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Open Thread but Caucuses Included
Since some apparently cannot post on the main page and the other Open Thread is getting rather full, feel free to address the information Richard provided on caucuses and proportional representation here, or just continue discussing whatever! It's the OPEN Thread! And happy birthday Matthew (last week), Toni (monkey's daughter), Shelby (Christy's daughter) and let's get some DEMOCRACY back in this country!
Here is a reprint of Richard's piece, so you don't have to go back and forth:
There's been some back-and-forth over on the Open Thread about some of the peculiarities of the caucuses. As a Kerry staffer, I got a complete top--to-bottom course in all things Iowa, short only of spending time on the ground there. But many of the staff I worked with ended up going there for the last month or two, and those of you who were on the Kerry blog at the time will never forget the wonderfully insightful and always reassuring blog posts from "Mark from Iowa."
I came to understand what a totally unique phenomenon the whole Iowa election process is. And I never stopped being impressed with how seriously the people of Iowa took their civic responsibilities as the first people to pass judgment on the candidates. For my part, I am less concerned about the quantity of people who show up for the causes than I am about the quality of the commitment.
Yes, it's hard to get people to come out on a cold Iowa night. But the decision that people are being asked to make is not a trivial one, and I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing that you need to be highly motivated to come out and participate in an hours-long process. I want people in those rooms who have taken the time to get out and see the candidates, and who have spent some time talking with their friends about the strengths and weaknesses of the field. Once past Iowa and New Hampshire (which shares some of the same virtues of retail politics), most voters' exposure to candidates will be through the woeful filters of the mass media, and commercials. Iowa and NH are the two places where the mass media's conventional wisdom does not severely crowd out critical thinking.
For example, in the fall of 2004, Howard Dean was the hot ticket, and John Kerry was polling in single digits in national polls. But Mark and Kerry staff kept telling us that the Kerry operation on the ground in Iowa was in fine shape. And I noticed something peculiar in the Iowa polls. Dean got up to 30 or just a little more, and then stopped. While his national numbers were strong, the polls suggested that despite all his trips there, and the national boom, that he wasn't closing the sale with any new voters, that he was hitting some kind of ceiling.
And as we learned soon enough, polls in Iowa in October/ November didn't predict very much what actually happened in January--the national media treats the public like idiots in this respect, writing story after story all spring, summer, and fall on horse race numbers that don't mean anything. Without Iowa, there is no place else in the nominating process that is as open to underfunded candidates who would never be heard if they had to compete in a money-dominated primary. Look at what's happening on the Republican side, with Romney having spent millions in Iowa, only to see Huckabee surging past him. (And for those of you who think Huckabee is cute or charming or whatever, the guy is a religious nutcase in a pleasant-sounding container. See Mike Taibbi's excellent piece on Huckabee in Rolling Stone.
As to the operation of the caucuses themselves, some people are troubled by the 15% rule, which requires a candidate to get 15% of the supporters at a given caucus, with candidates below the cut forced to drop out. Supporters of weak candidates can then choose to go home, or they can walk over and join up with any of the candidates who made the cut. This system forces candidates to appeal not just to their hard core supporters, but to reach out to supporters of other candidates to be their 2nd choice. Unlike the "first to the post," winner-take-all model that we use in most elections, Iowa voters get a chance to register at least their 2nd choice.
I lived in Cambridge, MA in the early 80s, and the city used a proportional representation system like this one to pick city council candidates, with an 10% ceiling rule. You numbered your choices for city council in priority order, and if you picked someone with less than 10%, then your vote went to your 2nd choice. It was theoretically possible to vote for all 20 or 30 candidates, and have your vote end up going to the person you picked far down the list, if all your earlier choices were for candidates who got counted out. This arrangement made for very interesting politics and coalition building among candidates.
I'm not arguing that Iowa is perfect, by any means. But given a choice between a media-commercial driven, first-past-the-post, secret ballot vote, and Iowa's retail, proportional representation, stand-up-in-public caucuses, I'll take the caucuses any day as the best way we have to kick off the campaign.
Exploitation in Iraq: A Special Report
Third world warriors fight U.S. wars - for dollars a day
Honduran soldier was among thousands who stood guard over Baghdad embassy, but couldn't legally enter United States.
