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Peace in the Middle East? Permanent Bases in Iraq? A Constitution...somewhere!
Wow!
That's all I can think of to say. It's not often that I'm left with one word, but the latest headlines make me think I've left the United States of America and have instead entered the Twilight Zone.
First we had Bush, Lieberman, and all the Republicans saying that the surge has been a success.
Then, the headlines proclaimed with glee that the Iraq government had made a deal with the US to have permanent bases in Iraq.
And if that wasn't enough to leave you with your mouth dropping to the floor, and the great big WOW floating across your screen, the latest headlines will do the trick for you.
--Bush's Mideast legacy on the line at peace conference
With this headline, the media has found a way to redeem George Bush. They have introduced the newest-improved-Bush called, "Bushton." You'll recognize Bushton because Bushton suddenly discovered that he needed to protect his legacy much as the neoconservatives claimed Clinton was doing when he committed his last term to bringing peace between Palestine and Israel. So now we have Bushton the diplomat, the forsaker of war, the guardian of peace talks.
Today, the media is doing a lot of backward peddling. Starting with: "Permanent Bases in Iraq may not pass Parliamont." And ending with after 08...(and beyond)
So there you have it.
And you thought they couldn't wow you again!
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Since it is on topic, posting again
Iraq politicians oppose US pact
Iraqi opposition groups have criticised moves towards a long-term US-Iraqi pact following the expiry of the UN mandate governing foreign troops in Iraq.
On Monday US and Iraqi leaders signed a "declaration of principles" on enduring military, political and economic ties.
Sunni Arab and Shia politicians said it would lead to what they described as "US interference for years to come".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7115131.stm
Rove: "Congress Pushed Bush to War in Iraq Prematurely"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/rove-congress-pushed-bu_b_74039.html
Such gall.
Christy
That "pact" doesn't surprise me at all, since it's eerily similar to similar pacts signed with "governments" across the world, including Iran in the 1950s and Bautista's Cuba.
Just like Iran and Cuba, expect Iraq to be taken over via violent revolution by anti-American forces, sometime in the future.
I want to know what are we truly looking at.
Iraq will fail, the dollar will depreciate by NINETY PERCENT! Afghanistan will fail, has already failed, our elections are completely rigged, war criminals have taken over every branch of our government and they are spying on us and torturing people and habeus corpus gone Posse Comitatus void, our food infected our toys poisioned no manufacturing base and we owe China TRILLIONS of dollars. On top of all that all our social service systems are systematically failing or are in complete bankruptsy, our schools are decimated and the hungry and sick are multiplying by the millions. Two thirds of the rest of the world, including once steadfast allies absolutely despise us, and Turkey arguably one of our oldest allies is about to invade Northern Iraq right on top of us for the purpose of...well.. liquidating the Kurd population. In military alignment with Irans greatest desire as well.
And not one democrat seems capable of even WANTING to mount any kind of opposition to any of it, because they too belong to the Corrupt Bastards Club and have absolutely no intention of ever fufilling their Constitutional obligations and duties.
Are we truly looking at a complete and total loss of our nation?
Has anyone ever seen anything like this before ever? I have never even READ about something this freaking totally bad.
Are we still even a COUNTRY...?
Hey Christy, ya forgot that we have major bridges collapsing into rivers and natural disasters striking from coast to coast at alarming rates.
As I've said about a zillion times, name ONE thing that has gone well under the Bush administration, and tell me how in the hell this country is not completely up in arms against the pieces of crap who brought this on us?
Oh yeah, blame the liberals.
BTW, I think Bush wants a piece of the Middle East, not peace in the Middle East.
Of course they criticise it. Maliki was installed - not by democratic vote - but by George W Bush, that vote-cheating expert. It's another expansion of his Empire, to have military bases across the world. He's got one down here in Australia. Guam is becoming bigger and more powerful with the installation of the US-Australia setup there. The native population of Guam, are apparently American and yet they are not permitted to vote in Presidential elections.
Spot on, monkey!
In an Opinion piece in today's Age, Catherine Deveny said,
Howard you know. Maxine is the woman who stole the PM's seat after umpteen years. McLeod's Daughters is an Australian soap. It was the next sentence that I found appealing.
Why does this agreement to me look like Maliki government is going to be using the US troops as his own personal bodyguards and soldiers to both guard against and take control of the Iraqi Civil War..?
We have become MALIKIS hired thugs?
Ofcourse he wants a PIECE of it, that has been the whole point all along.
Everybody else just gets to do the DYING for it.
*Holy crap, ya GOTTA read some of the quotes His Stupidness made today while being interviewed by The Associated Press in the Oval Office* I particularly liked "It requires work to lay the groundwork for"....
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
WASHINGTON (AP) - Hours after opening a Mideast conference, President Bush said Tuesday he was worried about the consequences if the search for peace failed but declared, "It is worth it to try."
Bush cautioned it would take time for Israelis and Palestinians to reach an agreement. The goal is to reach an accord within 14 months by the end of Bush's presidency.
"I don't think it's a risk to try for peace," the president said in an Oval Office interview with reporters from The Associated Press. "I think it's an obligation."
While Bush has been criticized for standing back from Mideast peacemaking for most of his presidency, he described himself as "very engaged, up to the moment" in bringing Israel, the Palestinians and more than 40 countries together for a conference in Annapolis, Md., to launch the first major peacemaking effort in seven years. The last significant attempt at Mideast peacemaking was at the end of the Clinton administration in 2000. Its failure was followed by a Palestinian uprising and violence.
He pronounced the Annapolis gathering a "successful conference" — primarily because of the international participation that he said he had worked very hard personally to make a reality. "A moment like today just doesn't happen. It requires work to lay the groundwork for," Bush said.
His goal was to put both leaders in a better position to make concessions, when they face enormous pressure from domestic factions.
"They're going to have to make tough choices," the president said. "And what they're going to need is they're going to need the international — particularly the neighborhood — saying it's OK."
Bush said Annapolis was "the beginning of an outline of a vision" of two states — Israel and Palestine — living side by side in peace.
"The danger is for the Palestinians that unless there's a vision described, that people can aspire to, hopeful, it is conceivable that we could lose an entire generation —or a lot of a generation — to radicals and extremists," Bush said.
"There has to be something more positive. And that is on the horizon today," the president said.
From here on, Bush described his role in the peace process this way: "I work the phones, I listen, I encourage, I have meetings. I do a lot of things."
read more on...
Sorry, left out the link to his stink...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21997044/
"Obviously, I am concerned about the consequences of a failed conference — or a failed process in this case. It's not just a conference, it's a failed process. On the other hand, it is worth it to try, because the Middle East needs to have the liberty agenda prevail."
"One of the powers of having a state defined is that it'll serve as a catalyst to marginalize extremists who have no vision, at least they don't have a positive vision," he said. "What you're watching is the development of a state which becomes something that people like Abbas and reasonable moderate people can say `Support us and this is what you'll end up having, support the other bunch and you'll have war.'"
My head is gonna 'splode, Lucy!
(CNN) -- Red Cross President and CEO Mark W. Everson has stepped down after revelations he was "engaged in a personal relationship with a subordinate employee," the organization announced Tuesday.
The Red Cross Board of Governors asked for and received Everson's resignation after it "concluded that the situation reflected poor judgment on Mr. Everson's part and diminished his ability to lead the organization in the future," the Red Cross said in a statement on its Web site.
Everson, 53, said in a written statement that he was leaving the $500,000-per-year job "for personal and family reasons, and deeply regret it is impossible for me to continue in a job so recently undertaken."
Everson -- who is married and has two children -- joined the Red Cross as president and CEO last May.
The organization became aware of Everson's relationship with a female Red Cross employee 10 days ago, Chief Public Affairs Officer Suzy C. DeFrancis told CNN in a telephone interview.
-snip-
Everson had worked in the Bush administration from August 2001 -- including serving as commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service -- until he was hired by the Red Cross.
more...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/27/red.cross.resignation/index.html
Monkey...
