Irreverent Reverend Indy--A Homecoming and Darkness Falls

Hi Indy.

Hell yes and amen!

I am reposting this from last thread, cause I think it deserves to atleast be thought about.

You know what I wonder?

Why in Gods name would ANYONE video tape themselves torturing someone? Especially the CIA... Have you ever heard of our CIA taping ANYTHING that could be used against them?

I mean, think about it. Isn't that not the same thing as a pedophile taping himself raping a baby?

You know why I think they recorded it? For the viewing pleasure of none other than george w bush.

And dick cheney.

They recored it because someone higher up on the foodchain wanted to SEE IT.

And get off on it.

Ok....So here's the deal: Friday, I stole borrowed half of Monkey's words. So today, in honor of Sunday and our discussion and despair on the last thread, I'm completing my entry into the world of thievery and plagiarism by totally stealing all of Indy's words unedited.

But the Irreverent Reverend Indy's words of hope and loss from 2004 have always inspired me. Maybe they will you too.

Thanks Indy for the words in 04 that still stay with me today. Of course, bookmarking the site helps!

Christy
I think they would videotape the torture to have a record of the confession, although even John McCain has admitted people will say anything under torture.

As Daniel Shorrs of NPR (who is in his 90s now) pointed out, it wasn't necessary to destroy the tapes either, with the excuse being that it was to protect the identity of the interrogator (torturer). As he said, the faces could have been blacked out.

And as for protecting the identity of CIA agents, what about Valerie Plame?

Here is an illustration for the thread:

Oh geez...Christy, you posted before my confession .

Hopefully Indy is as inspiring and strong in NOLA.

Energy bill failed by 7 Senators.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/washington/07cnd-energy.html
53 - 7 more needed, at least

Exactly, if it was not about protecting CIA agents, then it was destroyed to hide a crime. A war crime.

But why would anyone tape themselves committing torture? The confession could have been taped AFTER the torture was inflicted, and the victim is sat at a table to repeat what he said while being tortured.

If they did not do it to 'protect' agents, and they could have gotten a 'confession tape' without showing you committing torture... The WHY record yourself torturing someone?

SOMEONE wanted to SEE IT.

You know what? If all these stories and accusations about bushs sexual deviancy is true....

The he is EXACTLY the type of sexual deviant that would get off on a torture tape.

And other than letting him see it, to get off, I can not think of a single reason they would have made tapes.

You know why I think they recorded it? For the viewing pleasure of none other than george w bush.

And dick cheney.

They recored it because someone higher up on the foodchain wanted to SEE IT.

And get off on it.

======

Sure as hell right on there.

GOD BLESS You INDY.

I will never forget, who held my hand, and tried to calm me down, on that devastating night November 4th 2004, on the DCP chat when another election was stolen, while I sat here Down Under and bawled for a week solid, not comprehending how another election could be stolens by those thugs in the White House.

I think Christy is right. They wanted to see it!

But also want to add...a confession under torture is not permitted in a court of law. So what are the implications of that? Could it be that they weren't going to wait for the law but they were just going to kill and use the confession as a way out of war-crimes charges?

There is a big market for war porn, apparently.

Are you commenting on my cajones??? Large cajones?? LOL - there is always room for improvement!!!

But you are right that by happenstance, I have talked face to face, very briefly, with two Republican Congressmen - Walberg and Schwarz - and needled them about Iraq. (I didn't get arrested like the Code Pink ladies but I made my points.) And I didn't even have to pay $100 and sit through a long meal to talk to them either...

Not to change the topic....

But China is concerned over the US Protectionism. Hmmm...call me suspicious, but that sounds like a threat my friends. And we all know who owns American bonds right now.

Actually they mentioned trade sanctions, but in reality the trade sanctions would force us to use our own workers and products. So I think the threat is not about trade.

I think it was monkey who commmented on those, Ralph. I would only comment on strong spines, myself.

;-)

Music from Fallujah
http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/silenced_majority_portal/2007/12/christmas-in-fa.html
Kayakbiker

Energy bill failed by 7 Senators.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/washington/07cnd-energy.html
53 - 7 more needed, at least
December 9, 2007 4:26 PM

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The Democratic Congress, in between the Senate filibuster and the White House vetoes, will end up accomplishing very little. This is partly why I am surprised that Mukasey wasn't tubed by the Dems.... just for pay back..

"Could it be that they weren't going to wait for the law but they were just going to kill and use the confession as a way out of war-crimes charges?"

But this is the thing, they had to know that any confession obtained by torture was legally invalid, nor will it be anytime soon. And how could taping them actually get them OUT of war crimes charges? It just proves that is EXACTLY what they did do.

See what I mean? The fact they taped it, in itself is an astounding revelation. It is equal too realizing the pedophile you are prosecuting literally recorded his crimes on tape.

But the ONLY REASON to make a torture tape, is the same exact reason the pedophile would tape his crimes.

So someone could see it. Rewind it. Laugh at their pain. Get off on it.

When has anyone here EVER heard of the CIA being so...blinded to the future.... that they actually would RECORD themselves torturing someone.

And there is no way the people in those tapes could stand in that room and NOT KNOW they were torturing someone. But yet, they let the tape roll anyway.

To me, the fact the tapes were destroyed is not surprising. The fact they ever existed in the first place is absolutely stunning.

I really have the most creepy feeling that it was done for someone to watch. Why else tape it?

It reminds me of those rich powerful deviants that order up a snuff film.

Oh yeh, duh Christy. You're right!

Ok. Maybe they were going to bribe the CIA?

We know for a fact the people at the very top of our government have something terribly wrong inside of them to do the things they do.

What if they LITERALLY are what they appear to be?

If I were a CIA agent, even an evil one. There is no way in hell you are going to get me on tape torturing someone. NO WAY.

So... Why did they do it when it implicates EVERYONE attatched to it?

I don't want to know who ordered them destroyed half as much as I want to know WHY they were made in the first place.

Do you really think georgie needs torture tapes to 'bribe' the CIA? Not at all. His daddys memory alone could extort them.

So...again, why then were they made?

That question gets more disturbing the more I ask it.

You guys actually trust the CIA itself?
Most people in the world don't and haven't for decades.

I've been out photographing an area of Seattle that is about to become gentrified with condos and lose its character and become generic and yuppiefied.

When I got home, Kayakbiker let me know Arianna Huffington had one of the big posters she was impressed by at the Google convention (and I put them up here) on the side of a building in NYC. It's from her site and I present it here.

While looking, I saw this compromising shot of Giuliani. I mean, it's nice if he met with foreign leaders but do you trust this man in the first place? Speaking of CIA, Bush's dad was head of it and Putin was head of the KGB . Same type, I'd wager. Read Palast about how nonchalant Bush Sr was when death happened (chapter on diamond mines in Africa).

Christy,
check email!

It is not a matter of 'trusting' the CIA. I dont, and I doubt anyone here does.

