« Hammering... | Open Thread Main | The Machine »
218-203
The legislation, passed 218-203, was largely a symbolic jab at Bush, who already has begun reducing force levels but opposes a congressionally mandated timetable on the war.
The legislation, narrowly approved by 218 to 203 votes last night, was largely a symbolic move as the military "surge" that began in February has already begun winding down. Moreover, the Senate, where Democrats barely have a majority, is unlikely to pass the measure and lacks the votes to overcome a presidential veto.
The White House dismissed last night's vote as political posturing but Democrats said they needed to show their supporters they were still holding the president to account.
Looks like the Conservative and the "liberal press" both agree.
The final vote may have been 218-203 but both sides of the aisle wants to proclaim it "their victory."
Isn't it great that they found a way to let both sides win? But now we have the Senate to work on next so that they can come out with their 'symbolic' victory.
Getting the troops home will be a victory for the troops and it won't be "symbolic" to them. So let's get movin' on this.
124 Comments
Leave a comment
Not registered? Click on 'Sign-in' above and then select 'Sign up' in the lower right corner. Don't forget to click on the link in the confirmation email that will be sent to your email address.
There is virtually ZERO CHANCE this will go all the way, and even if it does, it still won't matter the moment it gets in front of georgie.
I mean, imagine that, Congress finally puts some bite in their bark, and it don't matter. Congress is passing laws again, laWs that will never be allowed to pass, and if by some miracle it does pass...so what? They passed one about 'benchmarks' and look how much impact that had. 0. Zilch. Absolutamente nada.
Congress finally gets around to acting right, but it is a little freaking late.
It is pathetic, It is like watching muzzled dogs trying to bite the hand that is killing them.
He should be and could be impeached for this alone.
"But earlier this month Damon Poeter wrote for an online marketing trade publication, ChannelWeb Network: "When Congress asked about 5 million executive branch e-mails that went missing, a White House lawyer pointed the finger at an outside IT contractor.
"The only problem? No such IT contractor exists"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/11/13/BL2007111300956_pf.html
"A lot of people seem confused about this, so it's worth pointing out that there are two entirely different sets of missing e-mails: These and the ones that top White House aides including Karl Rove intentionally sent and received using their Republican National Committee e-mail accounts even while knowing full well that circumventing the White House servers for official business was a violation of federal law."
These bastards are openly destroying evidence of WAR CRIMES AND TREASON.
And We, just have to sit here and watch no one able to do anything about it.
Mornin' all, Lori P. is off to her hearing for her arrest-for-sitting-there-with-her-hands-in-her-lap.
Meanwhile, the REAL criminals....
well, you all know.
Also, the Ontario Four car is still being held because now it is accused of brushing up against an officer as it allegedly fled the scene of a crime that happened in DC while it was parked in a 7-11 in Pennsylvania. Receipts in the car, with time stamps.
Abu Ghraib was no worse than a fraternity hazing, but peaceful protests? TERRIZM!!
Karen. have you ever seen Pitch Black with Vin Diesel? (I highly recommend if you haven't).
Anyways, in one scene, this mercenary approaches Diesels charachter, Riddick, and starts asking him which of the others in the group they should feed to the monsters, as a distraction, so the rest could run for it. Riddick was like 'That's nice.'
And the merc tells him on the battlefield it is called 'triage'.
Riddick says, 'They kept calling it murder when I did it.'
If they can base their policy on '24', we should base ours on 'Pitch Black'.
Christy
The problem is that life is imitating art.
By the way, watch for the Brian De Palma movie "Redacted" - that is supposed to have O'Reilly all upset. He noted the similarities between the rape/murder of a village girl by soldiers in Vietnam (had already made a movie about that) and in Iraq (now he's made the sequel).
I guess there, art is imitating life - but many want to ban it.
Check out the bridge players who got in trouble for exhibiting an antiBush sign in China
http://www.silencedmajority.blogs.com
Life never...NEVER, imitates art.
Art always reflects life. In all aspects.
The problem with art, is that even torture is considered an 'art'.
It takes great skill, imagination, stamina, self control, and a deep understanding of the human psyche to be able to torture someone else. All the same things it takes to effectively move my hand across the canvas.
The republicans are not playing out 24. 24 is a reflection of them, playing out their logic and making their crimes all pat and neat and socially acceptable. Even hip.
After spending as much time in the hospital as I have this past few weeks, I am more convinced than ever that the best thing that could happen to this country right now is for every citizen to shoot the living daylights out of their television sets.
Opinions really ARE like a-holes... everybody is one.
To me, our situation actually resembles Pitch Black more than 24.
Stranded on a dead planet, traumatized, people are dying, murderers in our midst, freaky things happening in the sky, and the monsters are coming!
Yup, that pretty much sums up life as we know it.
I think it is perhaps one of the best movies I have ever seen, and I don't usually get into sci-fi or monster movies. This one though, instant classic.
And the fact Riddick just makes you want to lick the TV screen helps. Jack Bauer is a 90lb weakling.
And a lush.
Monkey... You can shoot my tv, but I doubt I would notice until the kids started crying.
Good to see you up and eeeking this morning.
Thanks C... feels good to eek away, although re-engaging so soon in the complete and utter mess that has been made of this country may not be the best thing for my new model ticker! ;-)
Monkey,
I would like to introduce you to my little friend...
Indole 3 Carbinol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indole-3-carbinol
I stumbled across it one day researching a lotion that radically and instantly changed the texture of my skin.
And now I take it in a pill. Every day.
I researched it pretty well and it is nothing less than an incredible advancement.
AND...it is a natural substance, you can order it pretty cheap from any large online pharmacy.
Ask your doctor about it. Seriously.
For you ladies I also highly recommend looking it up.
I started losing wieght as soon as I started taking it. My skin changed, and I heal much faster from cuts and colds.
And, I just 'feel better' after I take it. Like what you would think an anti-depressant should do but never does.
No. Not the Fountain of Youth, but something like it.
Every day I take it, is a good day for me.
Oncall, would you like to make like a billion dollars?
Formulate a lotion with I3C in it. The other company that combined it into a lotion, was conglomerated to death. It no longer exists, they no longer make it. No back stock available. I know cause I looked.
If someone does start producing it again, I will buy as much of it as I can without starving the children.