Matthew D. LaPlante, The Salt Lake Tribune
For one year, Mario Urquia guarded the U.S. embassy in Baghdad, protecting American service members and diplomats in one of the most dangerous places in the world. Now Urquia is living on the edge of homelessness in Ogden - illegal in the nation he once stood to protect. While the circumstances that led to Urquia's illegal entry into the United States are unusual, the factors that resulted in his deployment to Iraq are not. He is just one of thousands of individuals from impoverished nations recruited to help fight a war for the richest country in the world. Human rights advocates say it's exploitation. United Nations officials say it's a violation of international law. But the U.S. government says that, at a time when its military is stretched so thin, third-world security contractors will be standing guard over U.S. facilities for a long time to come....
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_7614726
What date are Iowa and New Hampshire, I will be watching again, as I did when JK got the nomination in 2003.
Anyone got a date on all primaries.
Just for the Dems, couldn't stomach watching the republicans primaries.
Regarding Iowa and the primaries in general:
Karen said:
Ralpheh,
The caucus model is actually FAR more democratic than a winner-takes-all model, because it gives each participant a platform to make the arguments for their candidates and to persuade others. It makes for a far more informed electorate and that is a GOOD thing.
@@@@@@
I think an actual primary would be better - with all day voting, and absentee voting. And do away with the 15% rule. This would give dark horses and under0funded campaigns at least a shot.
I would also like to see the party convention in the summer mean more. With delegates and candidates more active in the decision making
instead of the typical (boring) coronation of the candidate... Perhaps the convention should select the Vice President, etc.. or the second place finisher be Vice President..
WHATEVER.... - THE PRESENT SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING. Voter participation is low; cynicism is high...
Here is an interesting video from Why Tuesday?; which asks why do we vote on a Tuesday in November? and shouldn't we make it easier and less hectic for people to vote?
Ralpheh,
From what I saw in Iowa in 2004 (I was reading the blog, asking questions, and calling voters, I was not there in person), the caucuses are a lively and HIGHLY participatory process.
The Monday night is so that people can come out and the caucuses are huge community events. When I was calling Iowans, I spoke with mostly elderly folks (it was usually during the day) and they do indeed take the process seriously.
I think you need to talk with some Iowans. I know I was inspired by the process. I also went to NH and worked the phones and the streets there (in January!). It was a great democratic process there as well, but people had a harder time believing their votes made a difference.
In Iowa, people were empowered. They knew they needed to be informed in order to speak with their neighbors and to convince them about their candidate. In NH, they knew they were voting as a part of a large one-moment snapshot but that there would be little discussion with the neighbors about who they supported.
And believe me, I disagreed with a lot of what Iowans said to me in our phone conversations! Many were homophobic and more than one told me s/he hated Hillary Clinton. They really didn't get Howard Dean at all. They liked Gephardt. etc.
It really is democracy in all its messiness. I won't work for that process this time; I want to be able to comment objectively on what I observe. But I HIGHLY recommend that as many participate as can. Convincing others about an issue or a candidate requires great discipline and the ability to listen well. You have to know your stuff too.
Jut making phone calls is a great start. Pick a candidate and get a list from that campaign.
Do we really have to keep talking about Iowa...?
It all sounds like this after a while.
Blah Blah Hillary. Blah Blah Blah Hillary Hillary and Obama. Blah Blah Blah blah, Hillary Obama, Edwards, But mostly Hillary. Blah Blah blah.
Blah Blah blah, Biden and Richardson. Blah Blah Blittitty blah blah.
Hillary Blah.
Blah Blah blah blah Blah Kicinich. Blah Blah UFOs. Blah Blah Blah. Hillary.
Blah Iraq. Blah Bill, Blah Iowa.
Bleep Bleep Bleep Blah Blah Blah Blah.
Blah Blah.
Warning: This video may offend some viewers. It arrived in my email last night and it's so good to laugh.
woz,
Yes we needed that!
Hey DCPers, I was just interviewed ABOUT the DCP (and other activities) for a basically right-wing radio station (although the woman who hosts the show is a gun-totin' Libertarian-lefty). It will be aired Sunday night I think, but I will also get copy of it.