But this is my point. When a pedophile tapes his crimes, it flies in the face of every criminal rationality and sense of self preservation there is. That is why it is so astonishing to find them with those tapes, because what kind of IDIOT tapes himself committing a crime?

I do not however believe the CIA are idiots, but just like the pedophile, these torture tapes fly in the face of logic. What kind of people TAPE THEMSELVES COMMITTING WAR CRIMES?

They were not taping them to 'protect' themselves. They did not tape it to document and expose their own crimes. They had to know anything confessionwise obtained on them was legally invalid. And, in fact those tapes implicate everyone in them or with them of WAR CRIMES. They didn't do it to brag.

So...Why make the tapes then?

The only explanation that could possibly be left is because SOMEONE wanted to SEE IT.

Why would ANYONE want to see a torture tape? No one would, unless they are deviants that enjoy watching people be tortured.

War porn yes. But... who's porn?

Not the CIA.

Carol can do. Will start another soon.

My neighbor has a red music room. And she has become a collector. That Mozart will not be homeless long.

No worries.

You guys actually trust the CIA itself?
Most people in the world don't and haven't for decades.
December 9, 2007 7:57 PM

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Actually the CIA turns out to be far, far more trustworthy and honest than any of the Bushies. Valeria Plame, Joe Wilson, even George Tenet (who was privately saying that the CIA could find little or no evidence of WMD in Iraq), Ray McGovern, Michael Scheuer, Paul Pillar etc... ALL of these people were skeptical of the Neo Cons and some outright opposed Bush and Cheney. So much so that Cheney had Rummy set up his OWN, PRIVATE Intell Agency in the Defense Department called the Defense Intelligence Agency. (The DIA stuff went right around the CIA and directly to the president, without review or critique.) These were the folks that were regularly pumping out lies and propaganda.

There are two divisions of the CIA: one is covert operations, these are the James Bond wannabees/wackos. These are the folks that generally are breaking our laws and other countries laws etc...

The other division is information and analysis - this folks have been, for the most part, top notch. It is a shame that the Bushies have pretty much destroyed this part of the agency. Many of the good people have left in complete disgust and utter disbelief at how poorly they have been treated.

I AM GOING TO CALL PELOSI'S OFFICE TOMORROW AND SUGGEST

IMPEACHMENT

AGAIN..... AT LEAST, CHENEY...

Personally, I'm wondering why everyone thinks the CIA was even aware of the taping. Perhaps, the lower people were not, but the ones above, who set up the room and the scenario were.

But why would they set it up to tape themselves committing WAR CRIMES?

I can not imagine any CIA agent thinking this was a good idea.

Ok I get what you are saying. But still, let's say military intell set up a candid camera.

Again, why...? Why would anyone there, no matter their abc, why would anyone think it was a good idea to get it on tape, and why would they be there taping it?

The order to torture came from on high. I can only assume the taping of it too was also ordered...but why? And who would order up such a tape?

Other than a deviant that wants to watch, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Does anyone here believe those tapes were made without a DIRECT ORDER to make them?

So, who ordered it and why would they order such an unGodly thing into existance?

Oh My God! The Brits just declared the Iraq War OVER. Atleast for them.

GORDON Brown yesterday delivered a stirring festive message to Our Boys in Iraq: “Happy Christmas – war is over.”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article563496.ece

JUST LIKE WATERGATE - TAPES WERE MADE - PEOPLE FOUND OUT ABOUT THE TAPES - PEOPLE/CITIZENS WANTED TO SEE AND HEAR THE TAPES - TAPES ARE DESTROYED????

CNN ON THE TAPE SCANDAL

Impeach Cheney Res:

Again, why...? Why would anyone there, no matter their abc, why would anyone think it was a good idea to get it on tape, and why would they be there taping it?

The order to torture came from on high. I can only assume the taping of it too was also ordered...but why? And who would order up such a tape?

Other than a deviant that wants to watch, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
December 9, 20

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Police regularly record - both audio and video - their interrogations of suspects.... I don't find it strange at all.

According to CNN:

tapes were made in 2002 and destroyed in 2005...

Just back from watching the Repub debates. Story will be in the WaPo Tuesday. Meanwhile I will only say we had a great deal of fun and I still predict Huckabee, although he had some challenging moments tonight.

Ralpheh
I don't trust the government and I don't trust the CIA either and this has gone on since I was .. 15 years old (= 4 decades).

CIA did mind control experiments, used LSD on prisoners, tried chemical weapons on people, develop all sorts of evil things. Some of it was declassified little by little, and one article I read in Rolling Stone back in the '80s scared me so much I hardly slept for a week.

People all over the world have feared the US CIA for decades. If the US government started its own intelligence within the Pentagon or State Department (such as the Office of Special Plans), it was to get the "intelligence" they wanted, not because either group was any "nicer."

Here is the CIA's history of itself. They will make themselves look nice.
http://www.fas.org/irp/cia/ciahist.htm

Might benefit from a little counterpoint via IndyMedia:
http://www.neravt.com/left/cia.html

Here is the tin foil hat version for nightmares:
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/history-cia-atrocities.htm
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

The CIA and the Media
http://danwismar.com/uploads/Bernstein%20-%20CIA%20and%20Media.htm (old but true)

E Howard Hunt stuff, more nightmares
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1918.shtml

MK Ultra Mind Control, which they CLAIM they aren't doing any more
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1918.shtml
Ask Dick Cheney.

CIA Mind Control Experiments with Children
http://www.heart7.net/rappoport.html
Get out the tin foil again

CIA Mind Control video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSOOK3tocTk

Mind Control Experiments with LSD
http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/lsd-mc-cia.htm

CIA Germ Warfare experiments on People
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/experimentation.html

Christy over a year ago I watched an interview between a psychologist who was assigned to be present at interrogations of detainees at Guantanamo. He'd also quit that job and had trawled through hundreds of thousands of pages of declassified files of interrogations.

The question was asked - why were such detailed, minute by minute, blow by blow written accounts kept.

Answer - that's how things have always been done and always will be done.

Why did they keep videotaped records - for self-preservation and protection. Is the CIA really a law unto itself? I imagine a glimpse of one of these tapes with a tiny suggestion that to try and arrest or charge with crimes, would result in the uncovering of far more damning material to embarrass, implicate and crucify the entire administration.

I think I posted an Australian Age article a few days ago on the huge scam that is "Security Services" how much they cost and how little they achieve - like nothing other agencies haven't already revealed numerous times over. If the CIA was a credible source of information, those towers would still be standing wouldn't they? Or did they just forget to mention what they knew? Have a drunken memory lapse perhaps. Save money for health care - give up the CIA.

"Police regularly record - both audio and video - their interrogations of suspects.... I don't find it strange at all."

And when the police decide to smack around a perp...they always make sure the tape is OFF so they won't get caught.

They knew they were going to waterboard someone before they ever went into that room. There is quite a difference between taping an interrogation that is conducted by normal standards, and knowing you are taping yourself torturing someone.

That just don't wash either.