Hands down you will have a better product than Dove or Oil of Olay combined.
Christy
Interesting .. I get pretty much the same effect from mass cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage.
Monkey
Thank you - as I have said many times, I quit in 1991 during the Gulf War and never went back.
Kill Your Television - for a million reasons
No Remembrance, No Remorse for the Fallen of Iraq
Iraq War (The Great Footage Ever!)
The Iraq War: Legal or Illegal?
John Pilger
On Remembrance Day 2007 – Veterans Day in America – the great and the good bowed their heads at the Cenotaph. Generals, politicians, newsreaders, football managers and stock-market traders wore their poppies. Hypocrisy was a presence. No one mentioned Iraq. No one uttered the slightest remorse for the fallen of that country. No one read the forbidden list.
The forbidden list documents, without favor, the part the British state and its court have played in the destruction of Iraq.
Here it is: 1. Holocaust denial:
On 25 October, Dai Davies MP asked Gordon Brown about civilian deaths in Iraq. Brown passed the question to the Foreign Secretary, David Miliband, who passed it to his junior minister, Kim Howells, who replied: "We continue to believe that there are no comprehensive or reliable figures for deaths since March 2003." This was a deception. In October 2006, the Lancet published research by Johns Hopkins University in the US and al-Mustansiriya University in Baghdad which calculated that 655,000 Iraqis had died as a result of the Anglo-American invasion. A Freedom of Information search revealed that the government, while publicly dismissing the study, secretly backed it as comprehensive and reliable. The chief scientific adviser to the Ministry of Defense, Sir Roy Anderson, called its methods "robust" and "close to best practice." Other senior governments officials secretly acknowledged the survey's "tried and tested way of measuring mortality in conflict zones." Since then, the British research polling agency, Opinion Research Business, has extrapolated a figure of 1.2 million deaths in Iraq Thus, the scale of death caused by the British and US governments may well have surpassed that of the Rwanda genocide, making it the biggest single act of mass murder of the late 20th century and the 21st century.
2 LOOTING
http://www.antiwar.com/pilger/?articleid=11910
THE US military is experiencing a "suicide epidemic" with veterans killing themselves at the rate of 120 a week, according to an investigation by US television network CBS. At least 6256 US veterans committed suicide in 2005 - an average of 17 a day - the network reported, with veterans overall more than twice as likely to take their own lives as the rest of the general population. While the suicide rate among the general population was 8.9 per 100,000, the level among veterans was between 18.7 and 20.8 per 100,000....
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22762457-5005961,00.html
I won't be watching the so-called debates anymore, either.
All of the current candidates are a joke, and we're not gonna get out of the Bushes with any of them.
But if we all just pretend it is not a problem, then there must not be a problem!
Right? Right.
A recent poll of black Americans has found that two-thirds believe racism is very prevalent when they seek jobs or housing and half say they have encountered discrimination even in stores and restaurants.
This contrasts strongly with the beliefs of white Americans, only about a quarter of whom think that blacks still face discrimination in housing and employment
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Poll_66_of_blacks_feel_racism_1115.html
NMP
Plenty of good reasons to kill your TV, though it also means having missed out on a certain skinny neurotic miniskirted lesbian lawyer, a version of whose name I use as my nick here...
Honestly, Ally McBeal was the only reason to watch Rupert Murdoch's network.
monkey
Honestly, the corruption of the American politics, religions, and society by the Moonies is so total and pervasive, that even a halfway-good Democrat for president will not reverse it.
Bill Clinton certainly didn't.
Christy
I get lots of "racism is so OVER" crap from ASIANS here in California.
The model minority myth must die. There is plenty of anti-Asian crap out there too, and even though the Korean Republican elites may never feel it, the Southeast Asian refugees and working class certainly do.
NMP
On a more serious note, the Gulf War I was reported a LOT like a video game scoresheet. Lots of enemies dying, relatively few American deaths by comparison, all things being fought by remote control, so far away.
This is also when impressionable kids and teens were playing war video games on their Nintendos and Segas.
Of course, I now know better - this was a war to check the advances of a monster of America's own creation, Saddam Hussein. American soldiers were being killed by American weapons that had previously been sold to Saddam, in hopes of containing the Iranians earlier. Disgusting - but that's par for American foreign policy in the Middle East.
November 15, 2007 3:53 PM
kangaroo said:
"In October 2006, the Lancet published research by Johns Hopkins University in the US and al-Mustansiriya University in Baghdad which calculated that 655,000 Iraqis had died as a result of the Anglo-American invasion." John Pilger
>>>>>
I don't know about you, roo, but I'm delighted that it's always referred to as Anglo-American. Australia is only ever counted as a partner in the illegalities of invasion and occupation, when Howard goes to huff'n'puff and pant around the feet of his most loved American president. Whenever Tony Blair spoke, it was only ever the UK/US partnership. And the same when any of the Whitehouse spokespeople referred to it.
Perhaps Australia's disgraceful lapse from *fair game/play* will be omitted from all of the history books - well, those written by the Brits and the Americans at least.
" I get lots of "racism is so OVER" crap from ASIANS here in California."
That is kinda funny Ally since in my experience the most racist group I ever sat in the middle of were Asian.
My friends mom tried to kill me with a Thai pepper once. She asked her mom, 'Why would you do that?'
You know what that woman told her? Because I am a white devil. No kidding.
Once I could breathe again, I left and never visited again.
Like I said, it was the only period in my life where being percieved as 'white' actually was a bad thing.
Ally - what's harder about this war than Vietnam, is that all news items and camera angles show the devastation of homes and bodies of civilians including many, many children. We don't see them out in combat in the jungle or the desert. We see them in the streets of Bagdhad terrorising families and ransacking and pillaging homes.
I make myself watch because it's the only way that I can ensure that I feel accountable. I didn't vote even one time for Howard but passively I stayed relatively silent. I am honestly not at all surprised that the suicide rate is so high amongst the vets. Those people have to carry an enormous burden for what they've seen and/or participated in. When you are involved in things that are alien to your own soul, you will come unstuck in the end.
Apart from a few demonstrations and letters to politicians, I did nothing to stop Australia's involvement. I'm learning a little about Common Law and Constitutional Law. The trouble is, the poor here can't take anyone to court. We can get medical help. Not legal.