Don't let your head explode. Or we'll have to call the janitor to do clean up on the DCP blog. Besides, I don't imagine Mrs. Monkey will be happy with the mess either.
Another church sex scandal/ criminal trial (this one is pretty sick from what little I heard from this TV clip)
Mark Day on the various meanings of "Thanksgiving"
PRESIDENT SIGNS DOCUMENT EFFECTIVELY MAKING IRAQ A COLONY OF THE U.S.
November 27, 2007
I’m not sure that I’ve read a more sickening document than the one that was released by the White House yesterday entitled 'Declaration of Principles for a Long-Term Relationship of Cooperation and Friendship Between the Republic of Iraq and the United States of America’. Encapsulated in this document is the geo-political reality of what the Bush/Cheney administration and their neoconservative and Likudnik supporters had set out to achieve since the day George W. Bush became President of the US.
Far from 'liberating’ the Iraqi people from the 'yoke of tyranny’ for them to become a 'free and democratic’ model to which all other Middle Eastern states could aspire, which was the propaganda and rhetoric used by the neoconservatives that convinced the Coalition of the Willing that Iraq was a 'noble and righteous cause’, the declaration instead condemns Iraq to an endless occupation designed to enhance the power of the elite puppets of Iraq, and to ensure that Iraq’s resources remain firmly under American control and enriching American controlled oil companies. In short, the document is the instrument by which Iraq has effectively become a colony of the US.
There are several iniquitous points made in the document that betray the real intent of the administration but, in particular, point five of the second principle relating to 'the economic sphere’ which says: "Facilitating and encouraging the flow of foreign investments to Iraq, especially American investments, to contribute to the reconstruction and rebuilding of Iraq," and point eight which says: "Supporting the Republic of Iraq to obtain positive and preferential trading conditions for Iraq within the global marketplace including accession to the World Trade Organization and most favored nation status with the United States," says it all.
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WHO NEGOTIATED THIS TREATY??? OUR AMBASSADOR?? THE STATE DEPARTMENT? CONDI RICE???
I don't recall hearing anything about negotiating a treat with Iraq...
HEY, HOW ABOUT A NATIONAL REFERENDUM OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE ON THIS "TREATY"?????
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
speaking of euphemisms ..
remember when everyone started using the term WMD .. weapons of mass destruction? Did people continue to remember what that meant? What did it mean? Nuclear weapons? Chemical weapons? Both? All of a sudden, WMD, which is totally nonexplanatory.
& then how about IEDs - do most people think every single time that it means Improvised Explosive Device? If so, are they thinking exactly about what "improvised" means?
For that reason, I was especially glad to hear a local report about three guys who were killed in Iraq & NOT hear the euphemism IED. They were part of the 4th Stryker Brigade and the reporter called a spade a spade. He said THEY WERE KILLED BY A HOMEMADE BOMB.
An IED is a HOMEMADE BOMB.
WMDs can kill large groups of people, so they have to be nuclear bombs (big ones, not "dirty bombs" in suitcases) or chemical weapons (big ones, not some antrax in an envelope).
War, weapons, killing and death need to be called what they are, not some kind of acronym that doesn't get processed.
Re the Annapolis Peace Conference -
I heard Olmert interviewed by Robert Siegel on NPR and it occurred to me that Bush could have worked toward this conference from his first day of office. He could have campaigned with it in mind, had he been sincere.
Too little too late, I fear.
Kayakbiker had busy little hands while he was supposed to be preparing lectures. He wrote about toxic Christmas toys.
http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/silenced_majority_portal/2007/11/toxic-toys-repu.html?cid=91395718#comment-91395718
One in Four Blackwater Thugs was on Steroids
http://www6.comcast.net/news/articles/general/2007/11/27/Blackwater.Prosecutions/?cvqh=itn_blackwater
I'm not kidding.
Isn't this attractive, ladies?! or guys? (Maybe that's why they do it)
November 27, 2007 9:52 PM not my president said:
Sanitising war has become so commonplace that words now conjure up sanitised images of the quagmire that is Iraq. During the Vietnam war, daily images on tv and in the newspapers raised outrage. This sanitised language together with sanitised reports and photos of surge success, raises nothing.We need to get these images and the real, unforgiving language of mass murder into newspapers, billboards and television stations. I have no idea how to do that. But, until we are able to show the realities and nightmares of the current spate of wars, people will remain unaffected.
Show the children with missing limbs, blinded, emotionally damaged, the children of Iraq and Afghanistan, let the masses see and be disturbed by those images and let them shriek their outrage. Most of us will never forget that newspaper photograph of that screaming little girl running down the road in Vietnam, skin burning after her clothes had all burned away from her body. Napalm. Worldwide outrage came quickly when that photo reached all corners of the globe. And the United States was condemned by all.
We need the real images or horror and heartbreak. Well, we don't. We see so many that we can't understand why others don't see them too. I can't imagine that humanity has sunk to such depths. But each image tells me it has.
And what is this nonsense about GWB brokering a peace deal between Israel and the half of Pakistan that wasn't elected? That's like Hitler brokering a peace deal between the same parties. A warmonger doesn't stand for peace. Only profit.
"His Stupidness". Monkey, if you ever see my name on a book somewhere and you decide to read it please don't sue me for plagiarism. Some of your short phrases are so dead on the mark that I end up thinking of them as mine! "His Stupidness", is the winner so far. I'm wondering who will be conjured up by this title, in the minds of my Australian friends.
Just kidding monkey - I'd certainly attribute them to you - the monkey.
Chris Hedges | America in the Time of Empire
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/112707H.shtml
Chris Hedges writes: "All great empires and nations decay from within. By the time they hobble off the world stage, overrun by the hordes at the gates or vanishing quietly into the pages of history books, what made them successful and powerful no longer has relevance. This rot takes place over decades, as with the Soviet Union, or, even longer, as with the Roman, Ottoman or Austro-Hungarian empires. It is often imperceptible."
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/iceland-named-best-country-to-live-in/20071127091909990001
Rich free-market countries dominate the top places, with Iceland, Norway, Australia, Canada and Ireland the first five but the United States slipping to 12th place from eighth last year in the U.N. Human Development Index.
nmp - that's some comfort to think that Australia is at the top in worthwhile comparisons. In the most recent United Nations report we find that Australia is THE biggest per capita polluter in the world. The US is second. Needless to say, we are certainly happy to have got rid of Howard. To put himself right up there as a good buddy of the US president, he didn't ratify the Kyoto protocol either. And in fact until this year he was a climate change denier. AND he wouldn't meet Al Gore when he came here.
All who helped to oust the little moron, are lamenting that we didn't have the brains to do it in 2004. Well, some of us did. And we've never been sucked into this "war on terror" rubbish. But fear is a powerful motivator. Howard tried the fear game again and it worked in reverse.
Christy, Leyla is home but I don't know how to turn the flash off on my camera and so I get a big bright light on her somewhere. :( I can't find the book and I can't find how to do it with the PDF online instructions. I've checked all over the camera - with my glasses on - and still can't work out how to do it. Grrrrrr
It's good in a way. I thought I'd made really bad choices. But the *whole* is really growing on me. I chose a kind of Olde Worlde frame. It was in the mounting that may be a little too wide. The framer cut out the back of the mounting where your details are written - the name of the painting and your words to me. So, that's really nice. If I can work out what I need to tape over so the flash can go off but not affect the picture, I will. I'll do that tomorrow.
Darn Darn Darn I posted some interesting links on food for thought if anyone is interested, thought everyone had deserted me.
ALERT ALERT ALERT
Penny Coleman | One Hundred Twenty War Vets
Penny Coleman writes on AlterNet: "Earlier this year, using the clout that only major broadcast networks seem capable of mustering, CBS News contacted the governments of all 50 states requesting their official records of death by suicide going back 12 years. They heard back from 45 of the 50. From the mountains of gathered information, they sifted out the suicides of those Americans who had served in the armed forces. What they discovered is that in 2005 alone - and remember, this is just in 45 states - there were at least 6,256 veteran suicides, 120 every week for a year and an average of 17 every day."