The Hidden HISTORY of CIA torture
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/1795/alfred_mccoy_on_the_cia_s_road_to_abu_ghraib
The Road to Abu Graib

History of CIA torture, w/info on what they did to David Hicks
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13597.htm

The Birth of Soft Torture: CIA Interrogation Techniques
http://www.slate.com/id/2130301/nav/tap1/
(illustrated)

CIA interrogation Hx: Vietnam, Honduras etc.
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/40/055.html

CIA Videotaping Interrogations .. almost every story starts with TODAY or this week, & talks about them destroying tapes. There seems to be no declassified history of them taping routinely.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/29193

Although I'm sure they do. Some detainees interviewed mentioned seeing video cameras on them. Who knows where they're held? One was interrogated in Thailand, for one. Why would they tape them? To get off on. As evidence, if they used "acceptable" techniques, for the confession. If war crimes, they would probably destroy them before they could be subpoenaed, discovered or leaked to the press. No doubt the CIA let it be known these had been destroyed before it was found out anyway. Weren't they actually subpoenaed and they acted like they didn't have them? ACLU under Freedom of Information? Was Congress lied to? & most of all - does Bush really "not recollect" anything? If so, he has to be lying or more senile than Reagan.

Woz
That's why everything is constantly "classified." They (authority figures) want to find ways they can be in power forever and keep all their secret stuff to themselves.

Ralpheh
I don't trust the government and I don't trust the CIA either and this has gone on since I was .. 15 years old (= 4 decades).

@@@@@@

I don't trust elected officials =

Nixon

Bush

even LBJ who concocted the Gulf of Tonkin incident

and this has been going on since I watched Nixon on television profess his innocence will his upper lip filled with sweat.

interesting note for conspiracy theorists: in the early 1960's, some wacko Air Force general proposed a fake shoot down of a passenger jet over Cuba to start a war with Cuba. JF Kennedy read the memo, and marked it "this guy is nuts" : the general was relieved of command and forced into retirement....

"Police regularly record - both audio and video - their interrogations of suspects.... I don't find it strange at all."

And when the police decide to smack around a perp...they always make sure the tape is OFF so they won't get caught.

@@@@@@

We already know that terrorism suspects were tortured. We have the Abu Ghraib photos and video tapes. These techniques were approved and condoned (if not ordered) by the commanding officers, the interrogation teams and the CIA. We have eyewitness accounts of abuse. There were deaths and abuse and torture at other military detention sites in Iraq and Afghanistan.

BTW:

I am betting the Senator Clinton will have no comment on any of the above - it hasn't been run by the focus groups and no polling has been done.

Senators Dodd and Biden may not have any comment either... Obama... I am still hoping...

I guess that leaves it up to Kucinich, Edwards, Richardson and Ron Paul?? Maybe McCain?

Ralpheh
That is certainly some good perspective and why most/many cannot be trusted. Power corrupts absolutely.

It seems like most of the articles r/t videotaping interrogations and destroying tapes are from the last 2-3 days and we need to keep it the top of the news. It is criminal.

From what I am gathering, reading what articles I can find, this disclosure about the tapes should reopen the issue of whether the CIA can use interrogation techniques more severe (torture) than other agencies. Congress has said NO in committee but has yet to outlaw said practices, the Senate has not acted, and the President may veto.

The only reason Hayden came clean was because the New York Times was going to out them about destroying tapes. Hayden's excuse is Al Quaida/sympathizers would retaliate against the torturers if they knew who they were. I read that Porter Goss DID NOT know the tapes had been destroyed (decision of Rodriguez) and was angry. What is the timeline with this and when he quit? Did Bush know NOTHING of the politics behind Goss quitting when he appointed Hayden? & Hayden says Congress was briefed in advance about the tapes being destroyed and Congress doesn't remember this, not even the very conservative Mr. Hoekstra and Jane Harman SAYS she said it would be a bad idea. Plus CIA in 2003 and 2005 said IN COURT that they did not have recordings of interrogations. The 9/11 Commission were completely surprised when they heard of the destroyed tapes.

Obstruction of justice, a very big deal.

Bush continues to defend techniques used (which many members of Congress/public consider torture), as legal and beneficial.

Waterboarding was used but is no longer on the "approved" list for 2006.

Hayden SAYS THE TAPES WERE MADE TO ENSURE THAT AGENCY EMPLOYEES ACTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH LEGAL GUIDELINES and that they stopped videotaping in 2002. He says they tapes were intended as an INTERNAL CHECK on the program in its early stages. He says they were destroyed after supervisors determined the interrogations were being done properly.

http://viviansalama.wordpress.com/2007/12/07/cia-destroyed-2-tapes-showing-interrogations/

Tom Malinowski, Washington director of Human Rights Watch, said General Hayden’s claim that the tapes were destroyed to protect C.I.A. officers “is not credible.” “Millions of documents in C.I.A. archives, if leaked, would identify C.I.A. officers,” Mr. Malinowski said. “The only difference here is that these tapes portray potentially criminal activity. They must have understood that if people saw these tapes, they would consider them to show acts of torture, which is a felony offense.”

Representative Rush Holt (House Intelligence) says CIA told him many times they did not record the interrogation of detainees. When he asked whether they had reviewed their tapes to better understand the intelligence they would say "what tapes?"

But the torture tapes are different. They were obviously ORDERED. No way you can get tape of a high level detainee being tortured, unless it was ordered.

But by whom and for what purpose?

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2007/12/08/politics/fromtheroad/entry3595063.shtml

WILLIAMSBURG, IOWA -- Senator Hillary Clinton said the Bush Administration's "incompetence" has led to the recent scandal involving taped interrogations of two detainees being distributed by the Central Intelligence Agency. The nation's top spy, CIA director Michael Hayden, said he had the tapes destroyed in order to protect the identity of the interrogators. However, CBS News has been told the video tapes were destroyed in order to avoid criminal prosecution of those involved.

"Everyday that goes by something new happens," said Mrs. Clinton. "Well the latest is the CIA destroying tapes of interrogations. They were told not to, they went ahead and did it anyway...time after time after time we see either incompetence or corruption."

Following her speech, Clinton hosted an impromptu media availability with the traveling press where she said she is calling for an investigation.

Here you can even see McCain talk about the CIA destroying tapes today on Fox.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316254,00.html

I don't think a Presidential candidate who gets on the bad side of the CIA will live to tell the tail.

As a matter of a fact Ralph, this is not the first tme I wondered if georgie was getting his rocks off watching war porn.

His reaction to the Abu Ghraib pics, there was one time he was asked about them, and just the way he reacted, this smirk and chuckle came over him, and it chilled my blood.

That was the first time I wondered if bush really was a sexual deviant that got off on pain.

As a woman, I know a sexually excited man when I see one. It made me want to vomit.

nmp provided links

History of CIA torture, w/info on what they did to David Hicks

Thanks for that nmp. I didn't persevere with that item when it was televised. I really cannot stomach Tony Jones - the Howard Government's lackey. At least he was. I'm not sure who is bribing him now. Luckily there is a woman on Friday nights in his place and she is far more fair-minded. Even in this interview Tony Jones tries to blame David Hicks.

