

Lesson One: Don't drunkenly murder bodyguards of Iraqi dignitaries.

Lesson Two: Should Lesson One fail, don't hire those who drunkenly murder bodyguards of Iraqi dignitaries.

Lesson Three: Don't shoot people as they flee in terror from your orgy of destruction.

Lesson Four: Don't force terrified civilians off the road with your reckless convoys.

Lesson Five: Don't fire your weapons at members of the U.S. military.

Lesson Six: Don't broadcast your orgy of destruction on YouTube while set to music meant to show what a bad ass you are.

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004539.php

Regarding the differences between the disasters in New Orleans and Southern California, WE ARE talking about two completely different countries!!! NOLA is poor, uneducated, immobile and ill-prepared. To make a generalization - the South has a tradition of lack of education and poverty.

Southern California is the opposite:

wealthy
educated
informed
mobile

Ralpheh

We may be wealthy and educated, and definitely mobile (just count the number of BMWs you see on our freeways). But informed, we are NOT.

I've never seen a more seriously misinformed place than the reactionary suburbs of Los Angeles, Orange County, and San Diego. I feel it every time I visit another part of the country (or the world, for that matter).

The skies above me, btw, are covered in thick smoke and haze. It's hard to see the sun or the moon. No shadows on the ground anymore.

And the nearest fires are at least 30 miles away from me...

It's terrible here right now.

Carol, yes, there is some impact in terms of a tax base, or lack thereof, and thus how much $$ is available for the local/state gov't to support its people.

I find it amusing that most stories about the massage therapists, magicians, clowns, etc. at Qualcomm make it seem as though the San Diego local government takes care of its pampered people this well...you read a little more closely, though, and it turns out all these "extras" were donated - people donating their time to help out their neighbors.

As a general note, I just finished reading "Rising Tide" - which is about the Mississippi River flood of 1927, and was written about 10 years ago, and therefore was in no way impacted by Katrina. And yet the parallels and contrasts are telling. It is a comprehensive look at about 75 years of Mississippi River valley history and thus provides tremendously valuable background for anyone who is interested in why Katrina struck so many discordant historical notes for folks - and more broadly, why the Delta turned out like it did. I also realized (dumb me, yes) that the NOLA levees were originally designed to hold out against a rising river (upstream), not a storm surge from the Gulf & MRGO & Lake Ponchetrain (downstream). Hence part of the problem...

Christy, my point was that there was no integrated planning or preparedness - everyone planned for their own little corner of the world, and then when they all had to depend on each other, things fell apart. Compounded by a general distrust of the government by the public, a history of nothing happening unless bribes and back-door connections eased the way, and an antipathy between the mayor, the governor, and the president...that is not the way to prepare for disasters. So they knew the levees wouldn't withstand more than a Cat 3 (which Katrina, at landfall, was)...all the more reason to have a good integrated well-rehearsed comprehensive evacuation plan.

And just in case anyone was worried about me...

I'm fine. Again, fires are at least 30 miles away from where I am.

I do believe that one employee who recently moved to the San Bernardino Mountains lost his home, though I haven't confirmed.

V and Christy,

As both of you know, the corruption in Louisiana politics is legendary.

that certainly played the key part in Katrina.

This is a neat little video - I kinda like the rap: "What ya gonna do with all that junk, junk, junk that's in your trunk...?"

We may be wealthy and educated, and definitely mobile (just count the number of BMWs you see on our freeways). But informed, we are NOT.

@@@@

a lot more informed than the poor folks in NOLA.

Interesting commentary on politicians, from a guy who just attended a big Dem event in Portland, just as I just attended a big Dem event in Seattle - who do we believe? those who are running? those who are selling? those who could be written up in the press if they were candid?:

To tell you the truth, I pulled my punch a little too. I didn't go into the gory details but softened it thusly: "There was a poll on Daily Kos today concerning Speaker Pelosi and Majority Leader Reid and they did very badly." He seemed surprised. I guess he wasn't online today! I continued "The left is feeling extremely disaffected. What can we tell them?" The Governor said "You can tell them that Mitch McConnell is blocking our bills and that we need to elect more Democrats." I have to admit I wasn't satisfied and pushed a little on whether the Democrats could be doing more about Iraq. He said that we wouldn't be out until we have a Democrat in the White House. And you should have seen the look he gave me! He was very polite but I think I'd crossed a line. Maybe in a different setting we could have talked longer but at this event I'd overstayed my welcome. I thanked him, shook his hand, and let him move on to the rest of the crowd.

I had hoped to get an answer to why the Democrats aren't defunding, aren't following up on subpoenas, aren't moving to restore habeas corpus and so on. I came away reminded that Governor Dean, a real hero of mine (and I just might vote for him in the primary like I told him!), is not the policy maker. He's the top salesman for the Party. He won't criticize Democrats, certainly not in public and I don't blame him for that. I wonder, though, what he thinks when he hears questions like mine, in city after city, for surely he does hear them.

http://www.docudharma.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=C7C5BCAC2719D6EACC375283EF6DD112?diaryId=1647

I love the horseraces!!
http://www.2008horserace.com/
This is my new form of entertainment - I wonder if you can really bet money? More fun than the stock market or currency speculation!

not my president said:
I love the horseraces!!
=====
I live in between the two biggest horseracing communities and tracks in Queensland, and have never been to the races in my life. But I do love the Horses

Glad your okay Ally, stay safe.

Watching it over here.

Morning all,

We went to see a new documentary, "Meeting Resistance", last night.

http://meetingresistance.org/

Check it out--it is THE answer to partition, the Surge, staying the course, and all the other rejoinders. Here is the synopsis, from the website:

What would you do if your country was invaded? MEETING RESISTANCE raises the veil of anonymity surrounding the Iraqi insurgency by meeting face to face with individuals who are passionately engaged in the struggle, and documenting for the very first time, the sentiments experienced and actions taken by a nation's citizens when their homeland is occupied. Voices that have previously not been heard, male and female, speak candidly about their motivations, hopes and goals, revealing a kaleidoscope of human perspectives. Featuring reflective, yet fervent conversations with active insurgents, MEETING RESISTANCE is the missing puzzle piece in understanding the Iraq war. Directed by Steve Connors and Molly Bingham, this daring, eye-opening film provides unique insight into the personal narratives of people involved in the resistance, exploding myth after myth about the war in Iraq and the Iraqis who participate. Through its unprecedented access to these clandestine groups, MEETING RESISTANCE focuses the spotlight on the "other side," leaving the viewer with clarity as to why the violence in Iraq continues to this day.

Steve and Molly were there last night and a far-ranging and informed conversation was held with the Washington audience. We all need to be getting this important film into the Congressional offices, to fight the delusional beliefs that get passed around inside.

I'm growing very tired of seeing the people continue to speak of NOLA residents in negative tone.

Unless you've spent considerable time there, and have soaked in the culture and the heritage of the people and the place, I kindly request that you step off.

Karen--I discovered the directors' statement over at your link. Their statement (edited) is rather remarkable--as follows:

"...(snip)

By spending so long in the making of this film we were able to note trends and track them by cross-referencing them between characters from different groups. Two good examples of this were - first - being told of the preparation to use IED's two months before they came into use and why and - second - about the use of dogs and electricity as torture techniques in Abu Ghraib prison, information that was related to us in December of 2003.

Of the utmost importance to us was learning how Iraq's social and religious characteristics made the violent resistance to occupation inevitable. We struggled to understand these forces and sought out Iraqi experts in those fields in an attempt to provide explanations to an audience which is - like us - largely of a secular Christian tradition that values social individualism.

We didn't set out to challenge the official narrative of the war in Iraq, but by going out and seeking the stories on the other side that has inevitably happened. As a result Meeting Resistance calls into question many of the myths that have established themselves as fact in both the journalistic and public consciousness. If we take the testimony of these individuals as being credible - and there is little reason not to do so - then we must re-examine such notions as the role of administrative incompetence on the part of the occupying civil authorities, in either inspiring or fueling the violence. Other issues, such as the seeming predominance of foreign fighters or of a violent Ba'ath party revanchism, no longer seem so certain and the timeline as we have come to know it all but eliminates the current received wisdom that the insurgency existed and began as a pre-planned operation. Some of the people we interviewed were Shia - fighting alongside their Sunni colleagues - and the idea that has recently become common currency, that Iraq is a country riven by ancient sectarian hatreds, is a claim for which we found little evidence. In fact we found several of the individuals engaged in the resistance that we spoke to were in mixed marriages or were from mixed families. What was clear through these characters was the terrible price all Iraqi society would pay should sectarian conflict take center stage. Indeed, the research we did for Meeting Resistance indicates that any existing fissures in Iraqi society at the time of the 2003 invasion were exploited and exacerbated by coalition forces and administrators in order to enable the success of the occupation.