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/112607B.shtml
My International girls
Thanks woz, I've always been looking for the phrase that pays!
RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) - Mohammed Naji’s son was killed by Israeli soldiers. Ron Kehrmann’s daughter died at the hands of a Palestinian suicide bomber.
Beyond their grief, the two fathers share something else — both are skeptical next week’s Middle East summit called by President Bush in Annapolis, Md., will do anything to end decades of conflict between their two peoples.
“I think it’s all a big waste of time,” Kehrmann said, saying the leaders on both sides are weak.
“This is not the first conference to be held,” Naji said. “None of these conferences produced peace.”
-snip-
Polls indicate most Israelis and Palestinians have little hope ahead of the Annapolis gathering, which is the first formal attempt to launch peace talks in seven years. More than 4,400 Palestinians and 1,100 Israelis have died in fighting since the last breakdown of talks.
Naji and Kehrmann lost their children in vastly different circumstances — and the deaths cannot be equated.
Naji’s son, Abdel Moneim, was a militant who was targeted by an Israeli undercover unit in 2004. Kehrmann’s daughter Tal was a 17-year-old girl killed four years ago while riding a bus on her way to shop for her high school graduation.
Naji has seven other sons in Israeli prisons, one of whom is expected to be among the roughly 450 Palestinian prisoners to be released in the coming days as a confidence-building measure ahead of the conference. Some 9,000 Palestinians are serving time in Israeli jails.
“I am happy he will be released, but I am sad that others are not,” Naji said.
For Kehrmann, the prisoner release touches the rawest nerve of all. Although the decision is in keeping with long-standing Israeli policy of not freeing those convicted in deadly attacks, he sees the militants set for release as “potential killers.”
Kehrmann said he doesn’t trust the Palestinians’ intentions and thinks it is a mistake to talk peace before the Palestinian leadership reins in militants and changes its mentality.
“We’ve been killing each other here for 60 years. Let’s give it a year or two of not killing and not talking and then we’ll see,” he said. “I don’t see any positive result that could come out” of the Annapolis meeting.
more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21940388/
Bush's top economic adviser to resign
Al Hubbard, chairman of the National Economic Council, joins growing list of advisers leaving the White House.
-snip-
Among other issues, Hubbard has been deeply involved in the debate over State Children's Health Insurance Program and Bush's proposal for a major shift in tax policy to, for the first time, treat health insurance costs as taxable income.
He has not yet announced his future plans.
Hubbard, who is married and has three children, has owned and operated several businesses. He served in the Bush-Quayle administration as executive director of a council on competitiveness.
more...
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/28/news/newsmakers/hubbard.ap/index.htm?cnn=yes
What's with all these Bushies resigning? (Both in his admin and in Congress?) I guess just follow the money and we'll see their motive.
Sparrow
Rats jumping ship! Or is it the new lobbying rules and they don't want to wait for the "two year cooling off" period after leaving public office?
On another note:
Here is an OpEd which I found downright insulting to the memory of RFK, who would probably have been President had he not been assassinated while running for office!
SOME BLOCKHEAD COMPARES RFK & CHENEY
http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/opinion/oped.apx.-content...
Abit of good news from Washington, for a change: Vice President Dick Cheney appears to have recovered quickly from a heart arrhythmia and is heading back to work.
Some are no doubt dismayed, not that the vice president remains vital, but that he continues to wield influence at the highest levels. This is, after all, a man who inspires deep passion and disquietude, despite his reasonable voice and grandfatherly demeanor.
The man of the left who most resembled Cheney was Robert F. Kennedy. Both men led lives as fierce partisans who waged epic battles in service of their beliefs. Both emerged as relentless champions of freedom at home and abroad. RFK and Cheney spent much of their careers in the shadows of the presidents they served. Both made mistakes -- as all formidable leaders do -- and both were frequent targets of slander from the opposition.
ROBERT KENNEDY radiated charisma and energy. Cheney, by contrast, emanates calm and wisdom. Kennedy met his adversaries with stirring rhetoric -- and sometimes ruthless cunning. Cheney relies on tightly reasoned logic -- and sometimes ruthless cunning.
History will no doubt remember little if any of the baseless "scandals" linking the vice president to the supposed misdeeds of Halliburton, the company he led in the 1990s. Nor will his top aide's court battle with a coven of media stars -- won by the media, of course -- merit more than a footnote.
For now, it's gratifying to know Cheney is on the job again, doing the hard work of fighting for what he believes is right -- and doing it with a combative brilliance and integrity that Robert Kennedy would certainly recognize and probably admire.
My Dad does it again! He's been fighting for this for years!!! Congrats!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Wellington council OKs negotiating with senior living center
Wellington to negotiate with company on land sale
By Stephanie Horvath | South Florida Sun-Sentinel
November 28, 2007
Wellington - A long-promised, long-awaited assisted living center may be coming to the village.
On Tuesday night, the Village Council voted 4-0 to negotiate with Sunrise Senior Living on the sale of 5.3 acres of vacant parkland Wellington owns on U.S. 441. Sunrise wants to buy the property for $5 million and build a 160-unit assisted and independent living center.
Councilwoman Lizbeth Benacquisto recused herself.
Wellington seniors, who've long demanded an assisted living center, exchanged hugs after the vote.
"I'm so excited," said Howard Trager, president of the Wellington Seniors Club.
-snip-
During the meeting several seniors demanded that the council move forward with the sale.
"We even have a dog park, and yet nothing for seniors. This council has given much verbal support in the past but no action," said Peter Granata, a resident. "If you should refuse this offer as well, I'd have to conclude you really don't want elderly people in this village."
more...
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/sfl-flppark1128pnnov28,0,7777241.story
Monkey, that's great news. I can see they did a great job of advocating for the center. It amazed me when I saw they had a dog park but nothing for seniors.
Congrat's to your dad and his band of fighting seniors. I noticed he's the president of the WSC. Couldn't we just install him as the President of the USA instead? It's just a few different letters. But the competency factor would greatly increase!
... and I've had a beer with him more than once, so he's definitely qualified.
But he's a decorated Air Force veteran with experience from the Cuban Missile Crisis on through to his service in Vietnam, so he'd probably get Swift Boated.
Hotshot monkeys* in science
By Craig Tenbroeck
(Mental Floss) -- It's a common theory that, given enough time (and food ... and ink ribbon), a million monkeys on a million typewriters will eventually bang out the works of Shakespeare. But that only goes for average monkeys.
Round up a few higher-class primates armed with an education and some travel experience, and we wouldn't be surprised if you got a masterpiece on par with Harry Potter or The Firm.
In fact, the following 10 hot-shot simians might even know enough to assemble a science textbook; in which case, they'd definitely need to leave room for a chapter about themselves.
more...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/worklife/11/26/famous.monkeys/index.html
I heard ten captains on NPR this morning, going on the record about their decision to leave the military because of the widespread corruption that is being fed, not decreased, by our involvement in Iraq. They reported basically that we are arming both sides of a future civil war because we can't stem corruption. These are men and women who chose military careers, became disillusioned after what they say, and are being called traitors by wingnut bloggers.
http://www.npr.org
Now read about the rent-a-geeks that were used by the investigator investigating Rove, to delete emails about whether Rove deleted emails
http://www.americanprogress.org
ADMINISTRATION -- WHITE HOUSE INVESTIGATES HEAD OF ROVE INQUIRY: The Wall Street Journal reports today that Office of Special Counsel chief Scott Bloch, who is "investigating Karl Rove's White House political operation, is facing allegations that he improperly deleted computer files during another probe, using a private computer-help company, Geeks on Call." His acts could be considered obstruction of justice. The allegations claim that Bloch "erased all the files on his office personal computer late last year." Bloch has previously investigated "the firing of at least one U.S. attorney, missing White House e-mails, and White House efforts to keep presidential appointees attuned to Republican political priorities." The White House has ordered an investigation into claims that Bloch "improperly retaliated against employees and dismissed whistleblower cases without adequate examination." Bloch "believes the White House may have a conflict of interest in pressing the inquiry into his conduct while his office investigates the White House political operation."