After all, this could have been finished according to then Foreign Affairs Minister Alexander Downer, if Hicks would only do and say what he was told. Tony Jones and Alexander Downaslowascanbe congratulated each other when Hicks confessed so that he could finally come home. Hicks was, they chuffed, a self-confessed-terrorist.

No - it's rare that I last through an interview of Tony Jones.

The only reason Hayden came clean was because the New York Times was going to out them about destroying tapes. Hayden's excuse is Al Quaida/sympathizers would retaliate against the torturers if they knew who they were. I read that Porter Goss DID

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Hayden has just DESTROYED HIS REPUTATION by using this lame talking point. No one believes that this is the reason the tapes were destroyed

Bye bye Snoopy Hayden

Suskind argues that the Bushies/White House must have known.... Gonzales? Cheney? Dumbya? plausible deniability etc...

WILLIAMSBURG, IOWA -- Senator Hillary Clinton said the Bush Administration's "incompetence" has led to the recent scandal involving taped interrogations of two detainees being distributed by the Central Intelligence Agency. The nation's top spy, C

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HILLARY WAKE UP DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOT JUST INCOMPETENT

WRONG

LAWLESS

CRIMINAL

IMMORAL

CRUEL

SHE IS AWFUL................

Christy said

Christy said:
But the torture tapes are different. They were obviously ORDERED. No way you can get tape of a high level detainee being tortured, unless it was ordered.

Tapes and posters of badly tortured near-dead bodies were used to terrify other detainees. It is another form of psychological trauma. "We can make this look like a holiday camp compared with what we have planned for you."

I believe that torturers aren't too high in the intellect department, a video would be like the trophies of serial killers. After all - that's exactly what torturers are.

WOW - HAYDEN IN DEEP TROUBLE:

CBS NEWS:

Central Intelligence Agency. The nation's top spy, CIA director Michael Hayden, said he had the tapes destroyed in order to protect the identity of the interrogators. However, CBS News has been told the video tapes were destroyed in order to avoid criminal prosecution of those involved.

I tend to believe you can not be a torture without also being a sexual deviant. There are lots of killers that did not get off on torture. They got off on the sudden kill, not the screams.

But it is always the sexual deviants that inflict the most inhuman torture.

but either way, you are right that these tapes very much seem to be TROPHIES.

But for whom? The ones there did not need the tapes to relive the thrill.

Back to the subject:

I miss Indy greatly. Hope he is doing great work in the NOLA area.

Interesting survey re: the media, from GlobeScan, as reported by BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7134918.stm

Nothing surprising for us - Americans value free press greatly, but are very skeptical of current MSM, especially the owners' political leanings in case of private media.

Ralpheh

interesting note for conspiracy theorists: in the early 1960's, some wacko Air Force general proposed a fake shoot down of a passenger jet over Cuba to start a war with Cuba. JF Kennedy read the memo, and marked it "this guy is nuts" : the general was relieved of command and forced into retirement....

Fast forward to 1983, and under Reagan, CIA sent a 747 straying into Soviet airspace on purpose, to make the Soviets shoot it down, kill innocent people, and create an international incident.

Of course, neither Northwest nor Pan Am nor any other US airline wanted to provide that 747... so the CIA ended up using Korean Air.

The details of Korean Air Flight 007 were so odd (extremely obvious navigation errors), that only two conclusions can result: the pilots were incredibly incompetent, or they knew what they were doing.

Any airline that gambles with its passengers' lives for political gain ought to be put out of business.

That was the first time I wondered if bush really was a sexual deviant that got off on pain.

As a woman, I know a sexually excited man when I see one. It made me want to vomit.

======

I knew that back on the night the Supreme Court handed the deviate the White House in 2000.

Christy said

but either way, you are right that these tapes very much seem to be TROPHIES. But for whom? The ones there did not need the tapes to relive the thrill.

But they do, Christy. Who can forget Lindy Ingland's cigarette-in-mouth delight at the dilemma of her captives. Those photos were shown around to each other and boasted about to others I'm sure. Torture is sexual deviance and so is serial killing - many serial killers don't just catch and kill.

Serial killing is usually far more carefully planned and victim held for a period of time. Serial killers usually act alone. The thrill is in getting away with it. Hence the leaving of clues sometimes and almost always there is a storage of trophies. And it's almost always the case that serial killers escalate in terms of violence, the longer they are not caught.

Torturers rarely act alone - the acceptance of others - even those in authority - gives legitimacy to torture. The squeamish have no place in such a role. To fit in and be admired means that there is usually a real desire to be the most brutal of all. Competition is fierce - to be the best - and what better trophy to horrify people than a video.

I wouldn't say that all of the CIA is bad, brutal or acts illegally. But I would say that there are equally as many CIA operatives who act as much (maybe more so) outside the law as the Russian KGB did. Even more likely today than during the Cold War.

I feel kind of guilty putting up all those torture links and then going off to watch a documentary about Glastonbury festival.

I did feel a reminder that we were put here to celebrate life, not torture!

nmp said

I did feel a reminder that we were put here to celebrate life, not torture!

Absolutely nmp. I don't know about others, but I really don't need to go through each link. I know what's happened and still happens and find it abhorrent, but I don't need details of each individual case because I am not able to make a difference about it. We do need to celebrate life and liberty and most of all our safety at home.

And we do what we can do. The only thing we have is our voice, be it in person, in writing, in performance, in song. Our collective voice must continue the cry.

I speak with Indy often... he is indeed doing great work in NOLA, above and beyond the norm, as is the Indy way.

It's a helluva lot more than our piece of crap President has done, below and beyond the norm, as is the Dubya way.

Long live the Irreverent Reverend!

Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore greets children outside the Nobel Peace Center on Monday.

Gore to accept Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/12/10/gore.nobel.ap/index.html

Again, the pics taken at Abu Ghraib are different than these tapes. Those pics were taken by lower ranking soldiers in the most casual manner.

The tapes on the other hand had a purpose. There is NOTHING casual about their existance. And, considering who is on them, high ranking CIA and military intel, I would say these tapes were 'offical' products.

Unlikeat Abu Ghraib, someone ORDERED these tapes made, otherwise no way they would have let themselves be filmed committing war crimes.

As far as serial killers go, serial killers almost never keep their victims for long. The trophies they keep are locks of hair, drivers license, underwear, whatever. Having a live or dead body around is highly inconvienant. And serial killers do not plan as much as they simply stay fluid to opportunity.

BTK is a perfect example. He once went for a victim, then had to abort at the last minute. He walked away only to find a little boy down the street who just so happened to mention his mother was home alone. He then went again into predatory mode, walked rght in and even told the victim he was going to kill her because he had a 'sexual problem'. That was the one where he locked the boy in the bathroom and was throwing toys into him as he spent a few hours raping and killing his mother.

That is a perfect example of how a serial killer operates. Most of thier kills are planned and finished within a span of just a few hours.