We filmed Meeting Resistance around the streets and alleyways and ubiquitous teashops of Adhamiya. Much of the look and feel of the film derives from the necessity of working within the challenges and security issues inherent to the project itself. We used in-camera techniques to conceal the identities of the individuals we interviewed - more for our own protection than theirs - and attempted to do so in a way that didn't eliminate the body language and attitude of character that is so important to understanding the human condition. We are grateful to the people of Adhamiya who unfailingly received us with warmth and their own particular brand of generous hospitality.

Ultimately we feel Meeting Resistance raises as many questions as it answers but in doing so it makes a vital contribution and informs the debate on Iraq. We hope this film inspires others to ask those questions.

Steve Connors
Molly Bingham

Monkey,

I think I agree with you. I'm not from there, and I only went there once, post Katrina, to help teardown and rebuild.

But it sounds like we are starting to give the federal govt. a pass on this and that is absolutely not acceptable. Yes there were problems at the local and state level. But the federal response was disastrous.

California is a rich state with powerful people from north to south. Louisianna is a poor state with all the problems that go along with that.

And I think one of the most chilling aspects of this is that Louisianna just elected a republican governor. I can't help but wonder if that is because they saw republican neighbor Haley Barbour of Mississippi get all the money he needed, because he was a friend of Bush. That scares me.

And what I meant to say was that it is the federal government's JOB to step in when the local and state are overwhelmed, either due to lack of resources, level of disaster, or even inadequacy. They absolutely did not do that in New Orleans. They failed miserably.

Carol
I agree with that - WHERE is our federal government, which should protect people in all the land, not leave it up to the states like we are 50 different countries.

Amen Monkey!

BTW, I forgot to tell you I do like your monkeyball poster. I just finished up a commission so I will play with a few images and sketch something out. I'm thinking oldschool theatre posters, but I am not sure yet how to work the monkey in yet.

V, this is my point darlin...

"So they knew the levees wouldn't withstand more than a Cat 3 (which Katrina, at landfall, was)...all the more reason to have a good integrated well-rehearsed comprehensive evacuation plan."

But they did have a well thought out evacuation plan at hand. They evacuated almost a million people successfully with almost no problems. Yes things were overlooked and it was chaos, but it was the second phase of the plan, the one where the feds show up and help that caused the problems we saw. Nagin and Blanco had no hope of controlling the situation once their entire infasrtucture was drowned before them. For almost 6 days, they just left them there with no help.

For as long as New Orleans has been there, ALL of Louisiana has known the levys are inadequate. It is why we feared such a storm. But residents can not just bring in loads of dirt and start reinforcing the levies themselves. They would be arrested for something that probably had 'National Security' in the title.

Blanco and even Nagin could not have forced it either, because those levys are solely under the control of the FEDERAL government.

For years the Corp of Engineers requested more money, but I do believe they either thought we could protect ourselves on the cheap, or...or, they deliberately kept it weakened so they could once again have the opportunity to clense themselves of all those black people living on land they wanted. Impossible, except they've done it before.

I have no stomach for comparing Cali to Louisiana. They are being well cared for, and as I said already, I am grateful for that. That is how it is SUPPOSSED to work. These fires are unbelievable.

But, Calis disaster is not a government induced disaster. Katrina was an act of nature, true, but she was also a political, religious and racial force as well, all because the US Government decided we were not worth saving.

Even now, Katrina is still here. These fires will be put out eventually. We will all give money to help rebuild everything, as it should be. And life will go on again, in spite of everything lost.

Katrina though, she did not JUST flood New Orleans. She tore the mask off of the soul of America, and even now we are still shocked and repelled by what we let ourselves become.

We are still upset to know that leaving people for 5 days with no help will return them to an animalistic primative state. We would rather believe our own would never react that way.

Almost 6 days later, the entire nation was devastated. These fires are nothing like Katrina.

I told yall how Jindal got elected.

Fear.

If you had heard his campaign commercial you would understand it I think.

But, strangely enough, I can not find it archived online anywhere, not even his own site.

If anyone does look for it, it is the one about the 'Katrina Gun Grab', and has him saying...'Now...IMAGINE..'

Do you know why Louisiana is the way she is? Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear.

When people are afraid, cut off from and ignored by the rest of the nation, the people are left at the mercy of those they fear.

And it helps that the smear campiagn against Nagin and Blanco was so successful, even now when we think of it, we say, well maybe the feds not showing up for almost 6 days was their fault after all.

Do you know why Jindal lost to Blanco the first time? Do you know why Blanco actually became Governor? Because Jindal is NOT WHITE.

Blanco, even being a dem, was the obvious choice.

This time though, anything except a dem like Blanco and Nagin will do. It must have been their fault New Orleans turned into a disaster, regardless of how it really happened right before our own eyes.

They are using fear to brainwash people on a mass scale here. And it works, too.

Jindal makes me gag.

Orange County Fire Chief: "Had We Had More Air Resources, We Would Have Been Able To Control This Fire"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/10/24/orange-county-fire-chief_n_69664.html

Ralpheh

I didn't say SoCal was uninformed, I said misinformed.

There is a difference. :)

Moreover, SoCal can also be uneducated at times, because the Central American immigrants who come here often have only a year or two of grade school at most - back home, they were too poor to study further, and had to start working at age 10 or earlier. I've had a few such people go through my business; it's very difficult to communicate with them, even in English AND Spanish.

And NOLA, even though I've never been there, I am sure it is a national treasure, with its share of informed, educated people. It's always been a progressive island in a region of reactionaries - kind of like San Francisco Bay Area in California.

Christy

You can never have enough money in a disaster.

The key is to put in enough money to be reasonably well prepared, without draining the treasury. That's true of NOLA, that's also true of Orange County.

It's tough to do with the ever-tightening government cash flow though.

As for Jindal, he is the perfect example of why immigrants are NOT automatic Democrats. White liberal Democrats ignore this at their own peril.

Carol

It's scary but true. Being Republican gets you a lot of help these days, from W.

W has been very strict about rewarding his loyalists and punishing his opponents.

California's high gas prices are another example - it's a "blue state" so it gets punished. Even in the same county (say, Los Angeles), Republican areas have much lower gas prices than Democratic areas.

Another example I love to bring up is immigration. Nationalities that have trended Republican, and/or help the Republican agenda (i.e. homophobia), get a free pass, even as the rest of the immigrant communities suffer greatly. There is a reason why thousands of Latvians can appear out of nowhere and hold a huge homophobic rally in Lynnwood, WA, as NMP recently reported.

The Photo was from USA Today.

Here's the link:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/10/todays-photo-wo.html

The photo, above. WOW. That is Des, who oversees the Code Pink house and who is as fierce as they come.

oh good Karen, since you know Des, maybe you can go over to the USAToday blog and flatten out this post(er)...

"The woman, who may have valid complaint, appears to be very mentally ill. Unfortunately, these kinds of people are either recruited or attracted to such causes. Ms. Rice, did well to ignore her and go about her business. Ms. Rice is doing her job. She is not responsible to fix the world."

Actually, Condoleeza Rice's job IS to fix the world, as head of the State Department of the United States, or at least to leave it in better shape than she found it & who has figurative blood on her hands.

Carol said:
And I think one of the most chilling aspects of this is that Louisianna just elected a republican governor. I can't help but wonder if that is because they saw republican neighbor Haley Barbour of Mississippi get all the money he needed, because he was a friend of Bush. That scares me.
======

Go Figure, I never will.

Police cleared in use of Taser on student
Sen. Kerry questioner was taken down after pleading, ‘Don't Tase me bro!’

GAINESVILLE, Florida - University of Florida police were justified when they used a Taser against a student who refused to stop questioning Senator John Kerry at a campus event, according to a state investigation released Wednesday.

A 17-page executive summary of the 300-page Florida Department of Law Enforcement report was released by the University of Florida after some questioned the use of force against student Andrew Meyer.

The scuffle between Meyer and police started during the Sept. 17 speech when Meyer refused to leave the microphone after his allotted time was up, police said. The videotaped altercation and Meyer's cries of "Don't Tase me bro!" were played frequently on the Internet.

"In short, the FDLE determined that our officers acted well within state guidelines," university President Bernie Machen said in a letter to students, faculty and staff.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21454383/

Southwick Wins Confirmation
WASHINGTON — The Senate on Wednesday confirmed Judge Leslie Southwick to the federal appeals court in New Orleans after minority Republicans overpowered objections by Democrats who said he wasn't sensitive enough to the history of race relations in the region.

The 59-38 vote on confirmation was sealed after the nomination survived its main obstacle, a test tally moments earlier in which a dozen Democrats sided with Republicans to end a threatened filibuster. That left majority Democrats without the power to block Southwick's confirmation, even after a heated debate that raised the pain of civil rights struggles in the 5th Circuit, which serves Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20071024/senate-southwick/

I bet they confirm but?