Gee, I'm stunned.
Chip off the ol' Bloch.
Oil Producers See the World and Buy It Up
WASHINGTON, Nov. 27 — Flush with petrodollars, oil-producing countries have embarked on a global shopping spree.
====
In 2000, OPEC countries earned $243 billion from oil exports, according to Cambridge Energy Research Associates. For all of 2007 the estimate was more than $688 billion, but that did not include the last two months of price spikes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/28/business/worldbusiness/28petrodollars.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Doesn't ANYONE raise an eyebrow when oil revenues hve gone throug the roof the last 7 years and, golly, there are 2 'men' in the White House with extensive ties to the oil industry?
PNAC Envy
Rossi and I are making plans to run away together someday. To Turin Italy.
I am just going to leave this mess georgie has left behind and learn to speak Italian.
Want to go with us Monkey?
Why Turin?
Ahhh. Good question.
no reason really except one of the most stunning finds ever. Perhaps the largest temple complex ever built, and it is not even dedicated to a God, just art.
In otherwords, only the '8th wonder of the world'.
Me and Rossi will miss yall so bad I am sure.
http://rossiannsretreat.blogspot.com/2007/11/eighth-wonder-of-world-stunning-temples.html
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Albert Einstein
BTW, no one knew it existed until a few years ago, except the ones building it.
It has now been 'nationalized' in the name of the Italian Government.
They just took it from them.
Ya know, my wife is Sicilian, so going with you could be a double-edged sword, and I think you KNOW what I'm talkin' about!
That's Amore.
Great, that means you can stay home and look after the cats, and we can take your wife with us instead!
Me thinks Mrs. Monkey may never come back.
Hey, they took a piece of my heart away, ya can't have my Nicolette, too.
Exclusive: President Bush
A "Situation Room" exclusive! President Bush joins CNN's Wolf Blitzer to explain why the time is now to resurrect Mideast peace talks. Today beginning at 4 p.m. ET
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/situation.room/
AN EFFECTIVE AD ON HEALTH INSURANCE BY THE JOHN EDWARDS CAMPAIGN AT YOU TUBE:
ADMINISTRATION -- WHITE HOUSE INVESTIGATES HEAD OF ROVE INQUIRY: The Wall Street Journal reports today that Office of Special Counsel chief Scott Bloch, who is "investigating Karl Rove's White House political operation, is facing allegations that he improperly deleted computer files during another probe, using a private computer-help company, Geeks on Call."
@@@@@@
Who is investigating the Special Investigator????
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Israeli-Palestinian statement read by President Bush at the start of Tuesday's peace summit in Annapolis, Maryland, amounted to a "public relations gimmick," said a legal adviser to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.
"The statement has a shelf life of two days," he said. "There's nothing new in it. Events will happen in the next two days that could change everything."
While al-Omari stressed the one-day conference gave him optimism about future negotiations, he said much of Tuesday was about stagecraft.
Diplomats from both delegations, including al-Omari, scrambled early Tuesday to piece together the statement. The final wording was approved only minutes before Bush's 11 a.m. address, in which he announced the agreement to reporters and diplomats, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said.
In the statement, Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert agreed to "immediately launch" talks aimed at creating a Palestinian state alongside Israel, and they hope to conclude talks by 2009.
"The document is as bland as people predicted it would be," noted a member of the Palestinian delegation, who asked not to be named because he was not authorized to speak.
"Success or failure will happen in the next couple of months," the delegate said.
Al-Omari said U.S. officials pushed for the joint statement because they felt they needed something "concrete" to prove "negotiations can proceed."
But the adviser said many in the Palestinian delegation felt the discussions were concrete enough without the statement.
Perino said that while having a document wasn't "critical to the meeting ... by having the document, it helped define ... the launch of the negotiations, which then helps define the success of the conference, so that others wouldn't define it for them."
Al-Omari and other Palestinian officials who helped fashion the joint declaration said the statement that arose from compromise included mentioning a timeline for establishing a peace agreement -- something the Israelis did not want.
That statement did not mention the details of the Arab Peace Initiative -- something al-Omari said the Palestinians were pushing for. The initiative includes specifics on the fate of Palestinian refugees and the status of Jerusalem.
Al-Omari said the Israelis dropped their demand calling for a "Jewish state" in the joint declaration two days ago.
Arabs and Palestinians have opposed calling Israel a Jewish state because, they say, it would preclude many Palestinian refugees from returning to Israel, and the label fails to account for thousands of Arabs living there.
Several Palestinians officials involved in the negotiations, but not authorized to speak about it publicly, said the reality of the difficult task ahead is not reflected in the joint declaration.
"We agreed to shorten it and keep it broad. To outline the general goals. While the Israelis wanted to avoid any mention of a timetable, we felt including many details would not enhance the goal of two states. Sanity prevailed. It was not worth the headache negotiating over language."
Another Palestinian official expressed hope that this time negotiations with the Israelis may prove fruitful because Bush is more convincing and more involved in the process.
"Bush was very emphatic -- 'I'm in this, I'm committed to this.' "
The official said he gave several reasons to the Palestinian delegation for his commitment to the process, most of them focusing on "spreading peace, fighting terrorism, and national security."
Bush also stressed that Mideast peace "was good for the U.S.," according to the official.
The official said the delegation was "impressed with his presentation."
more...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/28/mideast.analysis/index.html
btw, I noticed the Scotty McClellan story has vaporized as quickly as it appeared. Should sell a Bushload of books though when it's released.
Mission Accomplice
Oh and Woz,
No worries darlin. Me too am having setting probs on my camera. I have no idea how to set it for closeups.
And would you like to run away with us to the 8th wonder of the world? Mrs. Monkey will be there, if I can plot it right.
Mmmmm. Turin.
If I just correctly interpreted a rushed one liner from messenger, a new little Kangaroo is about to be brought into this world.
God speed little Rossi!
Ghoulliani is TOAST.
'In other words, as incredible as it might seem, Rudy Giuliani—whose presidential candidacy is steeped in 9/11 iconography—has been doing business with a government agency run by the very man who made the attacks on 9/11 possible. '
http://www.crooksandliars.com/
"Show the children with missing limbs, blinded, emotionally damaged, the children of Iraq and Afghanistan, let the masses see and be disturbed by those images and let them shriek their outrage. "
Good Idea. Unfortunately, we all know why this will not happen.
Do you know why I have deliberately avoided learning how to post pics or video on here?
Because the pictures I have and would choose to display would eventually get me kicked off this blog for being too shocking for 'the masses' to bear.
I dont post them because the pictures I have I can not even bear to see on a daily basis. If you SAW IT, if you were confronted with it every day... you would eventually stop looking, know why...because you can. Even a strong soul can only stand so much pain.
It is one thing to talk about it. Looking at it is a whole other thing that does not need any words beyond where and when it was taken.
If you REALLY REALLY want to see what it is we are all sitting here ultimately talking about, I suggest you make an entirely new blog section and ask Rossi to SHOW YOU. No words. Just images.
Why Rossi and not me? Because she is stronger than me. I can not bear it anymore. I am GUILTY of that and I can not get most of those images out of my head.
And, if she wanted too, Rossi could show you all of it. Her collection is probably the largest private collection of Iraq war photos there is.
But I am begging you to be careful what you ask for.
I think Rossi has shown a huge amount of self control, cause if I knew how to post the REAL pics shes got, I would have, just to make you see them.
Good thing I don't know how.
Maybe the place they should be posted is on Republican and "moderates" and "neocons" blogs. Maybe go post them at some of those anti-abortion sites--the ones that say they're pro-life and pro-Bush and pro-Republican 'cuz those dems are evil and ....
Chisty--His campaign isn't toast. They will find a way to glorify his actions at the same time as they swiftboat a democrat.
Christy, my abhorrence for war - and loud cries against war - was very much a part of me all my life. I don't need to see the most graphic images. I know in my heart that many children are now living in Iraq with atrocious injuries.