Robert Charles Browne also described his kills as 'opportunities'. So did Ted Bundy.

These tapes though do not just show some kid with a camera phone caught up in a moment of brutal ecstasy. They were not only planned in advance of the torture, but they were then 'used' for something.

Otherwise, why else make the tape?

If it was just a matter of needing a few trophies to remind them, then we also would have gotten the same kind of spur of the moment pics taken at Abu Ghraib, instead of tapes specifically focused on high level detainees.

These tapes have always been in an 'offical' capacity and that is how they hid their existance so long.

But it still goes back to, why would you make tapes like that and what were thier purpose?

The Abu Ghraib pics are self explanatory. The tapes were 'used' for something...but what?

Christy,

Those are all very good questions. I suggest that all of us contact each member of Congress and ask them those pointed questions. If they don't know the answer then it's time for all Republican and Democratic public servants to hold impeachment hearings.

These are blatent war crimes and a coverup.

We should blog-swarm the action too, if you ask me.

AP: I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby's attorney says the former White House aide is dropping his appeal in the CIA leak case.

Hey, I wonder...

Was thinking about the Huckabee "surge", and was wondering if he had any foreign policy experience whatsoever.

Then I thought, well, Bill Clinton didn't really either.

Then I thought, does Obama have much?

Then I thought, hmmm, maybe NOT having any foreign policy experience is a good thing these days, given that the ones who supposedly HAD all that foreign policy experience have completed screwed the pooch.

No offense to the pooch.

p.s. The idea of an evangelical as president still scares the H.E. double hockey stix outta me.

See George W., Exhibit A Hole

Monkey
The word "surge" sure has become a fad. Never heard it much before the so-called "surge" into Iraq. It's the cliche of 2007.

I don't think the greedy capitalist pig businessman type of Republican wants a rightwing evangelical in office, just someone who will keep it so they have tax loopholes.

In this area, some of those types could conceivably cross the aisle to vote, because they aren't social conservatives, but it's quite a stretch.

It's odd when people say the two parties aren't very different, because there are at least two big factions inside of each of them. Then there are more Independents than Democrats or Republicans, and those are people who don't really want to be associated with either party.

I hear terms like DINO and RINO and know what people mean, but most of those are opportunists. Also you get people who are hard to read. Like both Giuliani and Romney used to support choice for women. They have probably changed for opportunistic reasons. Both McCain and Lieberman were concerned about global warming.

There are too many generalities around all over the place - too much black and white thinking. On the other hand, with all the strategizing and maneuvering and flip flopping and positioning by the candidates, it's hard to know who to trust. It's not hard to examine their records, but some of them seem to have multiple personalities!

As for whether President and Vice President should have foreign policy experience, I think they should at least be very savvy and have good advisors they can trust and good intentions. Add foreign policy experience to this and it would be a winner. Would like to see Bill Richardson in there somewhere. Like things about Biden and Dodd, and about Obama, Edwards and Clinton.

Kayakbiker made a very popular comment over at big orange. I'll find it.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2007/12/9/204946/957/5#c5

He said, "I'm white, I'm getting old and I plan to vote for the person who gets the democratic nomination." (58+ / 0-)

So if all of us baby boomers vote, could sway something, but then you have to factor in the cheating, redistricting etc.

Christy

Did you hear about the serial killer in Vancouver, Canada? He killed up to 27 women, mostly prostitutes and drug addicts, from the east side of Vancouver - "the poorest postal code in Canada" - and buried them in his ranch in the suburb of Port Coquitlam.

He was found guilty for six of the killings yesterday.

Can't find the link anymore though...

Christy
That's the pig farmer. I'm glad they got him. I know alot about that case and the Green River killer case and also Bundy because they all had victims here. Green River killer actually went up and partied with Pig Farmer - isn't that creepy?! I know other creepy stuff too creepy to even put on here for now.

Yeah nmp, good post. I used "surge" on purpose, btw.

I never heard so many new words and terms used by an administration that is "led", and I use the term loosely, by an individual who can barely articulate a complete sentence unless it's written for him or piped into his ear.

Christy and NMP

Here's an article re: the Canadian pig farmer:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7136095.stm

My uncle sent me this article about how .. we won't attack Iran? .. don't be so sure. It's from a Canadian site that is pretty radical! & he sent it to me twice.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7567

If you read the article, note that the author feels that Podhoretz and the neocons should look in the mirror when they call Ahmadinejad crazy, as they are openly calling for war, so are even wackier.

Bear in mind that Podhoretz is Ghouliani's foreign policy advisor.

Gore: Climate Missing in US Election
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL10180990
Hey yeah! This ought to be a big issue and tied to the war besides.

Also saw that Scooter Libby is not going to appeal his case.
So what happens?

CHAOS AND CONFUSION IN THE SENATE ON THE C.I.A TAPES:

Sen. Biden has called for a Special prosecutor to be appointed by Attorney General Mukasey (who, BTW, doesn't know what waterboarding is) to investigate the destruction of the tapes.

Sen. Rockfeller and Sen. Hagel have said that the Senate and Congress should do the investigation.

BTW the 9-11 Commission knew of the existence of the tapes and subpeonaed them/ requested them and didn't get them....

Cool! The documentary maker for NerdCore Rising just posted on the front page. Check out the YouTube and trailer.

Ralpheh
Justice Department investigating anything legal is a joke nowdays, given Bush has had Ashcroft, Gonzales and Mukasey. Did 9/11 Commission know or just suspect the tapes existed?

Justice really IS blind.

If Justice Existed...

Monkey
Try this (taken November 5, 2004).

Kerry to Hold Debrief for Reporters on Bali Climate Negotiations
Joined by Leading Policy Expert to Explain Impact of Talks

WASHINGTON D.C. – Senator John Kerry (D-Mass.), the only member of Congress to attend the Bali Climate negotiations, and Kit Batten, Director of Environmental Policy at the Center for American Progress, will hold a press teleconference with reporters tomorrow at 12:00 noon EST on the outcome of the talks and next steps for Congress.

Will go check his blog.

Oprah Is to Iraq as Cronkite Was to Vietnam

If Oprah can feel it and think it and say it, then you can feel it and think it and say it. What's not in question is the message to Democratic politicians, especially incumbents, still weaseling on Iraq: If you've lost Oprah, you've lost Middle America.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-kaplan/oprah-is-to-iraq-as-cronk_b_75968.html

"IS HE THE ONE" THE AUDACITY OF HOPE BARAK OBAMA

VIDEO http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/oprahpalooza-in-south-carolina/index.html?ex=1354856400&en=38b7d17d390e035a&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Oprah Winfrey speaks for Barack Obama in South Carolina

Oprah Winfrey Speaks for Barack Obama in Iowa - Part 1 of 2

Re: Oprah Winfrey Speaks for Barack Obama in Iowa - Part 2 of 2

Halliburton Rape
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=3977702&page=1
DynCorp used to get by with this in Kosovo. Contractors are under nobody's jurisdiction. The State Department did nothing. This woman could have been killed had not someone loaned her a cell phone.