I talked about the ways that a blog can help develop voices for dissent and truth. I was so happy to be able to share some of your stories and to highlight this site.
Once it airs, we will have to be aware that new lurkers may come by. So hopefully, the conversations will continue in the direction of even greater empowerment!
"Once it airs, we will have to be aware that new lurkers may come by. So hopefully, the conversations will continue in the direction of even greater empowerment!"
Don't tell Monkey that. He may have to become an optimist again, and I don't think MY heart could take it.
I can fake it with the best 'em... 'specially for you, Miss C!
Stand back peeps... I'm puttin on my Lurk Smirk!
Happy Daze Are Here Again
Doubt raised over Bush's account of Iran report
Sen. Joe Biden on Tuesday was incredulous over President Bush's account of when he knew about a recent intelligence estimate that downplays the nuclear threat from Iran. "Are you telling me a president that's briefed every single morning, who's fixated on Iran, is not told back in August ...?" Biden said.
-snip-
Bush told reporters that he was told of "new information" about Iran in August during a briefing by Adm. Mike McConnell, the director of national intelligence.
"He didn't tell me what the information was. He did tell me it was going to take a while to analyze," the president said. He said he wasn't briefed about the new information until the new intelligence report was prepared last week.
The Democratic presidential candidates were incredulous that Bush did not know about the assessment's new finding.
Biden, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, called that explanation "unbelievable."
"Are you telling me a president that's briefed every single morning, who's fixated on Iran, is not told back in August that the tentative conclusion of 16 intelligence agencies in the U.S. government said they had abandoned their effort for a nuclear weapon in '03?" Biden asked in a conference call with reporters.
"I refuse to believe that," he added. "If that's true, he has the most incompetent staff in modern American history, and he's one of the most incompetent presidents in modern American history."
more...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/04/bush.iran/index.html
Was Bush Behind the Iran Report?
Tuesday, Dec. 04, 2007
By ROBERT BAER
Bombing Iran, it seems, is now off the table. There's no other reasonable take on the latest National Intelligence Estimate that concludes Iran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003.
But there is also no doubt that the Bush White House was behind this NIE. While the 16 intelligence agencies that make up the "intelligence community" contribute to each National Intelligence Estimate, you can bet that an explosive, 180-degree turn on Iran like this one was greenlighted by the President.
And explode is what the hawks in and outside the Administration are about to do. They were counting on Bush being the one President prepared to take on Iran. As recently as last month, Bush warned of World War III if Iran so much as thought about building a bomb. Bush's betrayal is not going to go down well. The neocons, clinging to a sliver of hope, will accuse the intelligence community of incompetence, pointing out that as late as 2005 it estimated "with high confidence" that Iran was building a bomb.
Bush's National Security Adviser, Stephen Hadley, put the best face on the new report, claiming that it was our diplomacy and saber rattling that forced the Iranians to back down. As for the intelligence community, it explained its reversal by hinting that new intelligence had surfaced.
Neither explanation is entirely accurate. The real story behind this NIE is that the Bush Administration has finally concluded Iran is a bridge too far.
more...
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1690696,00.html
NBC 'Nightly News' video:
If Iran stopped developing weapons four years ago, why did it take so long for President Bush and his advisors to get the story right?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
Check your mail Monkey.
Whew! I thought you wanted me to check a male monkey!
Homoerectus!
Response en route to ya, Christy.
Bush to visit Mideast in January, officials say
Trip to help push Israeli-Palestinian peace talks, according to White House
WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush will visit the Mideast in early January as he presses the Israelis and Palestinians to resume long-stalled peace talks and forge an elusive agreement for an independent Palestinian homeland.
The White House would not disclose details of Bush’s itinerary, but an Israeli television station said he will go to Israel for the first time in his presidency.
“The president believes now is an appropriate time to visit the region,” said White House press secretary Dana Perino.
-snip-
Israel said Tuesday it is seeking bids to build more than 300 new homes in a disputed east Jerusalem neighborhood, drawing Palestinian condemnations that the move is undermining the newly revived peace talks.