Joshua Key, who abandoned the American Military, and now lives with his young family in Canada, wrote of his experiences. In an interview with Tony Jones he tells this story:
There are so many stories like this one. I don't know how we get these stories out to regular folks when the msm is complicit in keeping the secrets.
Joshua believes that these atrocities occurred because of the way they were trained. They were trained to believe that everyone was the enemy. All Iraqis are muslims. That all muslims are terrorists. To kill first and ask questions later. No reports were ever written up about such incidents as this. At least not as far as he knows - and he was the lowest ranking combatant, so he probably wouldn't know.
Yes, sparrow, post them on Republican sites. That's where they belong. After all, they are responsible for this despicable carnage.
Sure, here's how "toast" Rudely is...
Poll: Giuliani a standout on terrorism in Florida voters' minds
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Rudy Giuliani, the front-runner in the Republican presidential race in Florida, is viewed by his party's primary voters there as the best candidate to lead the fight against terrorism, a survey released Wednesday says.
The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll conducted Sunday and Monday showed Giuliani, who is often introduced as "America's mayor" for his role after the September 11, 2001, attacks, was viewed by 53 percent of poll respondents as the best candidate to address terrorism.
moron...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/28/florida.issues.poll/index.html
Now, this pretty much sums how how incredibly demented the voters are ('specially most Floridiots)... pls explain to me how his so-called stellar performance in the daze after 9/11 has any damn thing to do with combating terrorism????
Toastmaster General
Oh Snap!
Trent Lott's Brother-In-Law, Nephew, Indicted On Federal Bribery Charges
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/11/28/trent-lotts-brotherinl_n_74572.html
Why...is that not damn interesting or what?
U.S. cannot impose vision on Mideast, Bush says
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush on Wednesday told CNN he would personally "facilitate" peace negotiations between the Palestinians and Israelis, saying the formation of a democratic Palestinian state was the best way to bring peace to the region.
"A democracy on Israel's border is important for Israel's security and that very democracy is important for the Palestinians to have a hopeful life," Bush said. "It is also important for the broader Middle East."
-snip-
When asked whether the peace process can overcome opposition from Hamas, Bush said "the best way to defeat those terrorists and radicals ... is through a vision based upon liberty."
"Ultimately, if this can be done, if the state can be laid out -- what the state should look like -- then it gives people like President Abbas the chance to go to the Palestinians and say, 'You can have their vision of violence or this vision of peace, take your pick.' "
"America can't impose our vision on the two parties," Bush said.
"If that happens, then there's not going to be a deal that will last."
When asked by Blitzer what he would do to advance the negotiations, Bush said "it depends on the circumstances." But, he said he thought a personal visit to the region would not further the peace process.
"It is working with the principals, Prime Minister Olmert and President Abbas -- that's how you get things done. Now if I have to call them together, I will."
Bush said the attendance of numerous Arab states, including Saudi Arabia and Syria, at Tuesday's summit was "quite an accomplishment."
Asked why Syria, which the United States accuses of funding terrorism, was invited to the conference Bush said other Arab nations requested it and that "We wanted to make sure as many Arab nations came as possible."
"We have our differences with Syria, no question about it."
When asked why Iran's leadership was not invited to the conference, Bush said "they would not be constructive" and "weren't going to come anyway" based on recent comments from President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
"This is a man who doesn't believe in democracy and freedom and peace," Bush said. "And this was a conference of people who are supportive of the idea of a democratic state living side by side with Israel."
Bush stood by his previous assertion that the United States would support Israel if it was attacked by Iran, but would not elaborate on what that support would entail.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/28/bush.interview/index.html
FREEDOM PEACE LIBERTY HOPE VISION
FREEDOM PEACE LIBERTY HOPE VISION
FREEDOM PEACE LIBERTY HOPE VISION
Ok then the taxpayer sponsored adulteress sex trips will do him in then.
It is about SEX and money, so we know they will pay attention to that.
vote ghoullianni and he will bill you for his libido adventures!
Yeah, I am sure that will work out real good for him.
I heard Rudy is ProState.
HAHA!
Silly Monkey! The only 'state' he is a pro at is the state of denial.
OMG LOOK!
I remembered I read something the yesterday about Lott retiring... LOOKY
Mr. Specter suggested Mr. Lott has been experiencing "financial problems" since Hurricane Katrina destroyed his beachfront home in Pascagoula, Miss., in 2005. Soon after, he involved himself in a class-action legal dispute with State Farm Insurance, claiming the wreckage was caused primarily by the high winds and not by flooding. Many homeowner's policies don't cover flood damage but will cover wind damage.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07331/837038-176.stm
And about his brotherin law and nephew! From the Huffpo link I posted
"According to the 13-page indictment, Scruggs and three other attorneys -- including Lott's nephew Zach -- attempted to bribe Mississippi Third Circuit Court Judge Henry L. Lackey with at least $40,000 in cash.
'Lackey was assigned to hear a lawsuit in which Scruggs' firm was named as a defendant in a dispute involving $26.5 million in attorneys' fees stemming from a court settlement with State Farm Insurance over Hurricane Katrina claims.
The indictment alleges that the bribe was intended to resolve the case in Scruggs' and his firm's favor. Also charged were attorneys Sidney A. Backstrom and Timothy R. Balducci, as well as Steven A. Patterson, an employee of Balducci's law firm."
HEEHEHE! Guess now we know why he did resign!
Trent Lott is a scumbag... in his resignation announcement, he said he might go into teaching, as the son of school teachers, or he might manage his sons budding musical career.
No doubt, he's gonna hit the lecture circuit, commanding big bucks from tards who will lap up his pile o' bile, or he will join a lobbyist firm in DC to scoop up oodles of cash doing to voters what he's been doing to them on a paltry senators salary all these years.
I can hear the theme from Deliverance in the distance.
I would say, 'Not if he is indicted' but I guess you have convinced me Monkey.
There is no reason at all to keep going because NOTHING we do will matter.
So, nevermind, I guess.
BTW Christy... saw yer note to Time yesterday...
I just sent Time-Warner cable an ass ripping note... I've had satellite for yrs until I moved to NC... one of the biggest football games of the year is being shown on NFL network tomorrow night, and there is some big legal battle between TW and NFL with the ever so helpful FCC involved. Bottom line, one of Americas premier entertainment outlets is gonna leave millions of people in the dark.
Told em not to bother sending me the obligatory "we apologize for the inconveniece" form letter.
Corporate America screws the consumer everytime.
Sorry C, didn't mean to spread the feeling of helplessness, but really, does anything we say or do make a damn bit of difference anymore?
MASSIVE displays of outrage is the only answer I can come to, and I have zero faith that this nation has it in them to pull off something that revolutionary.
Sucks to be us.
I can hear the theme from Deliverance in the distance.
said Monkey
Squeal lak a pig!
Christy
Never count ANY Repuke out.
Evenin' all,
JUst back from Wednesday night pot luck at the Code Pink house, where a full house prevailed. We had some visitors from furrin' parts, in town for the Anthropology Assn., and these three women were addressing a range of ideas around the notion of a feminist gifting economy--as in barter, share, support each other.
I believe we are all, by necessity heading that way, and those of us who can figure out how to live in less hierarchical yet individually evolved communities will prevail. I like to think the DCP is an online example of such a community.
As for Turin, I'm in.
PLEASE watch this video: such clarity!
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/112807A.shtml
Ok - I give up. Christy - go here:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2072544177&size=m
I could only get the light spot out by standing skew -wiff from it. I think the main problem is that I had it covered with non reflective glass. I move a lot and didn't want it to get damaged. it's easier to replace glass than a painting.
I've spent long enough trying to puzzle out her left side (viewer's right side). How is she standing/sitting? Her arm positions?`
Oil prices soar after deadly fire at pipeline
Fire is along the Enbridge Energy pipeline in northern Minnesota
CLEARBROOK, Minn. - A deadly fire at a pipeline from Canada that feeds oil to the United States sent oil prices soaring Thursday.