Sorry, but I can't do the pig farmer. I did keep up when it first broke, but I have developed an aversion to trying to figuring out serial killers.

Since I was 9, murder, murder, all the time. I just can't take it anymore.

It is a cold miserable world with too much suffering.

Did yall see the Pope talking about how materialisim is 'sad'...?

What an interesting statement from a man who stands at golden alters with diamond encrusted fingers and 3000 dollar Prada shoes.

Hey Monkey.... Just to make your head explode.

Huckabee wants to ‘take this nation back for Christ.’ In 1998, then-Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee spoke at the National Pastors’ Conference, explaining why he entered into politics:

"I didn’t get into politics because I thought government had a better answer. I got into politics because I knew government didn’t have the real answers, that the real answers lie in accepting Jesus Christ into our lives. […]

I hope we answer the alarm clock and take this nation back for Christ."

http://thinkprogress.org/

Anger means you are healthy Monkey, so do feel free to embrace it.

Vatican Wealth "Truly Astonishing" As Simple Beggar Asking For Help Reveals World Problems
According to researchers, Catholic Church infiltrated by Illuminists disguised as Jesuits with world domination as their goal and deception and war their main tools.
16 Mar 2006

By Greg Szymanski

The Italian priest saying Mass in what looked like a gold plated church near the Spanish Steps in Rome was about to give his sermon when in stormed a street beggar screaming at the top of his lungs.

"Give me the money and give it to the starving people like me. All criminals at the altar, especially you Father with all those golden rings and chalices!" cried the street person in Italian, as several church ushers rushed to remove him from the premises.

While being pushed out of the Church like a piece of garbage, he made one last plea to those attending Holy Sunday Mass. "Don’t give him the money, please don’t give it him! I need to eat. So do many others. All they do here is steal your money while many die in the streets.!"

more...
http://www.arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/articles/article/1518131/45587.htm

Christy

That's a dangerous combination of theocracy (it's all about the mean, judgmental Christian God) and neoliberalism (government doesn't have any answers).

Unfortunately his candidacy looks very good - and if the Dems come up with a lackluster candidate, he WILL prevail.

As if 8 years of W's theocratic neoliberalism were NOT enough.

huck·ster (hkstr)
n.
1. One who sells wares or provisions in the street; a peddler or hawker.
2. One who uses aggressive, showy, and sometimes devious methods to promote or sell a product.
3. Informal One who writes advertising copy, especially for radio or television.

I am going to refer to Huckabee from now on as "The Huckster".

Innnnnnnnnnn this corner, the current heavywieght chump of the world, weighing in at a bloated 300 million lazy, misinformed citizens, the big, bad, bullying, racist Christian theocracy ...

Annnnnnnd in this corner, weighing in with millions of servants willing to die for a God they believe is being disrespected by the current chumps....

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLettttts Get Ready to Rummmmmmmblllllllle!

I diubt Huckabee will prevail, even if we put up Charles Manson as a candidate.

I don't know what yall are hearing, but the republicans I know are all the sudden real creeped out by Huckabee.

Nothing says 'UnAmerican' like an open theocrat.

I think it is funny watching them suddenly realize 'Oh Crap! Isn't that Irans problem...?"

HAHAHA!

BRING IT ON HUCKY! May the power of Christ COMPELL YOU!

Huckabee refuses to retract '92 remarks on AIDS patients

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Republican presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee refused to retract a statement he made in 1992 calling for the isolation of AIDS patients.

"I had simply made the point -- and I still believe this today -- that in the late '80s and early '90s, when we didn't know as much as we do now about AIDS, we were acting more out of political correctness than we were about the normal public health protocols that we would have acted," Huckabee told Fox News on Sunday.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention concluded in 1985 that AIDS was not transmitted by casual contact. But Huckabee said at the time, "there were other concerns being voiced by public health officials."

He disputed the characterization that he was calling for individuals infected with HIV to be quarantined.

"Now, would I say things a little differently in 2007? Probably so," Huckabee told Fox News. "But I'm not going to recant or retract from the statement that I did make because, again, the point was not saying we ought to lock people up who have HIV/AIDS."

Huckabee did not explain how individuals with HIV would have been isolated.

During his Senate run, Huckabee also told the AP in the questionnaire that he found homosexuality to be "an aberrant, unnatural and sinful lifestyle."

Speaking Monday in Miami, Florida, Huckabee said he still stands by his earlier remarks on homosexuality.

"Let's understand what sin means," Huckabee said. "Sin means missing the mark. Missing the mark could mean missing the mark in any area. We've all missed the mark."

The former Baptist minister said the "proper relationship" is one between a married man and woman having children.

"If we didn't have that as the ideal, we wouldn't have a civilization that was able to perpetuate," he said. "So, rather than read into something incredibly out of line, just read into the fact that I believe that the ideal relationship is one-man, one-woman, pro-life."

more...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/10/huckabee.aids/index.html

As far as this goes... "Don’t give him the money, please don’t give it him! I need to eat. So do many others. All they do here is steal your money while many die in the streets.!"

I wish I had the words to say what I feel.

I wish I could say it outright and to their faces.

How dare they. May God forgive what is done in His name.

I don't know how creeped out Repubs are with The Huckster, Christy ...

He is leading currently in Iowa and South Carolina, and I know my ardent Bush loving right wingnut FOX smooching evangelical in-laws are just in a state of rapture over him.

Huckleberry Hound

White House lawyers have advised Bush's spokeswoman not to answer questions about why the CIA destroyed recordings of terror suspects under interrogation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22181500/

He is leading, because virtually no one knows what his positions are. Ghoullianni and McCains spectacular failure, and Thomsons, all kinda sucked all the light away from him.

But now that he is a 'front runner'...

HAHA! Oh what fun this will be to watch.

I have a question for hucky... "How is it so many Christians, who claim to love Jesus and be 'prolife', always somehow wind up supporting WAR and the DEATH PENALTY....?"

Say huh Hucky?

HAHAHA!

I am reposting this, because honestly I think democrats have no freaking clue how to fight against the biblethumping-war mongering crowd. I think we should ABSOLUTELY invite the argument.

Ok, Then. Let's Talk About God.

Dear Republicans,

You seem most eager to bring God into our political discourse, so let's totally go there. But, fair warning, we will also be speaking of the Devil. And Hell. I must assume if you believe in God, you must also then believe in hell.

How dare I, a liberal hawk (sometimes democrat), speak to your beliefs? Well that is simple, for 1. I also believe in God, and for 2, I was in the past one of you who justified my political beliefs with my interpretation of God. And just like you, somehow I even used it to justify supporting the death penalty.

But, God is no longer twisted just to support the death penalty, is He? Somehow the overwhelming support for our current wars, is ultimately justified among our Christian population using God and morality as the ironic excuse to kill and torture people. Somehow Saddam was 'evil' therefore, killing him, and violently overthrowing and occupying his country can be justified because it was the 'right' thing to do. 'Right' by whom? Right by GOD, ofcourse. That is what you mean by 'right'...right? Right.