Isn't this what democracy is? When there are many more people against something that is going to be done - in our name - don't the majority of us have to stand up and say - "We the people issue a Vote of No Confidence in the Prime Minister." Australia has never been an Invader or an Occupier. Surely the PM cannot do this in my name.
218-203 Too Little. Too Late.
I take that back. Now that I think about it, I still think the racisim of whites out eclipses that of Asians. I think Asians are just more open about it.
What they say on the fly, white people say in a calculated way when they are sure they can not be overheard.
Maybe I see them as just as racist because I was actually the target of it that time.
But, I am mistaken for a lot of races and Asians were hardly the most scary to me.
The worst incident I ever found myself in was with two uniformed white cops who absolutely assumed I was Mexican. I lived with them, I look like them, so I must be one.
By the time it was over my friends had to literally drag me into the house to keep me from getting shot. I told him EXACTLY what I thought of him as I was being removed.
That cops reaction when I finally realized WHY he was treating me like that said it all. His partner was trying real hard to shut him the hell up once he knew I wasn't Mexican.
It was one of the worst moments of my life.
Woz
Thanks for the insight - this is a horrible war, and you must vote Howard's Liberals out of power just for that reason. I want Australia to be a free, sovereign, and democratic nation, not a puppet that takes bloody orders from the likes of W.
I'll surely be planning a visit to your country once Howard is gone. (I do have some folks in the suburbs of Sydney that I haven't seen in nearly two decades.)
Christy
Otter is another DCPer who can tell you about negative experiences with the Asian community - specifically the nouveau-riche elites who are so common here in California. (His experience is from Northern California.)
On another note, I was at a Daily Kos discussion a while back, where Korea was named the most xenophobic country on Earth, followed closely by Japan.
Christy
Whites happen to have more power to enforce their racist theories with, at least in North America and Europe.
It doesn't lessen the impact of nonwhite racists, however.
Christy
In the US that I know today, I certainly wouldn't want to be a Mexican national right now, legal or not.
I'm actually glad that I belong to an ethnicity that's completely sold out to the Republicans, and helped its power grab possible, therefore earning me some immunity from the racist crap out there. Time to thank the Moonies.
Ally, I don't mean to sound as if all my experiences with Asians were bad. As I said my friend, actually named Asia, she was a great person, but after the pepper thing I refused to go anywhere near her mom.
It was very present, the racial thing, but it did not ultimately define my experience.
I would say in genral my experiences with Asians was stereotypical. Driven, smart, reserved.
I guess every crowd has its a**holes.
OMG!
Ally THANKED THE MOONIES!
It must be backwards day.
Christy
Seriously, think about it...
What if the Virginia Tech shooter last April came from the Middle East or Latin America? The media would've been all over the offending nationality, and life would've been hellish for anyone of that nationality.
But the shooter was Korean. There was no major anti-Korean backlash, and Fox News went out of its way to vindicate the Korean culture. Aside from the white Republican elites protecting their favorite puppet minority, I have no explanation for this difference in treatment.
FYI, I don't have to work till 9PM tonight, and I don't expect to work this weekend, since the big project I've been working on for the past week is over as of today's lunch hour.
Which explains why my noise level has gone up on the blog. :)
HAHA. I have been waiting for paint to dry all day. That gives me time to rattle on myself.
You should reward yourself on a job well done Ally and fly to the Carribbian.
As a matter of a fact you did so well, you deserve company, and I am free to be picked up on your way to say, St. Thomas.
Or St. Croix works too.
Did I mention I'm cute? And I carry luggage?
Oh yeah. I am probably on a no fly list.
Nevermind.
Christy
On a second thought, the Caribbean is full of homophobic places that will kill me on sight. Jamaica is especially bad.
I'm more of a Europe type of person. Though I do want to visit NOLA just as much, since I've never been down that way.
I know you're cute. Some even say you're HOT. :) As for the no fly list, you never know until you actually try to fly... I've been fine, since, again, I look more like a Christian Republican than a Muslim.
Christy
And speaking of a trip, I need one badly, since it's been four years since my last European trip and two years since my last Asian one.
It looks like I'll finish 2007 without ever leaving the US - a rarity for me.
Unfortunately, I don't expect to go anywhere anytime soon. If I can hit Blue California (AKA San Francisco) for Christmas, I'll be lucky.
I know the dollar is worthless these days, but I am still willing to travel as much as I can.
I get mistaken for Italian, Greek, sometimes even Thousand Island.
Lettuce Prey.
Scientists make monkey cloning breakthrough
The prospect of being able to clone human embyros efficiently for medical treatments has been raised by a technical breakthrough that has enabled scientists to make dozens of cloned embryos from adult monkeys for the first time.
more...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/11/12/sciclone112.xml
Ok, now ya know where I really was last week ;-)
Thousand Island! HAHAHA!
Ok Ally, you talked me into it.
I will run away with you to Amsterdam.
Or Romania!
Now I just want to eek eek too.
Oh and BTW. I am so not hot.
That is just a vicious rumor meant to discount my enourmous and intimidating brain power.
I am too old to be 'hot'. More like ... lukewarm.
hahaha monkey - now we really know you're back. Lettuce Prey indeed.
Do you know who I think was 'hot'? Gene Tierney. Now that was a beautiful woman, Even as an old woman, she was still just breathtaking.
My sister is one of those erethal beauties. I always felt sorry for her. The attention it caused and the expectations placed on her were completely unfair and even revolting. My own experiences with it hasn't been much better.
People have funny ideas about beauty even if beauty is ok with it.
Strange that I can hold beauty in such high regard, yet I feel mostly pity for them. I feel sorry for anything beautiful, art, animals, because the nature of mankind will dare him to crush it, time and time again.
Just because he can.
Hiya Woz. How are you feeling?
Is Lela back from the framers yet?
Holy crap. Check out ThinkProgress.
Judiciary Committee strips telecom immunity from FISA bill. Greg Sargent reports that the “version of the FISA bill that was just reported out of the Judiciary Committee does not — repeat, does not — contain retroactive immunity for the telecom companies.”
Christy,
Leyla is ready to be picked up - next week, hopefully. I hope I've chosen well. I asked the guy how it looks and he said, "Good." So, that scares me. I'll photograph and post it when I get it.
this just in............