Two workers fixing the underground pipeline were killed when fumes apparently escaped and ignited the blaze, said Kristine Chapin, a spokeswoman for the Minnesota Department of Public Safety.
more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12400801/
When will this country ever friggin learn?
Decades of making the "treehuggers" out to be hippie fanatics, and now suddenly, everyone thinks it's en vogue to "go green", with corporate advertising now jumping on the bandwagon.
Guess who's been CORRECT all along???
Guess where this country would be today if alternative energy resources were developed and actually utilized?
Guess what part of the world we wouldn't be invading and plundering illegally?
Guess how many people would not have been killed?
Guess what country would still be looked to for ideas and innovation?
Guess how many so-called natural disasters would not have occurred?
They don't call it crude for nuthin'.
October foreclosure filings surge
More than 50,000 lost their homes in October; foreclosure rates expected to rise in 2008 as adjustable-rate mortgages reset.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Foreclosure filings have nearly doubled from a year ago and more people could lose their homes in 2008, according to a report released Thursday.
In October, 224,451 foreclosure filings were reported nationwide, up 94 percent from October 2006 and up 2 percent from September, according to RealtyTrac.
In the month, 53,609 U.S. homeowners were forced out of homes repossessed by banks, up from 20,768 a year ago, the firm said. Through October, a total of 309,557 homes have been repossessed by banks leading to forced evictions.
"Some people are in over their heads, owing more than what they can sell their house for," said RealtyTrac spokesman Daren Blomquist.
For the full year, RealtyTrac expects 2 million homes to have entered the foreclosure process - including bank repossessions, default notices and auction sale notices.
Foreclosures could hit homeowners even harder in the beginning of 2008, Blomquist said. Homeowners experiencing trouble in the fall may not see a foreclosure notice until the January or later, he said.
On top of that, adjustable-rate mortgages are scheduled to reset in greater numbers through 2008, sending homeowners' monthly mortgage payments higher, possibly to unmanageable levels.
"The other side of the vise pressing on these people is that it's harder to refinance because lenders' standards are tighter," Blomquist added.
more...
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/29/real_estate/foreclosure_activity/index.htm?postversion=2007112905
So much for The Bush "Ownership" Society, eh?
So much for The Bush "Ownership" Society, eh?
Monkey
Sounds more like the Dirty Thirties.
I went to mail a Christmas package at UPS and a woman was trying to send off something to Countrywide or her house would be foreclosed on, but only had a PO Box, which they can't use.
My son just left for a new job. He is a college graduate and has been looking for 4-1/2 months. This job pays $7.25/hour (he will still keep looking) so that means it's $3/hour LESS than I made at his age -- in
1977! That is 30 years ago! If he gets his "dream job" he will make twice as much, but in today's dollars, it will have less buying power than what I made.
20 years ago we bought a house for $70,000. He would not have to pay at least 5x as much for a house and at least 3x as much for a condo.
Both my husband and I are underemployed for our education. Neither my son, nor either of my brothers and their families have health insurance.
Where is the "American dream?"
I meant "not" instead of "now" - above
as in "would not have"
Where is the "American dream?"
Funny you should ask.... or not.
The (Impossible) American Dream
Many Americans may not think they've achieved financial success, but the reality is that the United States is more prosperous than at any time in history.
Newsweek
Nov 28, 2007
Few phrases in our political vocabulary are more abused than "the American dream." The standards for achieving the dream have become so open-ended and expansive that, inevitably, we must fail. Does it mean becoming a homeowner? Enjoying increased living standards? Having "opportunity"? Rising above your parents' class? Achieving economic security if you "play by the rules"? Or all of the above--and more?
It's a mushy concept that inspires endless debates over who's been cheated and why. What's lost in these noisy controversies is the bedrock reality that we're more prosperous than at any time in our history. But the selective and highly critical reading of economic and social trends distorts our vision.
more...
http://www.newsweek.com/id/72618
monkey
The US has all the wealth then some more, but it's very concentrated.
Of course, there is the socialist moonbat notion of wealth redistribution...
The other thing about my son is that even though he's making about 60% of what I did at his age, he is paying twice as much for a studio apartment as three of us paid for a two-bedroom apartment.
At that time, we had a chance to buy a four-bedroom house for $40,000 and passed it up. Now that will buy a vehicle, possibly. I expect we will see more people living in their vehicles, assuming they haven't been repo'd.
Gas is sixty cents more per gallon here than last year at this time.
Apples are triple what they were last year at this time here and we grow them here!
I think the American Dream has turned into things like housing foreclosures, methlabs and MRSA epidemics in schools.
NMP
One reason I've been unable to move yet is because of the high rent, as well. I make $60K/yr base, and more in bonuses, yet not many apartments are within my range (either that, or I'll have to forget about building a savings account).
And yes, even cars are pretty darn expensive these days. 20 years ago, $10K could get you a nice car. Now, $10K can only get you a Korean neoliberal POS (even then, only after discounts), and even inflation-adjusted, not much more. A decent car can easily go over $30K.
I don't know how people even survive in the low-income right-to-work states, like Arizona. If I moved there right now, I'd take a 50% income hit right away.
The problem is that the Republicans are flooding the nation with partisan-favored immigrants, above and beyond the nation's ability to absorb them. Why the Republicans are lashing out at their wet dream (immigrants) is completely beyond me.
As for underemployment...
Go to Arizona, and you'll see college grads doing call center jobs at $8/hr.
That's how I used to subsist for several months myself.
Hate to keep carping about Arizona, but a red state that locks up W opponents in mental wards can't go unpunished.
It's easily the most corrupt excuse of a "state" I've ever seen. Only Alaska comes even close.
Now, Arizona wants to audit my family business - in CALIFORNIA - because it did a federal project in Yuma without an Arizona contractor's license. The thing is, with federal short-term projects, as long as I don't have a permanent office in Arizona, I don't need an Arizona license - California license is sufficient.
Arizona's transportation department (DMV, called MVD there) also gave me bureaucratic nightmares, both when I moved there, and when I moved back to California, in regards to my car's registration.
This is one Republican state that is easily anti-people AND anti-business.
And they are so damn proud of their gun culture (gun control is a very sorry joke in Arizona)... as if they had anything worth defending.
I am watching Mitt Romney in the debates..
I am wondering:
How wacky are Mormons, again???
No Alcohol...
No coffee...
no tea...
no smoking....
no dancing?????
how about singing??? it's allowed right - Mormon Tabernacle Choir etc...
yours curiously,,,,,,,
Ralpheh
I don't advocate stereotyping adherents of a particular religion.
Even if we're talking about the Mormons, who shoved their version of morality through various states in the form of gay marriage bans, and maintain a paramilitary force to murder prominent LGBT activists.
On the other hand, you all may not be aware that Utah has the most arts education (including DANCE) in the public schools of any state. The Mormons may be bigoted neocons on many subjects, but they truly want their children to be engaged and creative. The same perspective is true of Mike Huckabee too, btw. He maybe whacko, but he truly gets the arts and arts education.
I am still processing the neocon/arts agenda to see what is really going on.
Karen
Didn't know about Mormon arts spending. Thanks for mentioning.
On another note... Henry Hyde is dead.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7119561.stm
Leahy: Rove, others must comply with subpoenas
WASHINGTON (AP) -- A Senate chairman acknowledged explicitly on Thursday that President Bush was not involved in the firings of U.S. attorneys last winter and therefore ruled illegal the president's executive privilege claims protecting his chief of staff, John Bolten, and former adviser Karl Rove.
Sen. Patrick Leahy directed Bolten, Rove, former political director Sara Taylor and her deputy, J. Scott Jennings, to comply "immediately" with their subpoenas for documents and information about the White House's role in the firings of U.S. attorneys.
"I hereby rule that those claims are not legally valid to excuse current and former White House employees from appearing, testifying and producing documents related to this investigation," Leahy wrote.
The ruling is a formality that clears the way for Leahy's panel to vote on whether to advance the citations to the full Senate.