Except, no Iraqi sees it that way and niether does 99% of the rest of the world. Instead, they see just the opposite. You can say it is because they just 'hate God', but no, they just hate evil people that start wars for lies that gets over a million people killed while expecting everyone else to clean up the mess.

Did she dare say we are evil? What am I suppossed to call people that invade countries that have never threatened them and violently overthrow and occupy people who have never done anything to any of US...? Don't worry, I fully count myself among the evil bastards that did do that very thing. FOR NOTHING we did this, except that God was on our side and it was 'the right thing' to do'. Led by The Son oF Providence, himself, George W. Bush. But, we all know it was his lies that started it, so what if he was lying about Providence too?

What if he is actually the son of the devil instead...? Would the spawn of Satan have acted any differently at all than George Bush has? If the Devil actually wanted to start Armegeddon, he would use a foolish tool EXACTLY like George Bush to do so. And he would have been spouting lies and the the word Providence. With fake preachers bought off with faith based welfare there to vouch for him all along the way.

When ever once has George Bush followed the teachings of Jesus Christ? Not one single time I can remember seeing. Just because the man sits in church does not make him a holy man. It does not even make him a GOOD man. Any fool can sit on a pew without falling off.

I keep wondering why we just can not as a nation confront all this corruption and wars for lies and bring back the moral center that is suppossed to guide us. It has slowly dawned on me that all of these things are not happening because we can not confront and deal with our problems. It is happening because of our own individual inability to look into the mirror and confront the evil that glares back.

Ask yourselves, why is it Bush has never truly been confronted with anything at all he has done or caused ? No real dissent is allowed at all, even from other republicans. He is not exactly a big scary man. They do not avoid confronting him because he is smarter than they. It is because NO ONE wants to see the evil that lies behind his rightous facade. No one here wants to admit that kind of evil has infected us all. If we know we will see evil in the mirror, why look in the mirror?

What happens to evil bastards like me, and you, who violently overthrew and occupied people for lies? People who continue to justify and hide those lies and then use GOD as thier ultimate excuse to trump any suggestion of accountability, what will become of those people once God gets them?

Oh, and God will get them, He will get us alllll. But what do you think will happen to those people that dare stand before Him and say they supported it all, in His name? Because it was the right thing to do by Him. Do you think God will be amused?

As I said, if you believe in God, you most certainly believe in hell, too. Except you republicans always seem to leave that part out when trying to justify political beliefs that require people die. All God, no mention of hell. As someone raised with southern baptists I find that quite extraordinary. It has to be deliberate, so no one will remember there are consequences if God really wasn't on your side after all.

How exactly will you use God to justify attacking Iran? When we bomb their people, will we be told because it is the 'right thing' to do? That is right, we are already being told exactly that. That we must bomb them, because it is the right thing to do. And if it isn't what God would want us to do?

As a Christian myself, I will no longer let any of us pretend bombing people is the 'christian' thing to do. Because it so obviously is not. We could say 'The Devil made us do it!', but only if the Devil is now named George W. Bush. And he very well could be. They don't call him the Great Pretender for nothing.

Christy, my parcel just arrived, and they are absolutely wonderful, will not be able to hang them all in the room I was thinking about, will have to hang them in the much bigger room.

NEWS AMERICAS
Nuclear fallout
By Marwan Bishara, Al Jazeera's senior political analyst

"Dishonest", "misleading", "lying" and "spinning" are just some of the measured adjectives used in the mainstream US media to characterise George Bush, the president, and Stephen Hadley, his national security adviser, after they embraced the damning National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) summary report on Iran as proof of the effectiveness and success of the administration's Tehran policy.

The NIE judges "with high confidence that in the fall of 2003, Tehran halted its nuclear weapons programme", and that "Tehran's decision to halt its nuclear weapons programme suggests it is less determined to develop nuclear weapons than we have been judging since 2005".

It further said that "...Tehran's decisions are guided by a cost-benefit approach rather than a rush to a weapon irrespective of the political, economic and military costs". And that "this NIE does not assume that Iran intends to acquire nuclear weapons".

The White House seems to have known of much of this and more for some time, but chose to escalate the war rhetoric against Tehran.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/A1546F8B-682D-4138-A257-6741343DBCFF.htm

I am glad you like them Rossi. I love you.

Do you want to hear something creepy as hell? As soon as I hit submit on that article I wrote that I just posted about God, a spider bit me.

I know I killed it, but I can't find the body to see what kind it was.

Christy
I'll bet alot of Christians (and other sorts of people) would appreciate that letter you wrote.

CNN SLAPS DOWN JOHN MCCAIN ON THE SUPPOSED SUCCESS OF THE IRAQ/SURGE (OUCH...)

a product.
3. Informal One who writes advertising copy, especially for radio or television.

I am going to refer to Huckabee from now on as "The Huckster".

@@@@@@@@@@@@@

WE NEED A PREACHER MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!!! CUT OUT THE MIDDLE MAN....

I call him Gov. Huckleberry Mike, Adventures on the Mississippi and the Potomac

"Ole Man, ribber, dat Ole Man ribber, he jus' keeps rollin' a long..."

not my president Author Profile Page said:

Ralpheh
Justice Department investigating anything legal is a joke nowdays, given Bush has had Ashcroft, Gonzales and Mukasey. Did 9/11 Commission know or just suspect the tapes existed?
December 10, 2007 12:48 PM

@@@@@@@

From what I have read, the 9-11 Commission knew about the tapes and tried to get them; Moussaoui's lawyers knew and tried to get them introduced as evidence during the trial; and former Rep. Jane Harmon says she knew about them and told the CIA and the Bushies not to destroy them....

Christy

Sorry to break the news, but the death penalty is COMPLETELY Biblical/Koranic. There are plenty of pro-death penalty verses in both books - though since I don't have one handy, I can't tell you right now which specific ones.

Ralpheh

Jane Harman is still a Rep... and she represents a hawkish Democratic district in West Los Angeles.

CodePink headquarters also happens to be in her district, though, if I remember correctly.

Christy

Nothing says 'UnAmerican' like an open theocrat.

Over here, nothing says "old-fashioned American moralist" like an open theocrat.

I'm fed up with the Republicans' theocratic neoliberal immigration quotas.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/07/politics/main3591448.shtml

How could someone even say this with a straight face:

"The President, exercising his constitutional authority under Article II,
can determine whether an action is a lawful exercise of the President's
authority under Article II."

Ally, Christy

Thou shalt not kill.

Suppose that were followed and priests and demogogues quit adding amendments?!

NMP

"The President, exercising his constitutional authority under Article II, can determine whether an action is a lawful exercise of the President's authority under Article II."

If such self-interpretation of powers doesn't say dictatorship, I don't know what does.

This is pretty much the same stuff that caused Hugo Chavez to lose his latest referendum in Venezuela.