By ROBERT BURNS and ANNE FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writers
28 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Thursday that unless Congress passes funding for the Iraq war within days, he will direct the Army and Marine Corps to begin developing plans to lay off employees and terminate contracts early next year.
ADVERTISEMENT
Gates, who met with members of Congress on Wednesday, said that he does not have the money or the flexibility to move funding around to adequately cover the costs of the continuing operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"There is a misperception that this department can continue funding our troops in the field for an indefinite period of time through accounting maneuvers, that we can shuffle money around the department. This is a serious misconception," Gates told reporters at the Pentagon.
As a result, he said that he is
Even Kucinich?
CNN lousy debate:
Just spent 20 minutes on drivers licenses for "illegal" aliens...
What a waste.. (BTW - drivers licensing is A STATE MATTER NOT A FEDERAL MATTER....)
Wait another "angry, red-state" question:
MERIT PAY FOR TEACHERS... wasting more time - not really a federal issue...
Let's see how long it takes them to get to Iraq, Iran, Bin Laden, Afghanistan, Social Security, the national debt, energy prices..
WHO THE HECK PICKED THESE QUESTIONS>???????? THEY STINK.................
Ralph,
The people who picked those questions relied upon the tried and true "prejudicial" issues.
Woz...check your email. (again)
Hey All:
With respect to the topic, I have trying to tell you all that when it comes to the execution of wars or foreign policy, under our constitution as I understand it, it is very difficult for the legislative branch to take the lead. The system is set up, by intent I suspect, to give the executive branch authority over operations. Of course, back in those days the idea was that the Senate alone had the power to declare war. When was the last time the US declared war? My guess is the day after Pearl Harbor, and the time before that WWI, and the time before that Spain (Cuba, Phillipines), and the time before that Civil War/Mexican War (depending how you define some things). In the meantime, think of how many applications of organized coercion or violence occured sanctioned by our state or states. (Cf: Weber and the monopoly over the legitimate application of coercive force.)
Chuck in Houston
Chuck, the Constitution was written clearly giving more power to the Senate and House, and it was also clearly intended to be used to keep executive excess in check.
Most of our Founding Fathers were lawyers that knew exactly what they were doing and they deliberately made the presidency the weaker of the branches.
Just because we have not been following the Constitution does not mean we shouldn't.
Just because this congress and most of the ones before it want us too believe they can quietly abdicate their responsibility and authority in order to silently reap war profits does not mean the next one should.
People have been talking about a class war all my life, I say let's go ahead and fight about it and settle this crap once and for all.
No legacies for the wicked and no default monarchies allowed . EVER.
But then again, I do believe that is the new found anarchist in me.
And so what if that also described Grover Norquist, because it is damn hard to kill evil without becoming a killer.
Christy:
I read the constitution as giving the executive, as commander in chief, an awful lot of leeway once basic authorization from teh "board," if you will (the legislative), has declared war. Once we are in a war, I think it is very hard for the legislative to get back into the saddle. That has to occur in the executive. And I think we agree on one thing: Grover Norquist is an anarchist. You tear down democratic government, and all power is in the hands of the people that own the most property. And that is the basic human condition since civilization began and that was what Lincoln was talking about when he dedicated that cemetary in Gettysburg.
Chuck in Houston
You know what I think the REAL problem is in this country?
We do not want to admit we have been and are now ruled by WAR CRIMINALS.
Our entire empire, including its genocidal birth, has been based on the policies and needs of select elite who always find a way to make money off of dead people. Lots of dead people. Entire nations full of dead people and wounded people. You know, the people we have robbed VIOLENTLY and found a way to accept for us it was some kind of glorious and needed victory.
They quit declaring 'wars' because these little extranational incursions are much much more profitable. All the war profits, no real 'war'. It's brilliant if you are evil.
We have been brain washed into believing we were the 'good germans' when we have been the nazis instead, ALL ALONG.
I personally feel so betrayed in my soul I am afraid I will never recover. The only way I could is if ALL of these crimes are laid bare and we begin to heal the source of the disease instead of the symptoms.
God help us all. We are a damned nation.
Just like Rome.
You know, I don't even think I am an anarchist really, I just feel like one suddenly and I don't know why.
I completely believe in the US Constitution and will gladly submit to its' rule.
I am more clearly a 9th Amendment literalist.
Ohh I just invented a new club.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. --The Ninth Amendment
Everyone knows about the First Amendment right of free speech and the Fifth Amendment right to avoid self-incrimination. Even the once-forgotten Second Amendment, with its "right to bear arms," has reemerged in public debate. But few people know about the Ninth Amendment, which reaffirms in broad terms rights "retained by the people." Indeed, the Ninth flies so far under the radar that it has rarely been mentioned even by the Supreme Court.
What a pity. Even more, what a terrible oversight: the Ninth Amendment bears directly on such modern-day constitutional issues as abortion, the right to die, and gay rights
http://www.alternet.org/rights/50404/
Christy
You are on to something.
Many Americans are afraid to say these very words, because they are afraid to look unpatriotic. But I am beyond that point. I don't care anymore about whether I am a patriot or a traitor, when the nation no longer believes in me (and its people).
Thanks for saying what has been around all along.
Amsterdam? Think again... It's overrated, honestly. It's been run over by sexist, racist, homophobic thugs, and is no longer the bastion of tolerance that it once (if ever) was. Nobody talks about those thugs, however, because they are Surinamese immigrants, and it would be politically incorrect to criticize them.
Ralpheh
Those red staters don't get it. Legalize those illegals, give them freebie citizenships, and let them "achieve the American dream" - and they will vote REPUBLICAN in droves. The red staters have NOTHING to gain by attacking their potential best friends.
(I am NOT advocating mass amnesty of illegals here...)
As for the driver's license question, I'm all for issuing driver's licenses to ANYONE who wants them - legals, illegals, visitors, whatever - but illegals and visitors need to be so designated (this is something the immigrant communities are upset about, but it's fair). Driver's licenses need to be just that - a LICENSE TO OPERATE A MOTOR VEHICLE - not a heavy-duty all-purpose ID.
Me, too Ally.
I don't care if they call me unpatriotic because their own patriotisim is in serious doubt itself.