The executive privilege claim "is surprising in light of the significant and uncontroverted evidence that the president had no involvement in these firings," Leahy, D-Vermont, wrote in his ruling. "The president's lack of involvement in these firings -- by his own account and that of many others -- calls into question any claim of executive privilege."
more...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/29/senate.prosecutors.ap/index.html
Karen said:
On the other hand, you all may not be aware that Utah has the most arts education (including DANCE) in the public schools of any state. The Mormons may be bigoted neocons on many subjects, but they truly want their children to be engaged and creati
@@@@@@
I was under the impression that Republicans - not just Mormons - hated/disliked/distrusted the arts including dancing. They constantly bitch about the National Endowment for the Arts, Hollywood liberals or funding for Public TElevision etc..
BTW, that reminds me, aren't movies forbidden as well by the Mormons??? How about television etc...??
BTW #2 I don't mind carefully generalizing about religions. Especially since I can't have a heart to heart talk with either George Bush or Mitt Romney on the matter... I am reading "American Theocracy" by Kevin Phillips right now... some of the stuff is rather shocking..
I lived in Utah for over 4 years.
As far as the mormons themselves they are uptight and wacky as any republican bunch, however...
Unknown to most people, the actual society they created is propably one of the more tolerant and progressive in the USA. Yes they have wierd ideas, but they also know better than to be hypocrits. Unlike say, baptists.
I personally think it it the question of multiple marrige partners that makes them more tolerant, because they understand they can not condone it while also taking away other peoples civil rights.
The mormons creeped me out more than once, they do control the entire state, but they also have one of the best societies I have ever lived in.
The mormons never go second class on anything and they are not afraid to put their money where their mouths are.
Ralph, there are two types of mormons...
Actually three.
The mainstream mormons which makes up more than half of their population, they are really not much different to me than catholics.
Then you have the 20% that are CRAZY and have funny ideas of women and God and unfortunately these radicals are direct descendants to the power center of the church itself.
Then you have 'jack mormons' who are either born or were mormon but left the fold. These jack mormons are given absolute leeway to do as they please with their lives and the mormon church has always been very tolerant of them knowing one day they may return to the fold.
I have to say of all the religious people I have known, Mormons were the least likely to be hypocrits.
Here is something Ally probably does not know..
Utah has a HUGE gay and transgender population.
And as far as I could see, the mormon church never tried to hide or condem them.
I have never seen so many openly gay and transgender people in my life as when I was in Utah, and even the radical mormons seemed completely unconcerned with their presence.
Ralpheh
That's why you shouldn't be so quick to generalize. The Republican Party is a big tent of different people (so is the Democratic Party), so lots of different ideas live under that tent. That includes funding for certain arts.
The only forbidden movies in the Mormon world are those with sexual themes. You could buy, in Utah, a version of Titanic, with the scene of Kate Winslet posing nude for a portrait erased out.
Same goes with entire states and immigrant demographics. California isn't all blue. Many Latinos are actually Republicans.
... and quite frankly, anyone who can handle more than one wife at a time has magical superpowers.
monkeyducks
Christy
The Mormon paramilitary purposely put the wrong fuel into the airplane of a transgender activist in 1980. The plane crashed, and she was killed.
The Mormon Church has been at the forefront of the gay marriage bans in all Western states.
There are many conservative, Republican transgender women out there (Mann Coulter included), yearning for a suburban white picket fenced house and a nice husband. Never mind that the marriage would be a sham, because it's considered an illegal man-man marriage by the federal and most state governments. Funny enough, they were the strongest supporters of the gay marriage ban.
Christy
Re: the Mormon-Catholic comparison...
That's what I was thinking too, after visiting a large Mormon church in Mesa, Arizona. Both the Mormons and the Catholics have a very hierarchal church system, and both use many statues - something the Protestants consider idolatry.
You are talking about the radicals Ally.
I know the inmates control the asylum. But I also know pretty much every mormon I ever met was PERFECTLY OK with gay marriage.
The mainstream mormons do not dare try to define other peoples marriages, cause then they would have to confront the radicals in control of their church.
As is often the case, what is said at the mormon pulpit, and how it actually works out in their society are very different.
The churches doctrine is OBVIOUSLY antigay, as is most religious doctrines. However the society these people rule over was hands down the most tolerant, and even the best administered place I have ever lived inside this country.
The radicals can control the churches doctrine, but what they can not control outside of church, they ignore completely unless someone emerges screaming and bleeding.
Christy
That's a very valuable piece of information to learn.
Perhaps it isn't so surprising to have Rocky Anderson as the mayor of SLC, once the tolerance you talk about is taken into account.
I want you to know, Rocky Anderson is actually THE RULE, not the exception among the mormons. Most people do not realize that.
It is absolutely no surprise to me to find a Rocky Anderson as the mayor of SLC.
I am not trying to endorse mormons, because like I said, they tended to creep me out too sometimes, but I would absolutely recommend to anyone to try living there.
They may be creepy on sundays, but the rest of the week they are by far and large very tolerant and as I said, that state is probably run better than any state I have seen and lived in.
There is one thing the mormon church will not tolerate and that is incompetence. And that is the exact reason why the mormons SEEM TO BE going blue against bush, but they are not really. They just are rebelling against his incompetence in governing.
MOVE ON PETITION:
Dear MoveOn member,
Have you seen the headlines? President Bush is quietly negotiating an agreement with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki to keep our troops there indefinitely--an agreement that could include permanent bases and a massive military presence for years!1 Bush is trying to tie the hands of the next administration to keep us in Iraq for the foreseeable future.2
This is a pivotal moment—the agreement is still in the planning stages and if we don't act now, we could be stuck in Iraq for decades.
It's critical to push Democrats into opposing this. Right now, President Bush's troop reduction plan has fooled some people into thinking we're headed toward an exit in Iraq—but this move makes it clear he's literally committing the U.S. to a war with no end. It's an extreme policy and Congress can stop it—but whether they do depends on how loud we are.
Can you sign the petition demanding that Congress act to stop the president from committing to a massive military presence in Iraq for decades? We'll deliver your comments to your representatives by the end of the week—there's no time to waste. Clicking here will add your name:
http://pol.moveon.org/endless/o.pl?id=11723-7895107-B86Ei6&t=3
After you sign, please forward this email to friends, family and colleagues—we all need to speak up together.
News reports indicate that the White House is negotiating an agreement with al-Maliki that could include permanent bases, a massive military presence in the Middle East, and dibs for U.S. investors, which "could provide a huge windfall if Iraq can achieve enough stability to exploit its vast oil resources."3 Talking Points Memo summed up the agreement best, saying:
"That means that during Bush's last year in office, the administration will work out the terms of the U.S.'s stay in Iraq in order to, at the very least, seriously constrain the next administration's options for ending the U.S. presence."4
Already Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senators Hillary Clinton, Chris Dodd and Barack Obama have begun to draw a line in the sand over this, saying that permanent bases are unacceptable. 5 But opposing permanent bases isn't enough. Democrats have to act to stop Bush's move to force us into an endless occupation in Iraq.
An agreement like the one that Bush is negotiating has implications beyond Iraq. Bush administration officials have indicated that a long-term presence in Iraq is necessary to deter what they call "Iranian mischief" in the region6—meaning that an ongoing commitment in Iraq could also pave the way to an escalation of war with Iran.
News of this agreement broke the very same day that the New York Times reported that the Bush administration is giving up on the benchmarks it had set for the Iraqi government.7 Giving up on these benchmarks means that there is no pressure on the Iraqi government to create political reconciliation. Combine that with news of this agreement, and we run the risk of having our troops bogged down in Iraq for decades.
This moment is critical and your voice is urgently needed. The agreement that President Bush is negotiating is still in the planning stages and if enough of us speak out we can get Congress to block him from making yet another reckless foreign policy mistake—one that could cost thousands of American and Iraqi lives.