Ralpeh
Thanks for the McCain Smackdown- the made my day!

nmp said

not my president said:
Thou shalt not kill.
Suppose that were followed and priests and demogogues quit adding amendments?!

thanks nmp - the bible - old and new testaments - are the words of God - interpreted by the mortal men of the time - all of whom had their own agendas.

Thou shalt not kill. Sounds pretty simple to me. It certainly is the precursor to peace.

more crapp:

Gang Rape Cover-Up by US, Halliburton/KBR
By Brian Ross, Maddy Sauer and Justin Rood
ABC News

Monday 10 December 2007

KBR told victim she could lose her job if she sought help after being raped, she says.
A Houston, Texas woman says she was gang-raped by Halliburton/KBR coworkers in Baghdad, and the company and the U.S. government are covering up the incident.

Jamie Leigh Jones, now 22, says that after she was raped by multiple men at a KBR camp in the Green Zone, the company put her under guard in a shipping container with a bed and warned her that if she left Iraq for medical treatment, she'd be out of a job.

"Don't plan on working back in Iraq. There won't be a position here, and there won't be a position in Houston," Jones says she was told.

In a lawsuit filed in federal court against Halliburton and its then-subsidiary KBR, Jones says she was held in the shipping container for at least 24 hours without food or water by KBR, which posted armed security guards outside her door, who would not let her leave.

"It felt like prison," says Jones, who told her story to ABC News as part of an upcoming "20/20" investigation. "I was upset; I was curled up in a ball on the bed; I just could not believe what had happened."

Finally, Jones says, she convinced a sympathetic guard to loan her a cell phone so she could call her father in Texas.

"I said, 'Dad, I've been raped. I don't know what to do. I'm in this container, and I'm not able to leave,'" she said. Her father called their congressman, Rep. Ted Poe, R-Texas.

Ralpheh

Jane Harman is still a Rep... and she represents a hawkish Democratic district in West Los Angeles.

@@@@@@@

I misheard NPR then. Maybe they said, "former member of the House Intelligence Committee..."

Ralpeh
Thanks for the McCain Smackdown- the made my day!

@@@@@

It would appear that McCain is

lying,

toast,

and history... politically speaking

Our Justice Systems are not that different against women or children, are they?

Victim: Gang-Rape Cover-Up by U.S., Halliburton/KBR
KBR Told Victim She Could Lose Her Job If She Sought Help After Being Raped, She Says
In a statement, KBR said it was "instructed to cease" its own investigation by U.S. government authorities "because they were assuming sole responsibility for the criminal investigations."
"The safety and security of all employees remains KBR's top priority," it said in a statement. "Our commitment in this regard is unwavering."
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=3977702&page=1

Rape case ruling shocks Australia

A judge's decision not to jail nine men guilty of raping a 10-year-old girl in an Aboriginal community has triggered outrage in Australia.
The offenders were either placed on probation or given suspended sentences for the 2005 rape in the Aurukun settlement, in northern Queensland.
In her ruling, Judge Sarah Bradley told them that the victim "probably agreed to have sex with all of you".
A review of sexual abuse sentences in Aboriginal Queensland has been ordered.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7136269.stm

When was that CNN smackdown of Lockjaw McCain from, is that current? I'm thinking it's from several months ago, unless all the anesthesia I was under last month made me have a severe case of deja vu, cuz I woulda sworn I saw that same thing before!

McCain Again, Naturally

Huckabee ads drop ‘Christian leader’

From NBC/NJ’s Adam Aigner-Treworgy

Huckabee will begin airing two new ads tomorrow. "A New America" will air in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, while "Secure Borders" will air only in Iowa. His three-state ad seems almost like a reintroduction to voters in the early primary states, now that Huckabee has a little more money and the spotlight shining on him due to recent polls.

The ad touts Huckabee's positive vision for America's future and his desire to leave the next generation "an America that's even greater than our grandparents gave us." The ad shows the candidate sitting on a couch and talking into a camera interspersed with images of Huckabee as a child. There are also the ubiquitous images of Americana, like a smiling mother and her son sitting on a stoop, a mother pushing her daughter in a swing and a factory worker being lifted up in a cherry-picker. Words displayed over the pictures trumpet Huckabee's accomplishments as governor, such as being labeled one of the best governors in America by Time Magazine.

But both ads also does something else -- they drop “Christian Leader” from the titles on the screen. “Proven Leader” is, instead, substituted.

more...
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/10/508378.aspx

Halliburton rape filing, courtesy Nyc
http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/texas/txedce/1:2007cv00295/103217/1/0.pdf

Five Guard Brigades Alerted for Deployment

Michelle Tan, Army Times, writes: "Five Army National Guard brigades have been alerted for deployment in the summer of 2009 to support Operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom, the Defense Department announced Monday."
The brigades alerted for duty in Iraq are:
32nd Brigade Combat Team, Wisconsin National Guard
41st BCT, Oregon National Guard
155th BCT, Mississippi National Guard
The brigades alerted for duty in Afghanistan are:
48th Infantry Brigade Combat Team, Georgia National Guard
53rd IBCT, Florida National Guard
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/12/army_guard_deployments_071203w/

Brit PM to Troops: 'Your Iraq War Is Over'
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article563496.ece

Britain's Iraq War Is Ending. Who Won?

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL08668175

I AM WRONG ABOUT THE CIA TAPES:

1) Moussaoui's lawyers did NOT know about the tapes but had requested all transcripts of interrogations of Al Qaeda suspects.

2) The 9-11 Commission did NOT know about the tapes but asked for information - classified information - from the CIA about Al Qaeda suspects and -9-11 suspects.

BTW - so far I have DCIA Hayden lying on two counts:

1) why the tapes were destroyed (supposedly to protect CIA agents' identities (this could have easily been done with camera angles, agents wearing masks, blacking out faces etc..etc..etc..)

2) Hayden says that Congressmembers were told about the destruction of the tapes. NPR has repeatedly reported that C-members deny this completely - some say they weren't even aware of the existence of the tapes, let alone their destruction...

Open thread

next thread >>>

(ha ha ha)

monkey said:

When was that CNN smackdown of Lockjaw McCain from, is that current? I'm thinking it's from several months ago, unless all the anesthesia I was under last month made me have a severe case of deja vu, cuz I woulda sworn I saw that same thing before!

@@@@@@

Only Partial Smackdown,

This was Previous McCain, several months ago, before the full surge, proclaiming success before anything had really happened.

It does, however, catch McCain lying...

My mistake: this video was just added on You Tube today but it is taken from a clip that was several months old. And it doesn't mention the original airing date in the information box...

sorry folks...

State Department Retains Manager of Troubled Embassy Project

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/120707N.shtml

Warren P. Strobel reports for McClatchy Newspapers, "A State Department project manager banished from Iraq by the US ambassador and under scrutiny by the Justice Department continues to oversee the construction of the much-delayed new American embassy in Baghdad from nearby Kuwait, State Department officials disclosed Thursday."

I wish McCain would go away.

Has anyone tried to link up to Michells link
www.SupportBenazir.org
I am not able to get through has anyone tried yet?