All 10 Dems On Judiciary Cmte Write Mukasey: Denounce Waterboarding As Torture
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/24/washington/24mukasey.html?ex=1350878400&en=77ca72cd033dd806&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Bush Has Publicly Threatened 46 Vetoes This Year

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/bush-ramps-up-personal-role-in-veto-battle-as-approval-ratings-weaken-2007-10-23.html

Bush Has Publicly Threatened 46 Vetoes This Year....

Wow, his veto-to-insurgent-kill ratios are gonna skyrocket!

Some Gumslinger

$2.4 trillion on wars projected over next decade
White House brushes off analysis of Iraq, Afghanistan fight as 'speculation'

NBC News and news services

WASHINGTON - Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost as much as $2.4 trillion through the next decade, according to a new analysis Wednesday that the White House brushed off as "speculation."

The analysis, by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, provides the most comprehensive and far-reaching estimate to date, taking into account costs previously not counted and assuming large number of forces would remain in the regions.

According to CBO, the U.S. has spent about $600 billion to date on both wars, including $39 billion in diplomatic operations and foreign aid.

If the U.S. cuts the number of troops deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan to 75,000 six years from now, it would cost the U.S. another $1 trillion for military and diplomatic operations and $705 billion in interest payments to pay for the wars through 2017.

Democrats say voters won't stand for it, and so they would consider paying for the military campaigns in brief installments, instead of full one-year terms.

According to NBC News, CBO Director Peter Orszag met with members of the House Budget committee on Wednesday and told them, "It's clear under analysis that the nation is on an unstable fiscal path ... with the higher debt and interest costs."

The White House brushed off the estimate as too conditional.

"It's just a ton of speculation," said White House press secretary Dana Perino. "We don't know how much the war is going to cost in the future."

House Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel, D-Ill., said voters were suffering from "sticker shock."

"America's future is being held hostage by the cost of the war," he said.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21456930/

Another video for 10 Questions ( I have little or no hope that this question will either be asked or answered )

Media Benjamin illegally arrested. Lori and Desiree were arrested as well.

Another video for 10 Questions ( I have little or no hope that this question will either be asked or answered )

I am at the Code Pink house, where Lori has been released after being illegally arrested, and Liz was taken to the hospital after being really hurt.

Desiree is being charged with assaulting a federal officer. This is a very serious charge.

People of the DCP, this is critical. Please call Congress and the Capitol Police. When women are thrown to the ground and hurt, and arrested for no reason whatsoever, democracy is gone. Even the policewomen who were doing the arrests today were shocked and upset.

We must stand together.

"When women are thrown to the ground and hurt, and arrested for no reason whatsoever, democracy is gone. "

Karen, I hate to say it, but this has not been a 'democracy' for a long time. She has no rights of Habeus Corpus. She has no protection of The Bill of Rights. All of that is GONE.

Tell her I think they are very brave. Mostly because what you are facing down is the most greedy and muderous bunch I have ever seen.

And they are running out of time to play out their final acts of looting and butchery.

Democracy, is no longer an option Karen. They will not even pretend any more to be one, it is a waste of time they don't have.

Turkey is aready bombing Northern Iraq now with war planes. I am afraid we are all out of time now.

The only way to stop him was impeachment, and now we know what history will remember the most about g*ddamn nancy pelosi.

Iran will ally with Turkey to take out the Kurds. And World War 3 will be fought with suicide bombers. There. Here. Everywhere.

NMP, please email me.

simpson1962@bellsouth.com

Christy,

I hate to agree with your grim statement, but I must, since you are telling the truth.

Democracy is no more in America.

CodePink has my full support, and I am proud to be marching with them on Saturday. But don't be surprised if I don't come back online for a few days afterwards, if LAPD decides to take orders from the W regime and arrest me.

Christy

You always say it's right vs. wrong, not Democrats vs. Republicans.

And I agree with you more and more.

The Dems can forget about my vote if Pelosi continues to lead a do-nothing Congress, and if its only "accomplishment" is in passing non-trans inclusive ENDA.

My nonpartisan days are over.

I will reregister in time for the primary.

If the Dems fix their act, I am going Dem, and voting for John Edwards (then the eventual presidential nominee, whoever it may be).

If the Dems don't get it, I am going Green. I'll be the only Green in a community full of Repukes and American Independents (California's branch of the reactionary Constitution Party), but I'm moving to a more moderate place next year anyway.

Before yall heap anymore praise on the govanator, please, we are talking about a man that calls nurses and teachers 'special intrest groups'.

Snip

What the Governor failed to mention is that he vetoed four bills that would have increased staffing and fire resources after the Cedar Fire, at a cost of tens of millions of dollars. A fifth bill, signed by Schwarzenegger, requires local governments to first submit safety plans to the California Department of Forestry and will not take effect until 2010, the Los Angeles Times reported in a May 20, 2007 article titled “Fire danger acute as 2003 lessons fade.” That article has since disappeared off the newspaper’s website, but a copy is here.

The same story cited Dallas Jones, former director of the Governor’s Office of Emergency Services and current official with California Professional Firefighters union. Jones damned Schwarzenegger for failing to provide additional firetrucks. “How many years are we since the ’03 fire siege?” he asked, “and so far, nothing.”

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5202

Blanco was a hero, do not let them twist what actually happened.

Ahnuld has some explaining to do. To firefighters. So not good for Ahnuld.

CAPITOL POLICE CONTACT NUMBERS:

Watch Commander (24-7):
202-224-0908

Public Information Officer (business hours)

202-224-1677

Ally, I hate that you agree with me. I keep hoping I am just crazy and this sh*t is not really happening. I keep trying to tell myself I must be seeing things.

I shake my head and then an Abu Ghraib photo pops into my mind and I know it has to be real, cause there is no way my brain could allow me to invent even imaginary images like that. I am so appalled I am afraid it will drive me insane.

Torture. No, I think, it can't be real, then it starts all over again.

I think as patriots, we all must finally come to terms with the fact 'democracy' as we knew it and define the term, no longer exists, and will not be an option any time in the foreseeable future.

Those that rig elections never intend to allow democracy to rule.

They will start a war here among us, it is the only war that will provide long term war profits for them and enough fog of war to cover their tracks.

It has been their intention all along. They are training preachers for Gods sake to 'calm' us when they lock down this country. 50 little countries becomes 50 little prison camps.

THEY ALREADY BUILT THE DAMN PRISONS!

Democracy.... is a dream we all share, but it is no longer an option in reality.

Damn, this can't be real. But...it is.

Christy
Your email bounces back - I'll try again later.

Ally:

Right on! I mean: "The Dems can forget about my vote if Pelosi continues to lead a do-nothing Congress, and if its only 'accomplishment' is in passing non-trans inclusive ENDA." So, which Green Party person do you think will be Speaker of the House in 2008? Or which Republican? You are right about Pelosi -- I can't belive how she caved to the Armenians! Despicable!

Chuck in Houston

Ally:

Come to think on it, is there a single member of the Green Party that is a member of the US House or Representives? I know they have no Senators.

Chuck in Houston

of Representatives I meant

Sorry

Chuck
I don't think in this country there is a Green like that - there are some in local government. I think Barney Frank used to be a Socialist. I think the rest span all the way from people like Kucinich to the really moderate Dems, & Congress seems to have more diversity, given it's proportional and more members.

Some Europeans have told us they think our two big parties encompass what would be a bunch of parties in their systems (or Canada), with coalition government power-sharing.

Christy
I think Turkey is mostly dealing with its own borders and that our being in Iraq is making the Kurds of Iraq and Turkey band together, which is a problem for Turkey.

I doubt Iran would ally with Turkey - modern Iran and modern Turkey are so different. I did read though that Turkish opinion of US has gone way down recently.

The Armenian thing was badly timed, but when I was in Turkey several people told me they resented US because the chaos in Iraq, their neighbor, allowed Russians that used to be in Iraq to seep over into Turkey.

These were Russians who dominated the hotel and fur trade and gave us an uneasy feeling, Mafia like. I think there are still alot of problems steming back from when the Soviet Union broke up.

Just back from the Code Pink house, where a meeting of some of the minds occurred. We had a good talk about how to build on what has worked lately and how to move ahead in concert with each other.

As for the Dems vs. the Repubs or which Dem is better than another, I have only this to say:

In a world full of hate and pettiness, please do not let us succumb to that. Every Wed. night the Freepers stand outside the Code Pink house (which is in my neighborhood) and spew vitriol, so the neighbors will want Code Pink out. (It hasn't worked, and tonight a cold hard rain fell on them; thank you, God). But listening to the stupid hatred coming out of the mouths of these poor f**ks makes you realize how dumb pettiness sounds.

Every person here has the right to support whomever they like, and to work their asses off for that candidate. And never, NEVER try to destroy the hope of a fellow patriot, no matter how far a reach such hopes may appear to be.