Unlike 99.6% of the rest of Us, I have actually read and understand the Constitution.
How about Romania then? Beautiful art work.
Christy
The Ninth Amendment was a popular Republican theme during the Clinton years, to assert (red) states' rights over the "encroaching" federal initiatives, especially on social issues.
Not to stand against the Ninth, but it can be turned against itself, just like any other part of the Constitution.
Christy
No comment on Romania as it's not a place I've been to (or know well about).
I only know two things:
- It's off the beaten path, for sure
- Bucharest, the capital, is so devoid of sights that its postcards feature a run-down hotel as the top landmark.
Christy
You are looking at the big picture (time/space) - it's cool.
(I mean the analogies with Rome)
Someone FINALLY answered my question.
Remember the photos OnCall posted, with Bush & the burn victims & guys with no legs, back from Iraq & Afghanistan - at that private rehab facility in Texas that they use now instead of federally-funding Walter Reed?
I sent out wide into the universe my question:
> How can Bush have such a disconnect - like the war
> based on lies for nothing had
> nothing to do with his faulty decision making
One word: Cocaine.
Cocaine? Seriously? It doesn't surprise me - he's addicted to a lot of things - war in which he and his family are in no personal danger is just one of them.
Woz, it is well established that georgie was and probably is a cokehead.
There is even evidence he od'ed once, a hospital in Texas had the admission slips where his father signed him in. For cocain poisioning.
As a matter of a fact, a lot of people say Laura Bush was the hookup for weed around the time she 'accidently' killed her boyfriend.
Not that I mind good ganja, but I prefer not to have a crackhead as president.
You know, the more I think about Afghanistan, the more it looks like a junkie ensuring his supply.
Now that there is a bumper poppy crop, bin laden who? Taliban what?
But to move all those drugs, you would need a private contractor that can wind back and forth between our troops all along the way. You know, like Halliburton.
Afghan poppy crop with the new route for it straight through Iraq to the west. The only way you can move it is private contractors.
If it is true and Hasteret was caught on tape laundering drug money with the Turks, I think it is obvious that we are now controlled by a global drug cartel.
D. M.
Oh and Ralph,
The debates last night were sponsored by the coal industry.
Maybe illegal immigration is a pressing issue to them.
Ok it was hard to type that without a big smirk on my face.
Mornin' all. Sun shining here today. See front page header too. Love you all.
Kos and Rove hired at Newsweek to counterbalance each other?
Is this necessary?!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ari-melber/karl-rove-to-balance-ko_b_72880.html
article by my homeboy Ari Melber
Christy
A friend of my bro's in CO knew some "Bush brothers" who flew in with shipments and swears it's them, and that they were using those planes the contras used.
Christy
The Bush family's major benefactor, Reverend Moon, himself got his money from Latin American drug trade.
It's not just W who is a cokehead. All the right-wing political parties of the US (Republican), South Korea (Grand National), Japan (Liberal Democratic), Taiwan (Nationalist), and most of Latin America, are cokeheads, by their association to the Moonies.
Christy and Ralpheh
The Republicans are as brainless and clueless on immigration, as the Democrats are on a whole bunch of other issues.
I will always consider immigrants to be the Republicans' goose that lay the golden egg.
Those red staters don't get it. Legalize those illegals, give them freebie citizenships, and let them "achieve the American dream" - and they will vote REPUBLICAN in droves. The red staters have NOTHING to gain by attacking their potential best friends.
@@@@
We are not talking Asians or Europeans when we are talking about immigration:
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT "MEXICANS", who can't speak English and might vote Democrat...
The Republicans, in their hate-mongering mode which has targeted blacks, homosexuals, Arabs and now Mexicans, are locked into a policy of xenophobia and rejection of "other" groups... The Mexicans are the worst offenders from these other groups - They don't speak English; they have their own culture, they are not wealthy or educated etc...
MAINSTREAM MEDIA HATH SPOKEN:
HILLARY WON THE DEBATE (lol - actually she didn't ***AS BAD*** in this debate as the previous debate
Kucinich on impeachment in the debate:
Army desertion rate highest since 1980
Statistic: Army Desertion Rates Up 80 Percent Since Invasion of Iraq in 2003
LOLITA C. BALDORAP News
Nov 16, 2007 11:47 EST
Soldiers strained by six years at war are deserting their posts at the highest rate since 1980, with the number of Army deserters this year showing an 80 percent increase since the United States invaded Iraq in 2003.
While the totals are still far lower than they were during the Vietnam war, when the draft was in effect, they show a steady increase over the past four years and a 42 percent jump since last year.
According to the Army, about nine in every 1,000 soldiers deserted in fiscal year 2007, which ended Sept. 30, compared to nearly seven per 1,000 a year earlier. Overall, 4,698 soldiers deserted this year, compared to 3,301 last year.
The increase comes as the Army continues to bear the brunt of the war demands with many soldiers serving repeated, lengthy tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Military leaders — including Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey — have acknowledged that the Army has been stretched nearly to the breaking point by the combat. And efforts are under way to increase the size of the Army and Marine Corps to lessen the burden and give troops more time off between deployments.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Army_desertion_rate_highest_since_1_11162007.html
Ralpheh
Latinos - not just Cubans, but Mexicans, Salvadorans, and others - are socially conservative. Their communal culture makes them more homophobic than individuality-oriented whites; no amount of politically correct white liberal sugar-coating changes that fact.
If given enough wealth and rights, the Latino community WILL vote Republican, especially if the Democrats continue to take their vote for granted.
Protestant Latinos did vote Republican in the 2004 elections.
Woz and anyone else who would like to sign the petition
Australian Avaaz member
Our Own Plan for Iraq
Sign the GetUp petition below
Dear Prime Minister,
For years your Government has adopted the Bush administration's Iraq policy as our own, even as that policy has repeatedly failed. With Australian troops still at risk and the situation in Iraq deteriorating, Australia urgently needs an independent Iraq policy.
We ask that you announce a plan for a new way forward, including a clearly defined exit strategy for Australia in Iraq.
http://www.getup.org.au:80/campaign/OurOwnPlanForIraq&id=227
It's a good thing these are "comments" because alot of what we (including me, of course) have written here is either speculative, personal opinion or a generalization.