Palestinian officials appealed to the U.S. to block the project, but Israel says a pledge to halt settlement activity does not apply anywhere in the holy city.
Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat sent an urgent message to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, asking her to block the project from moving forward. “This is undermining Annapolis,” he said.
more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22104079/
All I remember from 2004 primaries, was that there was no "campaign", no discussion of the issues in the campaign after Iowa and New Hampshire; Kerry was not really tested etc.. Kerry won Iowa and New Hampshire - And the whole campaign was over: the media crucified Dean; Gephardt threw in the towel immediately; Kerry was anointed (as they have been trying to do with Hillary and Giuliani, this year without a lot of success) etc..
Two small, unrepresentative states - Iowa and New Hampshire basically determined who the next president is going to be. I don't think this is good or healthy or fair, quite frankly.
I would love to know how small the percentage of Iowa's registered voters bothered to
participate in the caucus in 2004. If it was 10% to 20%, it was not really very democratic..
BTW. in 2004, I was focused on the Michigan's caucus/primary on February 7. We were calling voters and going door to door (which was kind of stupid in retrospect). The people I had spoken to knew almost nothing about the candidates' stand on the issues (none of the candidates had spent much time in Michigan - focusing mostly on Iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina - and voters were not really focused, and neither to a certain extent was the media).
After Iowa, union folks in Michigan were like lost sheep; the unions had endorsed Gephardt a month before our primary and had been working for him. But Gephardt had dropped out not long after the unions' announced endorsement of him.
Ron Paul mob ambushes Giuliani campaign event - Giuliani retreats with tail between legs:
An interesting Ad from Democratic Courage:
I heard some of the NPR audio debates and NPR audio is something I'm familiar with since it's about all I listen to. I know all the commentators very well. I thought Biden and Dodd were good.
But given a choice between a media-commercial driven, first-past-the-post, secret ballot vote, and Iowa's retail, proportional representation, stand-up-in-public caucuses, I'll take the caucuses any day as the best way we have to kick off the campaign.
@@@@
Yes, and I am sorry that I have to ask the painfully obvious question about the 2004 election: So Kerry closed the deal in Iowa in the caucus. He had convinced the average(?) Iowa voter(?) that he was the man. And then Kerry wasn't able to beat Bush in Iowa in the general election????
Makes you wonder...
Are Iowa voters fickle??? Have poor memories?
Iowa is a notoriously conservative state and the caucuses are always party-specific, so winning the caucus never guarantees the state. That said, once the truth about the 2004 election crap comes out, I would not be surprised if it was possible JK did win Iowa. Or would have.
I have no doubt that it was a close election and it was always going to be a close election. The Republicans had laid out a game plan that was bound to be effective at some level--working with the evangelical ministers and the big corporations as they did.
As Richard often says, he did not ever think JK would win; he thought he MIGHT win. But that had far less to do with JK or even the campaign than it did with the average American voter, who was already convinced the devil was brown, gay, and Muslim and that George Bush was going to save them from him.
It why we're here, Ralpheh. It would be a great thing to have an informed electorate; one that is not so easily fooled and mislead by the media, wouldn't it?
Ralpheh
I think you are talking about "electability" and it's something that voters always consider when they want to beat someone who is truly heinous. They suspect they will need help and "strange bedfellows" perhaps.
Remember that the media is not always right and you never know what is going to get thrown in the mix. Suppose there were another terror attack, for instance, and don't forget that we had a mega terror alert on SuperTuesday.
The Kerrys spent alot of time in Iowa. Dean shipped a bunch of guys in orange hats in and they got chased out by farmers with pitchforks. Don't you remember? I do agree that the "Dean scream" was used by the media because they were bored and Britney Spears wasn't much on the horizon yet.
So the Democrat primary system is good???
A candidate wins a caucus in Iowa (a strange and fickle state) and then wins in New Hampshire - and the race is all over? a campaign in only two states, really - with the rest of the country completely left out.
Somehow I don't like the idea of the fate of the presidency (and the country to a great extent) being in the hands of some voters in Iowa who manage to get to the caucus on a Monday night in the winter.