Let us please agree that whatever one citizen does to restore democracy, to give comfort to the hopeless and the victims, to promote peace, or to take back Congress is to be celebrated and supported.

I worked very hard for John Kerry and I still feel my heart sink when I see untruths and nastiness about him. I call fellow activists out on lies. But I would not ever put them down for all they did for Dean or Kucinich. Not. ever.

Tonight I sat in a room of activists planning another in a seemingly endless series of actions. But what made tonight different was the solid knowledge that the picture of Desiree Farooz looking at Condeleeza Rice, and holding up bloody hands is seared into the minds and hearts of anyone who saw it. And lots saw it.

It is a picture of someone WINNING, of someone overcoming injustice and speaking truth to power. It is a picture of someone not backing down, not ever, and of the subsequent effort to take her down. Desiree is going to pay for that triumph, and we who understand that must take up her mantle.

A picture is worth a thousand words, they say. How many actions is it also worth?

Keep on, everyone. Touch everyone you see. Tell them the truth. Fight. HARD.

Karen:

I agree 100%. But it does underline the question of if we can't get beyond the Turkey Armenia issues from 1915 what can we do?

That was a rhetorical question, whatever that means.

Chuck, pro-Azeri, in Houston

Karen:

I just finished reading Conrad's "Victory" which I think was also published in 1915 and I just got back from Jakarta for what that is worth (in the "Victory" sphere of events). Where are we? Where are we going?

Chuck in Houston

All happy famillies are the same. Each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

Jones for Senate, Martin for Congress, and Pedro for inside sales....

And where that leaves Axel and the poor violin player I have no idea

Not to mention Davidson.

Chuck

I will continue to vote for deserving Democrats, including one (Ron Shepston) who is running in my hardcore Republican congressional district (CA-42).

But they'll have to earn my vote. Shepston gets my vote because he earned it through his positions, not because he's a Dem.

NMP

Our winner takes all system does encourage two all-encompassing parties, as opposed to many smaller parties that can work as coalition partners. Good point you made.

The Republicans are much better at organizing the base than the Democrats, at least in my state. The Dems need to remember their base as they move to encompass the so-called moderates.

Chuck,

We went to see the new documentary, Meeting Resistance, last night.

http://www.meetingresistance.org

Afterwards, a couple of folks asked the filmmakers about Turkey and the Kurds and about partition and all of that stuff. Here is what they told us:

When you see the resistance that goes on inside Iraq, you realize that hatred of us and what we have wrought there overcomes a great deal of what might be fairly petty disagreements. From Raed Jarrar, from the Iraqi women who came over here, and from these folks last night, everyone says the same:

The Sunnis and Shi'as can make the country work, and in fact, are intermarried and share communities still. The Kurds have also, to a large extent, become part of the fabric of a larger sense of Iraq.

WE ARE THE PROBLEM, WE ARE THE TARGETS.

See this film. No one could watch it and not fully understand why we can do no good there, and still can do a great deal more harm--to them and to ourselves.

Actually, come to think on it, Axel is a Blogger and Davidson is a Moderator.

Chuck in Houston

NMP, Chuck

The Greens do have serious power at the local level in Northern California.

Meanwhile, the American Independents outnumber Democrats in many parts of Southern California, including mine.

Third parties are far from dead. The Republicans rely on American Independent voters - and their values - for their dominance of Southern California politics.

Again, I will happily vote for a Democrat who shares my values and who stands for what is right. As Christy says, this is about right vs. wrong, not about political parties.

Karen

As long as we've got Blackwater shooting up Iraqis at will (and shoving Iraqi family cars aside if they drive too slow), we will never win the Iraqi hearts and minds.

We have an occupation, not a liberation. If we went to liberate Iraq from Saddam, Iraq would have gone back to local control years ago. It's all about the oil.

South Korea just said it will extend its Iraqi mission for another year, though at reduced staff levels. I will renew my vow to boycott anything from Samsung and Hyundai.

Ally:

When you say: "they'll have to earn my vote," here is my response. For good or ill, we have a winner-take-all system in America. That means that in each Congressional District, and each State there will be one and two Representatives and Senators respectively. That covers the Legislative. For the executive, there will be one POTUS. And as far as the Judicial goes, that will be a deal worked out between the Executive and the Legislative. That is the system we have. Each House, Senate and POTUS seat is winner-take-all. So my question back to you is, who is that "they" that have to earn your vote?

Ally:

Wake me up when serious power in Mendicino plus the rest of the "independents" start to challenge, say, agricultural subsidies.

Chuck in Houston

In a meaningful way (by that I mean in a way that wins elections).

Please, folks, understand me right. I am not trying to be rude; I am trying to be realistic.

Chuck in Houston

Chuck

I refuse to believe that I have to vote for someone just because of his/her party affiliation.

If I lived in South Dakota, am I supposed to vote for Stephanie Herseth, who is as virulent a homophobe (and a conservative) as any Republican? That's one Democrat who will (and shall) never get support from me.

As for Greens in NorCal, I believe there are some city council members in places like Berkeley. Greens outnumber Republicans in some of these places. They can't do squat on a nationwide level, but they can definitely set the tone locally and set an example for more "mainstream" towns to follow. Same with American Independents down here - they run very few candidates of their own, but are a significant influence on Republican politics - and Republicans in Orange County are national trendsetters, remember that.

Ideally, I would like the Dems to co-opt some of the Green ideas, and at the same time, support policies that are both pro-small business and pro-consumer. Unfortunately, it's too much to ask for in my state.

Ally:

To me, it comes down to the basic fact that our system is a party, winner-take-all, system. If I am wrong, you are probably right; and vice-versa. So I guess it's no use us discussing it further and we'll both just hope for the best in our own ways.

But just in case I'm wrong, let me try this. You don't like some Dem from, say, SD. But due to the fact that that Dem won, the Dems have the majority in the House, instead of the GOP (I suppose you agree with me that the Greens do not have a snowball's chance). Does that mean nothing to you? Can you really discern no difference between Tom Delay and Nancy Pelosi?

Chuck in Houston

John Cornyn and John Kerry?

eeeuwwww, Jon Cornyn.....................

and you know my passion for JK.

no contest there!

But please, read the story I just put up on the Main page, and especially, say hello to the great kids who wrote the second part of the story--their own.

The Polar Bears were funky and kicking up a storm at the Cannon House Office Building!!!!

Pelosi was safe and secure in the knowledge that the war in Iraq would continue and that impeachment was off the table and, in fact, on the ground next to the trash bin. She must also be reassured that Bush will veto everything passed by the Democrats and little or nothing will be accomplished between now and Jan. 2009.

Chuck said:

In a meaningful way (by that I mean in a way that wins elections).

@@@@@@

I would say "buying the election" - not winning.

And we have the best democracy that money can buy!!!!

Screw Up Your Courage America!
by Kevin Gosztola

“World War I. German Soldiers wrote poems about the bravery of British Grunts. Admired them. Almost as much as they laughed at the British High Command who just wasted those same Grunts by the hundred-thousand. A German General wrote, “Nowhere else have I seen such Lions led by such Lambs.” -Dr. Malley (Robert Redford, Lions for Lambs)
Only I could have experienced the emotional rollercoaster that occurred tonight before, during, and after attending a special free screening at my college of Lions for Lambs, which turned out to be one of the best executed films on politics, media, and military that I have ever seen.
I walked in having politicized this event in my mind even when I have a deep reluctance when it comes to showing up to events and politicizing them specifically. I planned on getting 50-100 signatures for Dennis Kucinich, signatures which are desperately needed here in Illinois right now because 3,000-5,000 signatures must be delivered to Springfield, Illinois so that he can be on the ballot in the February 5th primary. But I let my reservations get the best of me and walked home afterwards in the rain cursing at my failure.
The film is a must-see and an opportunity for college students like me to really go after people and get them to change their apathetic or shallow ways of thinking by addressing military recruitment, the draft, poverty, and what it means to be a good citizen. I could go through and tell you all the ideas that came through in the film, but I do not wish to give away the intricacies and underlying messages within that are staggeringly profound. However, I will impart one message to you that struck me so hard that I am deeply unhappy that I did not act after hearing it
http://www.opednews.com:80/articles/opedne_kevin_go_071022_screw_up_your_courag.htm

Karen

Read the story on the four Canadians.

America just got stupid and created four more people who will no longer like it. (I refused to say "us" because I no longer consider myself part of this decaying empire.)

Boycott of the worst puppet nations of the Republican fascists is underway. I ask the four Canadians to do everything they can to throw out the Harper government, or I will have to include Canada in the boycott.

Ok, I will ask it then.

What is the difference between Tom Delay and Nancy Pelosi?

They both have ultimatly used their power and position to shield bush from ANY accountability. They both have bent over backwards to give him EVERYTHING he wants.