Just thought I'd point that out .. for any lurkers
Edwards 1 Kucinich 2 by big Majority in six minute poll on Hartman Air America. Hilliary and Obama well down.
Ralpheh
I didn't watch the debates, but the blogosphere is somewhat echoing MSM, though they are making excuses in many cases, alleging stacked decks of questions, packing the house w/ so & so's supporters etc. At DailyKos, there are some negatives expressed re all the candidates, some positives, and one person wrote about calling off the mud slinging and wars that are going in all directions. My personal group emails were tending in the same direction and actually, the Republicans I know were far more objective, and with an "n" of two, one is leaning toward Obama, the other Richardson.
Kangaroo
Air America is not representative of the country, or even Iowa or New Hampshire primaries, though popular in urban markets.
One reason I am not getting as involved this year is because at this stage, people get to the edge of hysteria.
I do not even have a favorite yet.
JK has taken up the challenge offered by the Swift Boat creep from TX. I'm writing from a remote location so can't be specific but have the press release, imagine it's at JK's site & there is a diary by BeachMom at DKos to read/recommend. Go JK! No doubt this attack is being stepped up prior to '08 elections just to try to sour some on the not-Rove party.
AWOL Soldier Seeking Treatment Arrested
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/111507B.shtml
The Associated Press reports, "A soldier who served two combat tours in Iraq was arrested Wednesday for leaving the Army without permission more than a year ago to seek treatment for post traumatic stress disorder." And Agence France-Presse reports on the "suicide epidemic" in the US military.
JK has taken up the challenge offered by the Swift Boat creep from TX.
nmp Good thing, but it is 4 years to late, he should have blown them aways in 2004.
Rossi,
Please forgive me(in advance!) because I don't mean to sound harsh or grumpy. But I can think of no other way to say it.
But I adamantly disagree with anyone who says "Too late..he should have done x.y.z. in 04". It's not right, Rossi.
Is that what you told your family when they were abused by bullies on the playground? The next time they went after your loved one, did you say, "It's too late, you should have punched them in the nose the first time, so now you just have to let them keep kicking you for the rest of your life."
My guess is that you told them "KEEP FIGHTING BACK UNTIL THEY STOP!"
Well that's what this is about now, Rossi. It's not about JK and it's not about 04! It's about STOPPING the bad guys before they get a soapbox for 08 and swiftboat-lie against anyone else.
It's about taking away ANY residual claim to honesty and integrity that anyone gave them in 04.
Besides Rossi--YOU were there in 04 and on his website. ALL his records were available THERE AND HE got each of his swiftboat members to come out in support of his story. The swiftboatlairs got to KEEP their soapbox NOT due to JK but due to the MEDIA. AND it's the SAME MEDIA that will lie about the next candidate.
That's why it is really time to put down the anger about 04 and recognise that each of us do what we can in life against people who bully us. And in Jk's case, in 2004 and even now, the media has NEVER been his friend--due to his stance against media consolidation that was well known in 03. And also he has never been a friend of the democrats or the republicans due to his investigations into the Iran-Contra that went against the establishment.
So can we lay off the 'too late' thing? Because frankly, when someone comes after me, my kids, my friends, or my co-workers, I'm not going to tell them that they made their bed so they should lay on it--stinky stuff and all. I'm going to go tell them, "So you got a stinky bed and you had some sticky problems, but you have to make the best of what you've been given. So get your act together and go out there and make something durable and livable with the crap you've been given."
You know what NMP, it might be opinion and speculation and our own miniinvestigations colliding here...
But there is more truth to what is said here than anything I have seen in the MSM FOR YEARS NOW.
Reminded of it again just now, bush planting questions, hillary planting questions and now CNN. There was not a single honest question asked there last night.
I don't even agree with Chuck on a lot of things, but even I would believe him over georgie or anything CNN tells me at this point because he atleast has never lied to me.
I don't know about yall but it freaks me out more every day than it did the day before.
BTW, since we are adding to the speculation, I too have heard of 'The Flying bush Boys' and thier little planes full of latin american smack. As a matter of a fact the RUMOR I heard was the ATF actually caught this on tape with little georgie playing the leading role on a tarmac with said little planes.
But since the rumor ends with the tape disappearing I guess it will remain a rumor.
Oh, BTW, as I recal it was directly related to MENA ARKANSAS. Who's governor at the time was shutting down all investigations into allegations of drugrunning surrounding the murder of two boys...in Mena Arkansas. You know the governor whos brother was busted FOR RUNNING COCAIN.
Jesus Christ I am going to scream.
I need to go pray. Please excuse me.
And can we all stop with the JFK, I promise I will too?
That was the crappiest birthday ever.
No soldier should have to die on the other side of the world because a bunch of traitorous neocons decided it was a good idea to send him there.
No soldier should be sent into combat under-equipped because the profits of war-profiteers are considered more important than his safety.
No soldier should return from battle in the field only to face a battle of red-tape in order to get his due after he has served.
No soldier should come home to the prospect of being homeless.
No soldier should have to beg on the street for quarters after fighting a war that cost billions.
No soldier should have to worry about how his family will survive financially, while they worry about whether he will survive at all.
No soldier should have to risk his life knowing his president will later refer to his ultimate sacrifice as just a number.
No soldier should be considered qualified to fight a war, if he can later be disqualified for access to the care he needs as a result of having done so.
No soldier should be told he is fighting for his countrymen’s rights and freedoms, if those rights and freedoms are being stripped away from himself and his fellow citizens as he fights.
No soldier should be told that he is free to fight, but not free to speak about what the fight is really all about.
No soldier should live in fear of being tortured knowing his own country has justified its use.
No soldier should be used as a political talking point, nor should his support be an empty slogan on a bumpersticker instead of the real thing.
No soldier should be used as background in a photo-op, especially by the people whose lies sent him into an unnecessary war in the first place.
No soldier should ever have to face death wondering if he is dying for his country, or for the corporate profits to be made after he is gone.
No soldier should ever have to wonder whether his fate is being determined by those reaching for a dream of future peace, or those hoping for the power and money that only the nightmare of endless war can ensure.
No soldier.
Anywhere.
At any time.