Ralpheh
I think it's a wierd system but there would have to be a tremendous psychological shift where the media and donors jumped on a bandwagon. I have been looking at alot of state polls and donor patterns to try to get a feel for the pulse of the country but am afraid it's not just Iowa that is strange and fickle, but the whole country.
I don't dislike Hillary as much as you do yet I will give you two hints. One of Kerry's guys in 2004 works for Obama and he's in the press alot today, and Robert Reich worked for Bill Clinton but wrote on his blog that he thought Hillary was really snotty lately. There is certainly ammo out there for you.
Personally, I am ready to just see how it all shakes out but I basically agree our system with the heavily-weighted primaries is very wierd. If they are going to do it that way, why don't they randomly pick the states out of a hat for order? Why don't they hold the election results til all states have voted during the general? Why don't they just scrap the electoral system as it was established when the people were considered too illiterate to decide?
By the way, when I was looking at donor patterns I was astounded at how many prominent and wealthy people gave big donations to Ron Paul. Even though he has a wierd program that I don't think alot of them have looked into, the fact that he is a Republican and speaks out against the war and Patriot Act makes him an anomaly and therefore pretty interesting.
Michael Douglas gave a big donation to Kucinich. I thought that was cool. The other CEOs and movie stars were pretty divided, mostly between Obama and Clinton. I found it interesting that so many priests supported Brownback before he bowed out, and that a bunch of lawyers donated to Giuliani. Maybe not surprising.
Rice berates Iran after key nuclear report
Secretary of State says she won't respond directly to Ahmadinejad remark
ADDIS ABABA, Ethiopia - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Wednesday berated Iran’s democracy after its president said a new U.S. intelligence review concluding his country has stopped developing nuclear weapons was a “declaration of victory.”
Rice would not directly respond to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s remark, but told reporters in the Ethiopian capital that the public release of the National Intelligence Estimate showed the Bush administration was committed to transparent democracy, while Iran was not.
“I am not going to comment on that comment except to say that what the National Intelligence Estimate shows, and the transparency with which the administration released it, is what it means to live in a democracy and I hope one day that the people of Iran will live in a democracy too,” she said.
-snip-
Rice said that the latest U.S. intelligence estimate did not mean that Washington no longer considered Tehran a threat and urged the international community not to back down at the U.N. Security Council on pressuring Iran to halt its activities that could produce the ingredients for an atomic weapon.
“It is the very strong view of the administration that the Iranian regime remains a problematic and dangerous regime and that the international community must continue to unite around the Security Council resolutions that have passed,” she said.
“Iran needs to stop enrichment and reprocessing activities because those enriching and reprocessing activities permit, if they are perfected, a state to acquire fissile material for a nuclear weapon,” Rice said.
In addition to her public comments, Rice is working the phones to defend the Bush administration’s strategy on Iran and to explain a new U.S. intelligence assessment that Tehran halted its nuclear weapons program in 2003, a startling turnabout that contradicted past U.S. conclusions.
Against easing pressure
Rice told reporters Tuesday on her way to Ethiopia to meet with African leaders that it would be a “big mistake” to ease any diplomatic pressure on Iran despite the new U.S. findings. “It doesn’t mean you should take the pressure off,” she said. “It puts a premium on diplomatic efforts. I continue to see Iran as a dangerous power in international politics. At this moment, it doesn’t appear to have an active weaponization program. That frankly is good news. But if it causes people to say, ’Oh, well, then we don’t need to worry about what the Iranians are doing,’ I think we will have made a big mistake.”
more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22110042/
Gates assessing security on surprise Iraq visit
Defense Secretary Robert Gates is using his unannounced trip to Iraq to assess whether the downturn in violence in parts of the country can be sustained, and whether Iran is working to quell the shipment of arms into Iraq, officials said. The Pentagon chief arrived today for his sixth visit to the country.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/12/05/gates.iraq.ap/index.html
Hey Monkey...
http://bp1.blogger.com/_nh_u4eKaU1k/R1ao4W5c5fI/AAAAAAAAAIk/pVKwSazlSxo/s1600-h/diannagoddessofthehunt.jpg
Holy cow! That picture is incredible... best wishes to all in Washington State and Oregon. That pic reminds me so much of New Orleans.