They both talk a good game, but both of them would rather throw their own party under the bus than confront a tyrant.

Sure Nancy uses words like 'oppose' and 'condemn', but somehow she never actually winds up opposing or condemning anything. But let another dem come out and speak truth to power, like Stark, and all the sudden Nancy throws her wieght around to MAKE HIM APOLOGIZE.

At this point, the differences between Tom Delay and Nancy Pelosi is just semantics. Same wine, different label.

You can get all upset at me comparing the two, but I would say that anger would be better directed at Nancy Pelosi. It is her that could actually change things, yet she refuses.

She would rather risk bowing her head to a tyrant than stopping him. In the end, Tom Delay and her probably have more in common with each other than either of them resembles one of us.

It is too late. We are out of time.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson will announce “new sanctions against Iran” today that “accuse” the Quds division of the Revolutionary Guard Corps of supporting terrorism and “the entire Revolutionary Guard Corps of proliferating weapons of mass destruction.”

http://thinkprogress.org/

Christy
Not satisfied with Pelosi but I'm going to leave most of my anger directed at Tom Delay and the neocons. Will work FOR stuff that
Pelosi and Reid have not got done though.

By the way. On the 'But Turkey won't ally with Iran against the Kurds'.

Hell yes they will. 3 reasons off the top.

1. Both countries have tried at different intervals to liqudate the Kurds, and it would finally settle the score once and for all to both jump them.

2. Turkey is now openly confronting our own military, they want and need backup and the enemy of my enemy is my friend. It is in both their best political/military interest.

3. Do you actually think Iran is going to let Turkey go in there and singlehandedly snatch up all that oil, I mean land, I mean airspace....? No way in hell.

There were already rumors of Turkey cutting deals with Iran. In these times the rumors actually have more credibility than anything the WH or congress says.

What we are seeing is the first stages of a World War.

It's great the prosecuting background Kerry is bringing to the Blackwater issue, and Waxman has been doing great work all along.

Those who fault those who voted for the IWR (which I indeed do) need to remember that Waxman voted for it too.

With each person we get a "mixed bag" because we are all gonna differ as to how we feel on issues & no one will be a perfect fit.

White House Feels Waxman's Oversight Gaze
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/102507K.shtml
Jonathan Weisman, of The Washington Post, reports: "Waxman has become the Bush administration's worst nightmare: a Democrat in the majority with subpoena power and the inclination to overturn rocks. But in Waxman the White House also faces an indefatigable capital veteran -- with a staff renowned for its depth and
experience -- who has been waiting for this for 14 years."

TImes change. I love Robert Byrd and Ted Kennedy and they have "histories" but I don't dwell on them. I like Bill Clinton and Al Gore more since they are out of office.

I for one am not leaving the Democratic party but I kind of cringe to think of all the infighting that will occur over the next year with the election coming up!

& I really have an allergic reaction when I hear Bush talk about "Democratic" change in Cuba etc. and then he talks about the "Democrat" party. & we live in a "Republic" for sure now - instead of the United States, it's the Untied States, with the federal government that drowned in a bathtub.

You don't train preachers to 'calm' the population in the event of a National Security lockdown unless you are planning for a lockdown.

And you don't build bombs like this unless you intend to use them.

'"It's kind of strange," Pike said. "It sends a signal that you are preparing to bomb Iran, and if you were actually going to bomb Iran I wouldn't think you would want to announce it like that."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3771522&page=1

Christy
Someone just sent me that same ABC article about the bunker busters & someone else said, 'That just ruined my day."

NPR sounded ominous re Iran too with Condi setting up terms they won't meet so that'll be the exuse to go in - 2nd phase is to try to convince China & Russia to go along with our sanctions & support them - yeah right - failing that, maybe the plan that has been laid along (Cheney) will be put into action.

Antiwar marches on Saturday, but looks here like mostly progressive & lefty groups - where are the masses? Don't they care?

OMG LOOK! On Foe News, no less!

Because there is no shortage of things to yell about regarding the War on Terror, Iraq, Afghanistan, Homeland Security, and so on, deciding what to write about is always fun.

This week, I was going to yell about how the Bush administration leaked classified information — again — but we've been there before. Then, I thought I might write about Blackwater, but compared to so many things, Blackwater looks like back water.

I bet the few of you that read this stuff thought I would write about my short stint in the sights of those who complained or used my column last week for their own purposes. Nah, it ain't going to happen. Those who were yelling or using me on their TV shows — without bringing me on to comment — are hardly worth the print space. I am not that big a deal. Besides, these things are of little consequence when you realize how we missed, squandered, screwed up, made a mess of and were massively risk adverse — again — when we did not kill Usama bin Laden in Afghanistan just two short months ago.

We know, with a 70 percent level of certainty — which is huge in the world of intelligence — that in August of 2007, bin Laden was in a convoy headed south from Tora Bora. We had his butt, on camera, on satellite. We were listening to his conversations. We had the world’s best hunters/killers — Seal Team 6 — nearby. We had the world class Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) coordinating with the CIA and other agencies. We had unmanned drones overhead with missiles on their wings; we had the best Air Force on the planet, begging to drop one on the terrorist. We had him in our sights; we had done it. Nice job again guys — now, pull the damn trigger.

Unbelievably, and in my opinion, criminally, we did not kill Usama bin Laden.

You cannot make this crap up; truth is always stranger and more telling than fiction. Our government, the current administration and yes, our military leaders included, failed to kill bin Laden for no other reason than incompetence.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304306,00.html

WHAT?! WHAT?!

NMP

Re: the March on Saturday

Yes, plenty of socialists and anarchists marching, based on what I've seen. Also immigrant and LGBT groups.

It IS a lefty thing though. Two years ago, when the Downing Street Memo events were held, I saw NO Asians other than myself at the Los Angeles event. This in a city that has tons of Asians. Our Asians, Koreans and Vietnamese in particular, are THAT conservative.

As for CodePink, as much as I love hanging out with them and respect them, I am starting to feel that their civil disobedience tactics are backfiring. I am still marching with Jodie Evans & Co. though this Saturday.

NMP

The masses won't care until gas hits $10/gallon and good start being rationed.

People did care about the likes of WWII and other previous major war efforts, because they were collective sacrifices.

Not this war. Only the poor sacrifice. The rich continue to drive 13MPG Lexus SUVs as if there is no tomorrow. And there won't be a tomorrow at this pace.

On another topic...

I noticed that the seventh inning stretch has permanently been replaced by "God Bless America" during the World Series, as has been the case since 9/11.

This is an utter insult on whatever divine being that's up there. A just God will never bless the sorry shell of an empire that this country has become. Only the twisted, sick, death-indulging God that the Dominionists believe in would bless the USA as is today.

And as for the World Series itself? It's between Boston, whose ace Curt Schilling is a total Bushie, and Colorado, the most theocratic team in the Majors. If baseball is no more than a theocratic exercise, this country is truly f'ed.

Mann Coulter sent out her congratulations for IslamFascism Awareness week and said that anyone who doesn't support it is in league with the terrorists. She also offered free copies of her book, which is how she gets to the top of the best seller lists.

Kayakbiker wrote this morning about Michelle Malkin, who he considers despicable and a complete sell-out. Speaking of antiwar and prolabor marches, there are also plenty of Filipino worker groups represented here. Hope this counterbalances people like Malkin a little.

http://www.silencedmajority.blogs.com - 2nd story. First one is about reggae.

Deja vu

Bush To Unveil "Unprecedented" Unilateral Sanctions Against Iran
U.S. to impose new sanctions on Iran
Measures target Revolutionary Guard Corps, Quds Force
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21463453/

US soldiers shy from battle in Iraq
Dahr Jamail

Iraq war veterans now stationed at a base here in upstate New York say that morale among US soldiers in the country is so poor, many are simply parking their Humvees and pretending to be on patrol, a practice dubbed "search and avoid" missions. Phil Aliff is an active duty soldier with the 10th Mountain Division stationed at Fort Drum. He served nearly one year in Iraq from August 2005 to July 2006, in the areas of Abu Ghraib and Fallujah, both west of Baghdad. "Morale was incredibly low," said Aliff, adding that he joined the military because he was raised in a poor family by a single mother and had few other prospects. "Most men in my platoon in Iraq were just in from combat tours in Afghanistan."...
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IJ26Ak07.html

Remember Paul Wellstone

It's been 5 years

Here's a bad thought:

Maybe the reason Pelosi and the dems are not doing anything on Iraq is because they want Hillary too be the nominee, and if they do, then she'll be seen as out of step with the party.

Hmmm.

You know what? It doesn't matter anymore WHY.

Their petty, stupid, calculating, political, idiotic REASONS are their damn problem. Our nation is dying.

And I don't know about yall, but I am f*cking sick, and tired of their petty pathetic triangulating excuses of why they can not keep our nation from DYING!