Ever.
http://www.democraticunderground.com:80/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2269436
Christy, it was my crappy birthday too. And that's why I said it's not about o4.
Isn't there a saying, "Today is the first day of the rest of your life..."?
Well, today is the first day of the rest of my life, the rest of your life, the rest of JK's life, the rest of all of our lives! So don't we owe it to stop saying "should have done this.." when all that matters is TODAY and the fact that ALL of us are doing THIS or THAT and each of these actions put together create an opportunity for something good to happen.
When we dwell on yesteryears, we just as well dwell in gloom. But when we stick together, we have the promise of a better tomorrow.
Please forgive me(in advance!) because I don't mean to sound harsh or grumpy. But I can think of no other way to say it.
As I said sparrow, it is a good thing, and hell yeah I was there of JK's site from day one, you know, that is what always disgusted me the most, the Democratic Elite should have had JK's back, but never stood up for JK the choice of the people, they worked against the peoples elected candidate, just the same as they did with Lieberman, when the people voted him out, just like fienstien and so many other democrats voting with bush on major bills, voting against the wishes of the majority of the people, that is the whole problem with the democrats and the republicans, the Democratic Elite only work for their own power and interests, not for the wishes of the people, the Republicans work in lock step, always voting as one, right or wrong to keep a thug in power.
Christy
That was the crappiest birthday ever.
How well I remember.
Sparrow
So don't we owe it to stop saying "should have done this.." when all that matters is TODAY
That is okay sparrow, if 2004 is never forgotten, and you have not got the likes of Lieberman, Fienstien and so many more democrats in the house and the senate voting against major bills affecting the lives of the American Citizens and at times the World Community today.
Bush should never have been able to choke the Democratic Senate like he has since 2006, so that nothing of substance has been passed. Everyone here knows that.
It's hit the MSM - Comcast mainpage anyway.
JK is calling their goddamn bluff.
http://www6.comcast.net/news/articles/national/2007/11/16/Kerry.Swift.Boat/?cvqh=kerry
Some may say he should have done it in '04 but he is a gentleman, something many don't understand.
Many Americans do NOT agree with the left or the right. They are the middle and will often not be found on the blogosphere. This is something many in and out of this country don't understand.
Some with political ambitions aim straight down the center, in America or elsewhere. It's not something to endorse, just something to be aware of.
The blogosphere in particular is polarized. There is still the great middle, where name recognition is all that matters, and many don't even follow the news, unless it comes up and bites them - or are spoonfed faux news, if that.
Where I live is a fishbowl, but I work and have lived outside the fishbowl - that is one reason I recognize it. Christy does not live in the fishbowl but her geographical domain is not the only place not well represented by the blogosphere, probably.
Here are some moderates, independents, Republicans etc. as well as liberals - responses to the debates.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/open-caucus-the-voters-on-the-debate/
nmp
but he is a gentleman, something many don't understand.
Of course he is a Gentleman, a Diplomat, and a man of integrity, but that is not what wins a President today if the GOP thugs don't like the peoples vote, they take it to a corrupt supreme court to rig the presendency, or they rig to machines or they keep the poor standing in line for up to 9 / 10 hrs on a working day,
Or as in Palistine they put in their puppet, against the vote of the Palistian people, all the corrupt money goes to their thug, not the Palistian people, as in Pakistan they keep a dictator in power a Dictator who has always stood with Al Quadea. And the world is expected to look to America who declare they are Leaders of the Free World for Democracy and Values.
Rossi,
You said it!!! The Democratic elite were no-shows in 04, 05, 06, and even in 07. But one thing you and I recognise is that you have to keep fighting for your beliefs even when people have pushed you down. You keep the feet moving and you keep making sure that they don't ever get the upperhand again.
So I'm so dang glad that Kerry is fighting these liars before they try to infiltrate the o8 elections with their moving-tent-show of lies.
Now...you gotta know I love you and that I knew you would understnad the reason we have to fight and help other people continue the fight. Afterall, if we're so busy fighting about one name, then what happens to everything else going on that could be going better if we focused on today and tomorrow but LEARNED from yesterday.
Go get those bullies, JK and all of us here too!
PS. Sorry for jumpiness. Internet isn't working right, right now.
Hello, I actually stopped by looking for furry critters like monkeys and otters. It does sound as if the monkey had turned into the TinMan (if I've got my OZ right?) I hope you're doing well!
I'll try to stop tomorrow sometime daylight and see what creatures are afoot.
Hey Ladytech,
Good to hear from you. Hope all is well.
Hell Yeah, we've been waiting forever it seems, for that bit of news.
Fired Attorneys Build Case Against Gonzales
Jason Leopold, reporting for Truthout, writes, "John McKay, the former US attorney for the Western District of Washington, pieced together thousands of pages of internal Justice Department (DOJ) emails released earlier this year, reviewed public documents and pored through hundreds of pages of sworn testimony his former boss, Alberto Gonzales, gave to Congress about the firings of at least nine US attorneys last year."
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/111607A.shtml
Ladytechie
Welcome back! We're all well - though we seem to have lost madame defarge during our upgrade. :(
Please check back with us more often! Hope you're doing well.
I didn't know thousands of African-Americans are marching on Washington today - there are only 300 some stories and many are foreign.
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN1639890820071116
I didn't know that Kissinger put the country on nuclear alert without telling Nixon, back in the day.
(That's on NPR just now - guy has written a book about the "co-presidency" of Kissinger & Nixon)
Beware Cheney.
so .. Nixon said, "We've got to keep Bush on (the father), because he'll do anything we want him to.." (he was head of the RNC)
..guy is making parallels w/Vietnam & Iraq, predicts same outcome - failed state with some sort of dictatorship there & an inability to succeed
I have to read this book.
Now thinking that Kissinger STILL advises this Bush administration, just think how he will press for victory or that it be PRESENTED as a victory..
I suppose it's at http://www.npr.org - I'm hearing it on radio, moved from car into house
NMP - I heard that earlier. I think it's Fresh Air, but not Terri Gross.
Creepy to think the Kissinger is still doing this stuff. And really creepy the parrallels.
Carol
Yes I think someone else was interviewing in her place - now they are talking about DePalma's "Redacted" - again, so many parallels between civilian killings in Vietnam and Iraq that he essentially remade the same movie. It ends with photos of civilian corpses and I couldn't watch it - I can see the ones I've seen in my mind already and opposed the war before it ever started. Still, I wish him luck if it'll wake some more people from their deep sleep.