We need to send Congress a message they can't ignore: Block an endless war in Iraq now—before it's too late. Click here to add your name.
http://pol.moveon.org/endless/o.pl?id=11723-7895107-B86Ei6&t=4
Thanks for all you do,
–Nita, Justin, Tanya, Wes, and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team
Thursday, November 29th, 2007
Sources:
1. "White House Releases "Principles" for Permanent Iraqi Presence," Talking Points Memo, November 26, 2007
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004772.php
Press Gaggle by Dana Perino and General Douglas Lute, Assistant to the President for Iraq and Afghanistan, November 26, 2007
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3206&id=11723-7895107-B86Ei6&t=5
2. "White House Releases "Principles" for Permanent Iraqi Presence," Talking Points Memo, November 26, 2007
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004772.php
3. "Iraq to Seek Long-Term US Presence," Associated Press, November 26, 2007
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3207&id=11723-7895107-B86Ei6&t=6
4. "White House Releases "Principles" for Permanent Iraqi Presence," Talking Points Memo, November 26, 2007
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004772.php
5. "Dodd Responds: No Permanent Bases in Iraq." Talking Points Memo, November 26, 2007
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3208&id=11723-7895107-B86Ei6&t=7
"Hillary to Bush: No Permanent Bases in Iraq," DailyKos, November 27, 2007
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/11/27/145834/22
"Obama Responds To Permanent Bases Story—Falls Short Of Full Opposition," Talking Points Memo, November 27, 2007
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3209&id=11723-7895107-B86Ei6&t=8
"President Should Take Responsibility for His Failed Iraq Policy," Speaker Nancy Pelosi, November 26, 2007
http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=959
6. "U.S. and Iraq to Negotiate Pact on Long-Term Relations," New York Times, November 27, 2007
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3210&id=11723-7895107-B86Ei6&t=9
7. "U.S. Scales Back Political Goals for Iraqi Unity," New York Times, November 25, 2007
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3211&id=11723-7895107-B86Ei6&t=10
That's why you shouldn't be so quick to generalize. The Republican Party is a big tent of different people (so is the Democratic Party), so lots of different ideas live under that tent. That includes funding for certain arts.
@@@@@
Are you kidding??? Big Tent???
THE REPUBLICANS ARE XENOPHOBIC - they have taken xenophobia to new extremes. They hate:
Blacks
Mexicans
Europeans
Arabs
Gays
they are basically anti-woman
And here is the latest on the Republican Xenophobia front:
The rightwingnut Christian/Republicans want to "Perfect" the Jews!!!!!!!!!! I.E. convert them....
(a la Annie Coulter..)
Do you know what really struck me as different about the mormons than any other religion?
They don't hellfire and brimstone condemn 'sinners'. They totally have the attitude that even though you are a 'sinner' you can be saved and are worth saving.
Most church people down here are exactly the opposite, and just the fact you are a 'sinner' is enough for them to absolutely condem you for it here on earth.
The mormons actually seemed to want to deal with your sins and want to give you what you need to overcome it, the baptists or the catholics just enjoy telling you how dirty you are for daring to be a sinner.
I guess I have to tell my Log Cabin Republican story again about Gays in the Republican party:
In 2004, there was a systematic, national effort by rightwing Republicans/Christians to ban gay marriage by using state referendums (and to fire up their rightwing base of support) - my state, Michigan, had such a referendum, so did Ohio and nine other states.
In 2004 in my area, there was a bitter Republican primary contest to determine which Republican would fill the open congressional seat in my C-district. During the campaign, the six Republican candidates went out of their way to see who could bash gay marriage and gays the most. Local Talk(hate) radio helped with the gay bashing (as they are doing now with the Mexican bashing).
Watching all of this unfold and rather disgusted at the spectacle, I called the Log Cabin Republicans in New York to tell them about Michigan's referendum on gay marriage and the gay bashing among the Republican candidates in my congressional district. I asked the Log Cabin Repubs about PRESIDENT BUSH - THE LEADER OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
They told me on the phone THAT THEY REFUSED TO ENDORSE OR SUPPORT PRESIDENT BUSH!!!!
Postscript:
NONE of the Republican 2008 presidential candidates went to the GLTB debates held in California this year..
NOT A SINGLE ONE.. that does not look or sound like a big tent to me... sorry..
Christy,
Not the way my former neighbor's mom use to treat my former neighbor. They were Catholic but the guy's mom kept telling both of them that they were going to go to Hellif they didn't convert. (And the fact that G went to church every Sunday and took communion once a week didn't prevent her from getting threatened with fire and brimstone.)
I think that just goes to show you that it's not the group that has one intent but it's how individuals chose to interpret things and their choice on how to behave towards others.
Ralpheh
The Democrats have their fair share of homophobes too.
And the Republicans are still the Big Tent of sorts, because the homophobes are NOT all US-born white and Christian. In fact, until W started baiting the Muslims, Muslims tended to vote Republican due to the shared homophobic values. (And you've heard from me too many times about the Koreans.)
Now that surprises me, or should it?
Robert Kennedy Jr. endorses Clinton
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/29/robert-f-kennedy-jr-endorses-hillary-clinton/
Ralpheh
More on Republican "xenophobia"
It wasn't the Democrats who brought in unneeded extra immigrants, from cherry-picked partisan nationalities, to crash American workers' wages and depress the living standards.
The Republicans can claim to be xenophobic all they want, to please the base, but the truth is, they are the biggest beneficiaries of the current immigration mess. They are having their cake and eating it too.
And this won't stop until every American lives three families to a bedroom and fifty people to a toilet.
New Thread
I am being blocked on What's on your mind
Crazy computer here at school Rossi. Think I fixed it.
Nope, still can't post what's on my mind...
Although it's possible there's nothing in there.
Ok. Gang. I guess you'll have to post what's on your mind here, because the thread isn't working correctly-possibly due to the settings here at school. I have to disappear until 7:30. And my transmission died today and i need to kick my car some. So I will try to check back around 8:30pm. Sorry about this, but I've got people needing me here at school.
Why do I keep screwing up when I try to post a pic here? Is it my prehensil tail?
Bush: Pentagon planning layoffs, cutbacks
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush on Thursday called on Congress to approve billions of dollars in additional funding for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan before lawmakers leave for their Christmas break.
He said the Army will have to shut down bases and start furloughing between 100,000 and 200,000 civilian workers by mid-February if Congress does not clear the funds.
"Pentagon officials have warned Congress that the continued delay in funding our troops will soon begin to have a damaging impact on the operations of this department," Bush said Thursday. "The warning has been laid out for the United States Congress to hear."
Defense Secretary Robert Gates already has ordered the Army and Marine Corps to plan for cutbacks, including civilian layoffs, termination of contracts and reduced operations at bases, The Associated Press reported.
A $50 billion war spending bill, which would have required U.S. troops to begin leaving Iraq within 30 days, passed the House but stalled last week in the Senate -- with Republicans balking at the withdrawal provision.
Speaking at the Pentagon, Bush called on Congress to approve the funds "without strings and without delay."
more on...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/29/bush.war.funding/index.html
That mutherfudder!!!!!!! He's threatening Congress that not signing the funding bill His Highness wants will cost 100,000-200,000 people their jobs?????
What a Dick.
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani has called a story raising questions about the accounting of his security expenses while he was mayor of New York a "hit job."
Late Wednesday, Politico.com reported city records show Giuliani billed New York City government offices for at least $34,000 in security and travel costs on trips to the Hamptons in his last year in office, with charges spread around departments under his control.
In its report, which Giuliani says might have been fueled by opposition research, Politico said it obtained the records through a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request. CNN was also able to obtain the same records.
"I thought the way the story was presented was like a hit job," Giuliani told CNN after the CNN/YouTube debate Wednesday night.
"Coming two hours before this debate, I kind of got the idea that it was not a legitimate story."
"I would not accuse any of my opponents of doing it," he said. "But who knows, it could be on the Democratic side."
more...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/29/giuliani.records/index.html
And when you get it monkey, will you please tell me what the trick is?
Monkey...is your picture posted on photobucket? Send me the attachment and I will fix it for you.
You can send it to silenceiscomplicity AT yahoo.com
testing comments
Ok. so the new thread has a different look. But it works now.