'They are advocates. We are the leaders!'

AND, I am getting f*cking sick and tired of Nancy Pelosi and her cheshire cat grin as she HELPS DISMANTLE THE US CONSTITUTION. The one last hope we have to STOP THIS!.. She sweeps away.

Does that mean I am not toeing the 'party line'...? You know what, I don't care. The republicans acted just that way and look what they have become. Goose stepping morons.

God every time I think of that woman I seethe. How can this be we are watching this nation die right in front of us?

Advocates? No chick! We...are The People. And Nancy Pelosi swore an oath to SERVE US.

I don't care if she is a democrat or a freaking staircase for that matter. If she wants to go down with bush, so be it.

Her dismantling of the US Constitution, her sweeping large and important pieces of it away as if we do not know what she took, it will not be forgotten.

The excuses she made for doing it will be for future historians to worry about. Right now, her excuses have no merit whatsoever.

She makes me sick.

Carol/Christy:

Pelosi et al can do very little about Iraq -- the executive branch is constitutionally in the saddle when it comes to the execution of foreign policy and warfare. That is a feature of our constitution. Back when it was signed, things moved more slowly. I really don't see any constitutional remedy outside of the electoral process, with all of its drawbacks.

Chuck in Houston

See I can still get you on site Christy Girl, tell me if it is okay or if I have to delete.

Chuck said:

Carol/Christy:

Pelosi et al can do very little about Iraq -- the executive branch is constitutionally in the saddle when it comes to the execution of foreign policy and warfare. That is a feature of our constitution.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@

The funding for the war can be stopped.

The authorization of force can be rescinded.

Bush and Cheney can be censured.

An Impeachment inquiry can begin.

Pelosi has been afraid to do any of these things;

Hillary is worse - she supports Bush's war...

And as for the World Series itself? It's between Boston, whose ace Curt Schilling is a total Bushie, and Colorado, the most theocratic team in the Majors. If baseball is no more than a theocratic exercise, this country is truly f'ed.
October 25, 2007 3:17 PM

@@@@@@@

LOL!!! Let the baseball primadonnas do a year's tour of duty in Iraq.....

Ralpheh:

I like points 2-4, although the net effect, IMHO, would be zero, which goes back to my point about the way the constitution is set up. Sound and fury signifying nothing. Point one is like playing chicken -- no responsible congress could do that -- talk about the law of unintended consequences! Lord knows what would fly off the hook if we suddenly defunded our military. I think I would invest insurvivalist kit if that was to happen....

Chuck in Houston

Ralpheh:

Further to my prior, on Point 2 (rescind authorization), I like that.

On 3 (censure): on what ground exactly?

On 4 (impeachment): on what charge?

Chuck in Houston

Ralpheh:

And continuing in the same vein, the reason I like two (rescinding authority), is that that falls square inside the constitutional role of congress, which is to decalre war. Where we have really messed up is letting our country commit to major military actions without a declration of war. That is where we loose legislative accountability.

Chuck in Houston

Game theory and contracts is what I am hung up on. Help me Fe!

I guess that is just an occupational hazard for me, as I do procurement and logistics in the oil field (currently SE Asia).

Chuck in Houston, the center of the US Oil Business! And NASA! Go LBJ! Matt Buzzby! and Doris Day! Dig it! (obscure Beatles reference).

Chuck,

I'll say the same thing to you that I said last night to my friend who is a congressman in PA and was saying this is the way our government is set up.

They should be taking the votes anyway on all of this stuff. Even if they know they won't win, they should take the votes. They should be brave enough to put themselves on the line and say what they stand for.

If it does nothing else, it will prove that it is indeed the republicans who are blocking progress.

Right now, we just look like a bunch of meek pathetic bodies who are just going along with whatever Bush wants.

I am sick of my congressman saying he won't vote for impeachment because they don't have the votes to win. That's crap and it's a cop out. It's like saying you're not going to play the other team (name your sport) because you know you'll lose. Pathetic.

Show some spine. Take the damn vote. Go on record.

And I don't care if that's not how things have been historically done. Everything is different now.

Carol:

Impeachment on what charge?

Chuck in Houston

Carol:

And do you realize that if Bush is impeached by the House and convicted in the Senate, that Cheney will be POTUS? Where does that get us?

Chuck n Houston

Ralpheh
"Hillary supports the war" is incorrect and an oversimplification.

Carol:

On the sports analogy, I'd like to respectfully disagree. That's like saying "I'm going for the field goal" on fourth and one, for example, instead of going for the first down.

Chuck in Houston (Punting like a Big Dog)

I mean, there's tactics, there's strategy, there's battles, and there's wars. And so often, stumbling across the finish line, we all forget what the race was on for in the first place.

NMP:

Hillary doesn't support Bush's war??

Give me the complicated, complex, nuanced,flip-flopping, tortured, triangulated version of Hillary's policy...

Here is Hillary, in 2003, sounding just like George Bush on Iraq:

Here is the history of Hillary flip-flops on Iraq:

Ralpheh:

Also, as a simple matter of semantics, I'd have to say that it is incorrect to characterize teh war in Iraq (I assume that is the war you ar referring to) as "Bush's" war. It's our war, whether we like it or not. We fight it, pay for it, and pay for the consequences. We own this dog, baby! In fact, about the last person I can visualize fighting this war is George Bush! Hah! Other than landing on the flight-deck in pilot-due togs a la Tom Cruise under the banner "Mission Accomplished!"

Chuck in Houston

PS: My dad volunteered the day after Pearl Harbor

Ralpheh

You can never trust a politician to do what they say they'll do, as Mike Gravel says, but here is her plan:

1. Phased redployment - Defense & Vets Affairs Depts provide for high quality health care for returning troops including Guards & Reserves

2. Secure stability as troops come home - aid to stabilize Iraq, getting it into hands of Iraqi people, appoint peace broker UN Rep like in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo

3. Diplomacy in the region - stablization group of key allies, other global powers, bordering states - developing strategy for stable Iraq is what they would be charged with -
Noninterference (UN works w/Iraq's neighbors to not get involved
in civil war
Mediation - among sectarian groups for compromises
Reconstruction funding - pledges from others
Supports diplomacy for multibillion dollar intl effort (funded by donor states) under UN High Commissioner for Refugees, realizes we will still have strategic interests in the region, still need to address terrorism in the region, promises to send diplomatic agents in before she is inaugurated

Whether she can do it I don't know but I heard her talk about it and took notes.

Further to my prior, on Point 2 (rescind authorization), I like that.

On 3 (censure): on what ground exactly?

@@@@@@

Censure:

1) lying to Congress - in regard to Iraq's nuclear weapons program (Cheney made this claim numerous times, Bush used the claim in the SOTU which the CIA had struck from two previous speeches)

2) withholding classified material from Congress with regard to Iraq's WMD

3) partial and improper "leaking" of classified material (Valerie Plame leak)

4) breaking the FISA law and failing to inform Congress of the new NSA wiretapping program

5) the unconstitutional "signing statements"

6) the unconstitutional "national security letters" which are basically a warrantless searches of anyone's personal financial and business records.

7) withholding documents from Congress; retro-actively classifying documents

8) I suspect that Bush ordered the attorney firings - this was improper if not obstruction of justice.

Chuck,

They should impeach Cheney first. But they won't do that either.

They haven't even censured either of them.

These two crooks have lied this country to the brink of WW3, continue to do so on a daily basis. They have dismantled the consitution while the democrats stand by and watch.

We voted dems into the majority to take care of that, and they haven't.

And I'm not as anti-Hillary as Ralph, but she just voted to give Bush the power to go to begin the move to a war of agression with Iran.

You can have her.

Ralpheh:

I'm not sure why you need NMP to characterize Senator Clinton's views on Iraq, prior to the war. She does it quite ably on her own in the first video you posted above (Senator Clinton, I mean). On the second one, Clinton didn't get to say much, some unknown narrator over-rode the whole deal, and in a way that seemed to me to be, well, propagandistic.

By the way, do you have a similar video or Code Pink talking with Bush or Delay or Guiliani? I'd love to see that Ralpheh!

Chuck in Houston

It's our war, whether we like it or not. We fight it, pay for it, and pay for the consequences. We

@@@@

Nope - Bush's War

1) Congress did not declare war

2) Bush lied about Iraq to the American People

3) I, and many others, NEVER supported the war and protested against it in 2002-03...

4) Bush ordered the attack

The buck stops with Bush re. Iraq as the American involvement in Vietnam stops with LBJ...