Seem like deja vu lately - a huge increase in deserters, guys being refused sanctuary in Canada now, people in Olympia and Tacoma being arrested for blocking military shipments, and the Army being caught kicking post-traumatic stress sufferers out of the service as having "personality disorders" & therefore cutting off their medical aid and honorable record and chance for education
Who knew we would live to go through this twice (at least)
Oh and there was a city-wide student walkout today (Seattle) because the students (some at least) are damn sick of recruiters in the schools
here we go .. the students
Student protesters march through downtown Seattle
THOMAS JAMES HURST / THE SEATTLE TIMES
Matthew Rousseau, center, chants anti-war slogans with a couple hundred protesters who marched through downtown Seattle.
A crowd of roughly 400 anti-war demonstrators — most of them high school and college students — marched through downtown Seattle today, carrying signs and chanting slogans such as "This is what democracy looks like!"
From Westlake Center, they made their way to Jackson Street and 23rd Avenue, where they staged a brief sit-in in a parking lot outside of military-recruiting offices. The offices were closed today, apparently because of the protest.
Dozens of Seattle police officers escorted the demonstrators while others, armed with long sticks and pepper spray, stood behind fences and police tape outside the recruiting offices for the U.S. Army, Navy and Marine Corps.
more at link
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004018413_webprotest16m.html
Kucinich Highlights from the debate (quite popular at You Tube)
Kucinich, Conyers, Michael Moore on Universal Health Care:
QUOTE:
Some with political ambitions aim straight down the center, in America or elsewhere. It's not something to endorse, just something to be aware of.
The blogosphere in particular is polarized. There is still the great middle, where name recognition is all that matters, and many don't even follow the news, unless it comes up and bites them - or are spoonfed faux news, if that.
@@@@@@@@@@
This is what is so awful about the president election: it is all about money, image, and name recognition...
And Hillary is getting a free ride with her husband's name and popularity. NO ONE, among the journalists, is talking about Hillary's crumby, pro-Neo-Con record in the Senate. And just as bad, Many Democrats don't know diddly about Hillary's stand on the issues. Her healthcare plan is timid and does not call for a single-payer and does not cover everyone; she has said that she wants a U.S. military presence in Iraq etc.... her advisors are DLCer's and Republicans (Mark Penn etc...). NPR's Mara Laisson is pro-Hillary (at this point), Laisson gave an extraordinarily fluffy piece on Hillary's "crunch time" as a public figure;
NPR's Ted Koppel suggested sometime ago that Hillary was not being truthful with the American people about her position on Iraq... - no one has followed up on Koppel's analysis... his piece fell like a tree in the forest with no one present to hear it... LOL
Ralpheh
Hillary's overall record isn't that bad - she is a "left liberal" on the spectrum chart so it's funny you referring to her as having a proNeocon record in the Senate.
I am not endorsing her but I can compare the candidate records at
http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm and that is what I do.
I prefer Ted Koppel to Mara Laisson but even he has been accused repeatedly of being an apologist for Blackwater (eg. http://iraqforsale.bravenewfilms.org/blog/499-ted-koppel-pushing-the-blackwater-agenda)
Too bad life is complex, eh?!
I still do not have a horse in this race.
Ralpheh
Kucinich is a nice guy, well-intensioned.
We should have a Department of Peace.
Too bad he bankrupted Cleveland.
http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/Dennis_Kucinich_Corporations.htm
Next.
This is what is so awful about the president election: it is all about money, image, and name recognition...
.. don't forget corporate lobbyists, kickbacks, pork, favors owed, nepotism, lack of campaign finance reform and waffling
Ralpheh
I agree Mark Penn is creepy
Separated a birth with Rove
I wish they had asked some of the male candidates whether they preferred diamonds or pearls - then we would see who the real metrosexual is.
Reid Cancels Senate Thanksgiving Break To Avoid Bush Recess Appointments
Roll Call | Erin P. Billings | November 16, 2007 10:30 PM
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) has decided to keep the chamber in session over the Thanksgiving break to block President Bush from making any unsavory recess appointments while Senators are out of town.
In a statement inserted in the record Friday, the Majority Leader said he will hold the Senate in a series of pro forma or nonvoting sessions to prevent the controversial practice. In the statement, Reid argued that nominations need to get on track, and that Bush has...
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/1_1/breakingnews/21044-1.html
nmp at least Kucinich couldn't bankrupt the whole of the US. That's been done already.
Rossi, are you still here?
Can you please meet me on messenger....?
Yeah, I am creepin around at 2 am. In my bathrobe.
Ummm. What does this mean exactly?
"..Christy does not live in the fishbowl."
As far as being regionally left out online, we are making our progress known. Since Katrina I think this nation has finally been willing to listen. It only took the drowning of New Orleans, but, hey, atleast you are paying attention.
As far as the fishbowl thing you are right, I live in seclusion. But it is an error to think I have not lived in a fishbowl. There was a reason I was hanging around halfbreed Thai strippers named Asia.
I know some people here have Masters Degrees in say, dancing, others of us however graduated from the School of Hard Knocks. Me, I graduated with honors. I was damn good at what I did. You think I can paint or write? You should see me dance.
When I did live in the fishbowl, I made a lot of money. I blew every damn dime of maybe 3 fortunes. It was fatalisim really. I never thought I would actually live this long, because to live in the fishbowl I only had to sell my soul to swim.
The problem is not those in seclusion watching the fish. It is the fish thinking that somehow the fishbowl is not part of that persons world, but a world unto itself.
Yes Sparrow, it was your birthday too.
What a crappy day all around.
Christy
When I said you did not live in a fishbowl I meant you were not in a locale where everyone thinks as you did, where you are constantly preaching to the converted everywhere you go.
The problem can be that those in a liberal fishbowl think that the rest of the world outwide the fishbowl is the same as inside. Then they can overestimate their importance as representing the "mainstream."
That's prone to happen on the left and the right and there really are alot of people kind of in the middle, who do not even pay much attention, until events are right in their face.
Woz
You are right - Bush has bankrupted the country, or robbed the Treasury