I wonder what God told Pat Robertson about what those awful treehugging people in the Northwest did to deserve this.... and if Rush Limbaugh and all the compassionate right wingers who worship at the Fox Box out there will want the area bulldozed and blame all the citizens for being so stupid as to live in an area that gets flooded like that.
Oops... sorry Christy, I went negative again, didn't I?
Oh Holy Cow, nmp!!!
Actually my bro (the trucker) is sitting in Portland with a load that was suppose to go to Seattle. He mentioned last night that I5 (a main highway in the N.W. was flooded all over the place.)
WOW! I do think it must be what MoNKey said. I'm sure Pat Robertson will find a way to blame those residents for this happening to them. (I wonder how long it will take for Bush to recind the Davis-Bacon (fair wage) Act.)
Besides, MOnkeY, you're suppose to be happy swinging from your tree--don't you know that?
You're suppose to be thinking nice thoughts like this:
Happy Hannukah to all who celebrate the Festival of Lights
Late to the party...but I want to wish Christy's Shelby a very happy 15th birthday. I wish you a lot more special times in the years ahead.
Oh..and by the way Tony, despite popular belief, it's really not that terrific to make mom get more grey hair! (Or to get her to pull her own hair out.)
(image via cartoon stock)
nmp,
I keep looking back at that photo. It's an amazing picture! But is that near your home or job? How are you or your neighbors getting around? Where are all of those people who have been displaced staying?
I know my brother said, "Millions of dollars in the trucking industry is being lost each day that I-5 is closed."
Monkey (and others) this may cheer you up some:
I don't dislike Hillary as much as you do yet I will give you two hints. One of Kerry's guys in 2004 works for Obama and he's in the press alot today, and Robert Reich worked for Bill Clinton but wrote on his blog that he thought Hillary was really snotty lately. There is certainly ammo out there for you.
@@@@@@@@@@
There is absolutely no lacking of ammunition on ole Hill - there is tons of it and the Repubs are stockpiling it as I type. What is lacking is money (which Hill has sucked up) and a clear alternative. Here is another video (NOT by me) summing up the Hillary problem/disaster:
it's called "HILLARY KNEW"
Ralpheh
I think you are talking about "electability" and it's something that voters always consider when they want to beat someone who is truly heinous. They suspect they will need help and "strange bedfellows" perhaps.
@@@@@@
NMP,
You might want to ask some of the Democratic Party brain trust why it is SO DIFFICULT to beat an unpopular, bumbliing, illiterate, phony, "heinous" president?? Shouldn't the 2004 and 2006 elections been slam dunks for the Democrats?? Shoudn't they have close to 60 votes in the Senate?? Will they have 60 votes in 2009??
Does the election all hinge on abortion, gays, and immigrants?? Or might some Democratic candidate mention the economy, Social security, medicare, low wages, declining schools, the budget deficit??? Not to mention two endless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan...
I thouroughly agree that Hillary as the nominee will be a trainwreck of Bush-like proportions.
Nothing good can come from it.
For what it's worth the Progressive Democrats of America straw poll Kucinich wins (no surprise), HIllary comes in 4th (no surprise - although I thought she might have done worse)
Kucinich, Dennis 6510 41 %
Edwards, John 4168 26 %
Obama, Barack 2063 13 %
Clinton, Hillary 1470 9 %
Richardson, Bill 768 5 %
Biden, Joe 537 3 %
Gravel, Mike 112 1 %
Dodd, Christopher 182 1 %
2004 a slam-dunk? Paleese. No matter who was going to be the Dem candidate, they were running against a corrupt media, a President who got free airtime to give important "press conferences" that were nothing more than campaign speeches, a war time President
And if you think it was a cake-walk for anyone to be the candidate in 04, then take a look at what the media did to Dean.
That in itself shows how the media was going to guarantee that Bush would win the election. (And then you add suppression and election fraud to the mix and you got the equivalent of Hell will freeze over before they were going to let a Democrat win in 04.
The problem is Ralph, is that it took NOLA, spying, pervert-gate, etc before the people had enough pain and were ready to give up on their so-called "Christian President."
And... that's not even adding to the mix all the places where Democrats didn't even have the infrastructure to GOTV.