Carol/Ralpheh:

I must have missed something, but where in the constitution does it say you can impeach a President and Vice President for lying? Impeaching an elected official means overriding the votes of the majority of the citizens of the US. That is serious business. I like the concept of "High Crimes and Misdemeanors." But this needs specifics. I thought the impeachment of Clinton was a travesty. I vowed never again to support anyone from the GOP until the leadership of that party apologized for that travesty. And I won't. I'm stubborn that way. On the other hand, I will not support the impeachment of a Republican without a charge much more specific than "he" (or she) "is an idiot." It is a matter of principle for me, or, as Christy would have it, a matter of protecting the constitution. You cannot impeach on innuendo (actually, you can, if you have a simple majority in the house, as Tom Delay proved, but, then again, I am not a Tom Delay kind of guy). And, unfair as it may be, that is all we have.

Chuck in Houston

Ralpheh:

I don't see Bush fighting this war. I see my daughter's music teacher's son dying in this war. So I look at this as our war, not his. That may be stupid but that is the way I see it.

Chuck in Houston

Chuck -

You can have Hillary - Defense contractors and Republicans are pouring money into her campaign.

Republican Lite... not worth voting for

BTW - her awful vote on Iraq in 2002 proves her as incompetent and war-mongering as Dumbya Bush.

NO GO - HILLARY: YOU ARE DISMISSED

CArol:

She also signed on with Webb to support a measure explicitly banning the initiation of military acts against Iran without the approval of congress.

Chuck in Houston

After disagreeing with Chuck on a bunch of issues, now I agree with him.

Impeachment IS overturning the people's will. And remember that W did win by 3 million votes - that's tamper-proof margin, regardless of what happened in Ohio and Florida. And contrary to popular belief, W even carried California, or came very close - otherwise, he wouldn't have comforted those fire victims in Escondido today - he would've stayed away like NOLA.

W is a sorry excuse of a president. I know that. But the PEOPLE of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA chose him. They own him. They must put up with him.

There better be a VERY good excuse for impeachment. Lying alone is not enough. I do support impeaching the whole cabal, but the articles of impeachment better be absolutely damning.

Ralpheh:

I hope you are right and I can have Senator Clinton as my President. Not the worst outcome I could imagine and better than most....

Chuck in Houston

I must have missed something, but where in the constitution does it say you can impeach a President and Vice President for lying? Impeaching an elected official means overriding the votes of the majority of the citizens of the US. That is serious busine

@@@@@@

Lying to Congress in official documents and in official speeches - such as the state of the union - is a high crime, especially since it led to war... but you can quibble with constitutional scholars on that one..

Ally:

We were meant to agree to disagree to agree! I'm OK with it if you're OK with it!

Chuck in Houston

The theocrats' baseball game is back on...

"God Bless America" is back on...

I am NEVER watching another baseball game ever again.

Ralpheh:

So, chapter and verse, where is the lie under oath? Where is the exact crime? The state of the union is a speech -- all politicians lie in speeches, nd we can't impeach all of them all of the time or we wouldn't even have roads!

Chuck in Houston

Chuck, Ralpheh

Lying under oath became impeachable only when Bill Clinton was lying about his affair with Monica Lewinsky...

It's not fair. But the world is never fair.

Ally:

OK, I can't buy Dell's or Honda's or Toyota's or Fords or watch baseball (probably football) etc. -- what do you want from me? To be a survivalist in Mendicino? What would my daughter think? My wife? My co-workers?

I did quit smoking though!

Chuck in Houston

Impeachment IS overturning the people's will. And remember that W did win by 3 million votes - that's tamper-proof margin, regardless of what happened in Ohio and Florida. And contrary to popular belief, W even carried California, or came very close - ot

@@@@@@@

Impeachment is in the constitution for a reason

- and this president is out of control.

He is violating laws and the constitution; ignoring the treaties and the Geneva convetions; defining torture however he feels like; wire-tapping and data-mining and getting cell-phone information when he feels like it; ignoring the advice of his own justice department and trying to get hospitalized John Ashcroft to assent to his lousy decisions; making signing statements when he feels like disagreeing with Congress's laws... violating the Hatch act by using federal government facilities to further the Republican's election prospects...

So, chapter and verse, where is the lie under oath? Where is the exact crime? The state of the union is a speech -- all politicians lie in speeches, nd we can't impeach all of them all of the time or we wouldn't even have roads!

@@@@

All politicians aren't president

All politicians do not have war power authority...

But, Chuck, you quibble with the constitutional scholars on this one...

Plus I don't watch TV (not so much from principle as from laziness pluss being angry at the cable company -- so I get no reception other than PBS plus the dvd/video)

Ralpheh:

I would love few things better than to quibble with Constitutional Scholars, preferrably over a bottle of good Scotch, but I don't actually know any. Scholars, that is.

Chuck in Houston

Chuck: LOL

Seriously, I'll be fine with a Nokia phone in a Volkswagen. And running a Mac, as I do now.

As for sports, I prefer football - the European variety, which the rest of the world plays. :)

Ralpheh

The case can be built. But then again, it better be damning. You don't need a whole litany of reasons either. You just need one very damning reason that seriously compromises the integrity of the nation's so-called democracy.

By the way, under some of the reasons you name, Abraham Lincoln suspended the Constitution too, and should've been impeached. Same for FDR.

Yes Chuck,

quibbling about the constitution, lying, war, death and destruction

over Scotch is good fun indeed....

Ralpheh:

All politicians aren't president, true, but the president is a politician, so I guess one of us is missing something. My larger point is that our system is not a parliamentary one -- for better or for worse. Impeachment should not be used as a vote of confidence, in my opinion. I think it undermines our system to use impeachment as a vote of confidence, just as the GOP impeachment of President Clinton, to my mind, undermined our country. We have other remedies.

Chuck in Houston

Ralpheh:

Do you mean quibbling is fun or that war and death and destruction is fun? I don't follow you. I suppose you must have meant that quibbling is fun. Of course I don't know you but I would never suppose that you thought that war and death and destruction is fun, as such sentiments are contrary to basic human nature.

Chuc in Houston

Ralpheh:

By the way, could you please post that video where Giuliani talks with Code Pink? I missed that somehow.

Chuck in Houston, Texas

This is very good debate tonight - I am listening to DJ Vadim from the UK & enjoying reading people using logic, much moreso than many of our politicians do.

By the way, Kayakbiker started political photography when Paul Wellstone died - he went to his funeral and someone scowled at him - seems like it was Tom Delay (speak of the devil).

He has put up something commemorative at Docudharma - let me get the link.
http://www.docudharma.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1730

Wasn't there a song called "Think Pink" by the "Fabulous Poodles?"

What ever happened to Mark in Iowa anyway?

Chuck in Houston

Chuck!
The Fabulous Poodles showed up in a record store here once!
I was just thinking about all that stuff! Did you read Nyc's tribute to Jimmy Cliff's "The Harder They Come" soundtrack making Vanity Fair's top 10 movie soundtracks at http://www.silencedmajority.blogs.com (I could tinyurl it & be more discrete).

Also, speaking of Hillary Rodham Clinton, Elvis Costello just performed at her birthday bash
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2523298720071026
and when I was at the health club I saw that she is also supported by former Reagan-backer Merle Haggard.

I don't agree with everything the Clintons have done or proposed but I do think they are running a strong campaign. Someone will have to give a big gut punch in Iowa. Things will get interesting from here on out, regardless. I'm watching the wedgey votes (religious & gay) - some groups are more predictable but Iowa is touchy because it's one of only two states who have never had a woman Governor or Senator.

"Heck of a Job" don't you reckon Georgie?

$38M US Computer System Down for a Month in Iraq – No One Noticed

http://www.wandtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7261686

NMP:

I love Elvis Costello. Elvis is King. No you've got me started! I also like Jimmy Cliff -- used to play that with Lenny in fact:

Well the oppressors are trying to keep me done
Trying to make me feel like a clown
Well they think that they have got me on the run
I say forgive them Lord they know not what they've done
For as sure as the sun will shine
I'm gonna get my share now, what's mine
And the harder they come
The harder they fall,
One and all....

At least that is the way I sang it.

Chuck, ex-SE Portland (Cleveland HS '79 Hosford GS '75), in Houston

Chuck
You have to check our comments. Kayakbiker talked about dancing with me in dives to Nina Hagen and Nyc revealed that he was once seduced by one of those mannekins from the Robert Palmer video!

NMP:

That Hillary nutcracker thing is kind of weird -- reminds me of someone (John Stewart?) talking about Pelosi and rough sex. Where does that energy come from?

Chuck in Houston

Chuck
It's the Christmas gift for the man who has everything. Or it's the answer to the MoveRed guy who had the "Hillary Scares Me" sign.
Powerful women scare alot of men. US is one of the only developed countries where we haven't had a woman President. We have our lst woman Speaker of the House so high expectations, and in WA we have 2 female Senators and a female Governor who won on 3rd recount by only 131 votes. Dino Rossi just announced today he's challenging her & I am thinking about contacting her campaign to help or at least sending in a donation, might attend a fundraiser.

NMP:

Pressure Drop, Many Rivers to Cross -- you're killing me!