Sparrow, I gotta tell ya, even with all that you mention and more, people STILL to this day can't equate all of those issues with who (or what party) has been primarily responsible for the cavalcade of crap that has brought to this country such pain and disrespect.
As seems to be the pattern anymore, the masses won't get it until it's way too late...
Tardiness is next to Godliness
Monkey--it's brainwashing.
I was at the gym working out, and they have CNN, Fox, or MSNBC on all the time. On the other 2 tv's they have ESPN and on the last tv they have soap operas on.
And I can tell you from my days at the airport that they have Fox on or CNN everywhere you go. Now if CNN were 'liberal' as they claim, it wouldn't be such a big deal because then people could pick between FOX or CNN. But since we know they're both the same side of the coin, it's really just more brainwashing.
Thank God they at least got rid of those false-news-networks at the banks and grocery stores.
monkey
Bank of America still runs CNN. I don't have accounts there, but my family business does, so I continue to visit many branches.
Of course, you know B of A refuses to advertise on Air America, and is a major Repuke donor.
Ralpheh
If anyone had a slam dunk in 2004, it was W. At least where I live - a so-called blue state. Latinos especially voted for W and the Republicans in droves, and that's why when they complain about the Republican assault on immigrants, I don't sympathize at all.
My advice to you is to rethink all the assumptions and givens you believe in about various states and demographics.
monkey
At least Fox is consistently conservative. CNN is a flip-flopper, so it's even less trustworthy.
monkey
re: airports and Fox/CNN
Airports are inherently conservative places, thanks to the politics of the airline executives and pilots (and all the security precautions). Also, most road warriors are white men - a reliable Republican bloc.
In fact, airline pilots are probably the only unionized group that consistently trend Republican. I don't think they deserve their six-figure pay (or even union representation). Flight attendants are paid a pittance, and their unions are pathetic at best... so unfair.
Hey, I'm with ya on the whole TV thing, I'm way more enlightened since I turned off the crapbox the night of the 2000 election.
Amazing that critical thinking is a thing of the past, eh?
Maybe it is brainwashing, cuz I can't figure out for the life of me how it's not painfully obvious how f*cked up things have gotten since Ricky Retardo and his band of slime took the reigns?
I think if the Dems had put an abrupt stop to the madness in 2006, they'd be having an easier time of it now going into '08, but they have managed to get themselves lumped in now as now better, no different than the psychotics who have buried us up to our necks.
That's why the Republicans hate public education. Not only is it socialist, it encourages critical thinking, which leads to questioning authority.
monkey
Any political party that betrays its base, by branding them "domestic radicals groups," has absolutely NO business existing.
sparrow
I-5 is the only nonstop link between Canada and Mexico, and directly serves all the major population centers of the West Coast (except San Francisco Bay Area, which is off to the west and indirectly served).
Flooding on I-5 indeed can get very disruptive.
Similar disruptions happened when the Northridge Earthquake destroyed sections of I-5 near Los Angeles, back in 1994.
For what it's worth. Democracy for America straw poll from November 6
Ole Hillary does quite a bit worse here - even if you throw out Al Gore votes....
Candidate % Votes
Representative Dennis Kucinich 31.97% 49364
Former Vice President Al Gore 24.77% 38242
Former Senator John Edwards 15.6% 24078
Senator Barack Obama 13.86% 21403
Senator Hillary Clinton 4.21% 6504
Governor Bill Richardson 4.09% 6309
Other 2.05% 3171
Senator Christopher Dodd 1.56% 2415
Senator Joe Biden 1.12% 1723
Former Senator Mike Gravel 0.77% 1182
Ralpheh
If anyone had a slam dunk in 2004, it was W. At least where I live - a so-called blue state. Latinos especially voted for W and the Republicans in droves, and that's why when
@@@@@@@@@@
Gore and Kerry won in California correct?
Ralpheh
Those stats show one thing, regardless of our positions on Hillary:
The base is irrelevant at the Democratic Party.
In fact, the Dems hate their base, calling them domestic radical terrorists.
I don't know what's worse - the Republican neoliberal/neocon agenda, or the Democratic disdain for its base.