Chuck in Houston

There is always the Larry Craig doll.

All the Herobuilders dolls have the same buff body and they are rightwingers but I did buy the dolls that looked like Bin Laden and Saddam and also the Talking Howard Dean. I am a collector.

NMP:

Well, I suppose that's fair insofar as powerful men can scare a lot of women, so, as they say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander and turn about is fair play and etc. And who knows but that it doesn't make some kind of sense in the end.

More importantly:

There will be many (many) rivers (rivers) to cross

And I can't seem to find

My way over....

And it's only my will that keeps me alive
I've been licked, washed up for years
And I merely survive because of my pride

And also, I've got to say, Hillary has figured her hair out so much more than Larry Craig -- but Chicago vs. Boise -- go figure! On a somewhat more serious note, if you (Ralpheh?) can find a video of Craig condeming President Clinton (Mr., not Mrs.;on the impeachment thing) -- I saw that somewhere and it was down-right WEIRD. He wouldn't have lasted a second at my grade school.

They call it boom-chuck
Well it's the boom-chuck sound
In the country bars
And in the punk-rock town....

That was Billy's formualtion of red/blue east/west cascades if you think on it for a bit.

Ayway, off to bed, and I'll post it again, for old time's sake:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mlJjBYllQY

Which is Boom Chuck Rock (nothing to do with me directly)

http://news.yahoo.com/comics/uclickcomics/20071026/cx_nq_uc/nq20071026
Non Sequitur

"On 3 (censure): on what ground exactly?

On 4 (impeachment): on what charge?"

How bout this, censor him for the lies he and his secretaries have told congress.

And Impeach on High Crimes, including TREASON, and WAR CRIMES.

The leaking of Plames name was CLEARLY treason. HIGH TREASON. And the reason she was outed amounts to a war crime. All that followed has been a WAR CRIME.

Me too, I am sick of them saying 'I won't vote for it cause there is not enough votes for it.' That is a total cop out and the only excuse left for cowards who will not go on record to confront a monster.

One set of documents alone could CONVICT georgie of treason and war crimes.

The Downing Street Memos.

Throw in the Spanish memos and it becomes so airtight, not even georgies thugs can spin him out of it.

On the whole discussion about what Congress can and cannot do:

After the past few months, going in and out of Congress in various capacities, I can only say this:

They COULD do whatever they wanted, but they would have to BELIEVE differently.

Zombie Activisme
http://abracadanews.blogspot.com/

Chuck said:

Ralpheh:

By the way, could you please post that video where Giuliani talks with Code Pink? I missed that somehow.

Chuck in Houston, Texas

@@@@@

You know Chuck,

I do not have the Code Pink video of them talking to:

Kucinich
Gravel
Richardson
Edwards

or

Obama

Chuck,

I think you have hit upon a slogan for Hillary's campaign

"Not the worst outcome we could imagine - VOTE HILLARY"

BATON ROUGE --As the California wildfires continued to rage Thursday, so too did the political feud between President Bush and Gov. Kathleen Blanco that has smoldered since the federal government's slow response to Hurricane Katrina.

The latest flare-up came when Bush, while touring the California disaster area, took an apparent swipe at Blanco's post-Katrina leadership as he complimented California
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

"It makes a significant difference when you have somebody in the statehouse willing to take the lead," Bush said, according to the Associated Press.

The president's statement, coming from a White House that seems determined to avoid a repeat in California of the public-relations disaster that followed Katrina, brought a swift response from Blanco.

In a statement forwarded by her press office, Blanco noted that it took federal forces nearly a week to arrive in Louisiana after the storm. "I was the only game in town, leading for nearly a week without the president's help," Blanco said.

"Of all the lessons learned from Katrina now being put into place in California, I would hope the one he would remember is that politics has no place in any disaster," she added

http://blog.nola.com/times-picayune/2007/10/blanco_responds_to_bush_commen.html

NMP

I am so fed up with the UK that I'm skipping all UK-based musicians on the radio.

This includes not only troublemakers like Lily Allen and Amy Winehouse, but even good guys like Sir Elton John. I know that Sir Elton campaigned for Al Gore and does lots of great work, but even that's little comfort to me right now.

Christy

I'm sickened at W actively visiting the charred SoCal neighborhoods and comforting victims.

W does that ONLY when he knows he is in safe territory, with plenty of popular support. That's why he did staged visits in MS, and never visited NOLA.

And as you may already know, suburban San Diego is as pro-W as it gets.

I do appreciate trying to make up for the deficiencies of Katrina, but taking a swipe at Blanco was a cowardly act.

Ralpheh

In America's less than ideal voting system that pretty much forces choosing the lesser of the two evils, it may really come down to your slogan re: Hillary.

You know I don't like Hillary either. But I'll still take her over Rudy or any other Republican.

Billionaires Up, America Down
Holly Sklar writes for McClatchy-Tribune News Service:
"The 25th anniversary of the Forbes 400 isn't party time for America. We have a record 482 billionaires - and record foreclosures. We have a record 482 billionaires - and a record 47 million people without any health insurance. Since 2000, we have added 184 billionaires - and 5 million more people living below the poverty line."
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/102507M.shtml

Chuck:

Elizabeth Holzman, former congresswoman who sat on the House Judiciary Committee during the Nixon impeachment proceedings, can say it much better than Ralph or Christy or I.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060130/holtzman

I bet $20 bucks that the republican wannabes have never actually read the Constitution.

Seriously, after watching Mccain and rudy and Mitt and now Thompson, I seriously believe everyone of them should be publicly grilled on wether or not they have ever actually read the US Constitution.

"Former Sen. Fred Thompson (R-TN) said he doesn’t share Dick Cheney’s views of executive power. “No, I think the constitution in times of war, especially, is very definitive about that,” he said. “[I]t’s divided power in the constitution. Our founding fathers divided that up. … So no one branch of the government can misuse power.”

Duurrrr. He said 'Founding Fathers' that must mean he is smart or sumthin!

Duuuurrrrr.

What a bunch of punk ass chimps.

And for those of you who missed this:

"In this clip PBS' Bill Moyers sits down with The Nation's John Nichols and conservative constitutional attorney Bruce Fein from the American Freedom Agenda to discuss the crimes and abuse of power by George Bush and Dick Cheney and the need to impeach them both. While Nichols and Fein come from different ends of the political spectrum, they are in total agreement on this issue. Congress must put impeachment on the table because if they do nothing to stop Bush and Cheney now, we will see future presidents follow in their footsteps which would be a disaster for our country."

Ally
Your boycotts are very broad. I'll listen to music from any country if I feel ok about the musician & their politics. Otherwise would also have to boycott all American musicians.

Lately what's bugging me is square footage, like when Maria Carey's closet is more than 3x the size of my house, or when Pitt & Jolie rent this flat in Manhattan for $10,000/ month. Yes they have high incomes & the latter couple buys lifesize giraffes for former orphans from 3rd world countries, but enough (amterialism) is enough.

Actually, wouldn't mind at all if economies were smaller & more entertainment was homegrown. What I'm trying to do is support fewer big companies in general. & I'm debating whether to make a nice donation to our governor because I can't stand the Mafia-supported guy who is running against her.

In America's less than ideal voting system that pretty much forces choosing the lesser of the two evils, it may really come down to your slogan re: Hillary.

@@@@@@

If the Dems nominate someone - Hillary - that made all the same mistakes in Congress that Bush made as president, I don't think I will be voting for president in 2008. I am tired of losers and Republican lite candidates with absolutely no message or agenda....

Nuclear Submarine Commander Removed
Source: AP

Oct 25, 10:12 PM (ET)

By CHELSEA J. CARTER

LOS ANGELES (AP) - The commanding officer of the nuclear-powered submarine USS Hampton was relieved of his duty Thursday because of a loss of confidence in his leadership, the Navy said.

Cmdr. Michael B. Portland was relieved of duty after a U.S. Navy investigation found the ship failed to do daily safety checks on its nuclear reactor for a month and falsified records to cover up the omission.

"His oversight of the crew's performance did not identify these issues" on his own, Navy Lt. Alli Myrick, a public affairs officer, told The Associated Press. Portland's commanders identified the problems during a routine review, she said.

More....way at the bottom.....

The reported problems with procedures and record keeping in the Navy squadron follows an incident in August when a B-52 bomber was mistakenly armed with six nuclear-tipped cruise missiles and flown to a Louisiana base.

The mission from Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota was to ferry cruise missiles that had been slated for decommissioning but the warheads were supposed to have been removed beforehand.

The Air Force disciplined some 70 airmen.

More at article
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20071026/D8SGKRA81.htm...
Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20071026/D8SGKRA81.htm...

Maybe you're all seen the John McCain/Woodstock & Coulter spoof videos. If not, a shortcut is to click on my name. I had Firewalls on such things til now.