Ralpheh
Gore won California.
So did Kerry - though barely. His only strength was the Bay Area.
SoCal was a flood of VIVA BUSH.
Thats cuz SoCal in now NoMex
monkey
There were lots of Vicente Fox and Felipe Calderon stickers on the Los Angeles freeways as well.
Of course, both were successful right wing PAN candidates for the Mexican presidency.
Ralph,
In 2004, there were people who had Kerry supporter stickers on their car who got the crap beat out of them.
I remember one group of Kerry supporters who came to the blog and told their story. They were setting up Kerry booths and got threatened all the time. For one young girl, she was trying outside a mall and someone threw a rock through her window. And another girl, got physically attacked by a group of Bushies in a parking lot. She was beat up so much that she went to the hospital.
So regardless of the perception that CA is a blue state--it's not blue across it. That's why the Republicans want to divide the electoral votes for the 2008 election. It's also why Mr. Sex in the City was funding the new initiative to do that.
And in CA, like in most states, the further you get from a city or a college, the more "red" it becomes.
And frankly, I think it re-writes history to say 2004 was a slamdunk because even in 2006, it was not a slamdunk. Given the amount of information that we've learned over the years about election fraud, corporate media lies and ignoring important stories, and even the people within out government who have created propaganda for W, it clear has never been a slam dunk for any election.
And until we break up the media and get the watchdog media back, we will never-ever have a slam dunk.
Iraq 'ready' for withdrawal
Sarah Smiles Persian Gulf and Brendan Nicholson Canberra
December 6, 2007
THE Iraqi Army is ready to "stand on its own two feet" and could cope with the withdrawal of Australian combat troops from southern Iraq, says Australia's top commander in the Middle East, Major-General Mark Evans.
As the United States yesterday said it fully accepted the Rudd Government's decision to pull combat troops out of southern Iraq, General Evans said the Iraqi army was competent.
More: http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/iraqi-army-ready-general/2007/12/05/1196812829388.html
The Iraqi army is ready to stand up, how interesting... anyone else see a nice neat little legacy marketing package being created in time for Dumbya's departure?
Let's see... Middle East Peace conferences, Iraq doing great, Americans with short term memory loss....
Seems rather.. (um...no pun intended) on topic.
DOA: Why the White House HAD TO Muzzle Rather Before the Fall 2004 Election
Read the whole thing at D.U.
What I found interesting is the correlation of the distance between the exit polls and the accuracy of the result
Via msnbc
Even in 2006, they attempted to keep pollsters from learning the truth from voters.
Like I said... no election is ever a slam dunk!
Monkey,
It's like I said before...the media has to create a story line to make Bush's legacy seem better because it's the only way they can get Republicans elected.
Earlier, you posted how Rove was threatening anyone who distanced themselves from the pResident. Looks like they're rolling out their sales pitch, just like they did the illegal war!
Bush: Iran has to explain nuclear intentions
Says Tehran must come clean about the scope of its ambitions
OMAHA, Neb. (AP) - President Bush tried to make more clear his position on Iran, today, as he arrived in Omaha, for a fundraiser and health care tour.
Standing on the tarmac at Eppley Airfield, the president said he had been briefed by his national security team on Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's consultations with international leaders and that the United Kingdom, German, France and Russia "clearly understand that the Iranian nuclear issue is a problem and continues to be a problem that must be addressed by the international community."
"It is clear from the NIE (National Intelligence Estimate) that the Iranian government has much to explain about its past activities and future intentions." Tehran, he said, faces the choice between "coming clean about the scope of its nuclear ambitions or they can continue on the path of isolation that is not in the best interests of its people."
Bush issued the stern warning as he sought to keep pressure on Iran despite a new intelligence report that Tehran halted its nuclear arms program four years ago, contradicting his earlier assertions that it was building an atom bomb.
-snip-
The White House said Wednesday that the United States would press ahead with its campaign for a third round of U.N. sanctions on Iran.
The shift in the intelligence community's thinking on Iran, however, was expected to stiffen resistance to further punitive measures.
"The Iranians have a strategic choice to make, they can come clean with the international community about the scope of their nuclear activities and fully accept the longstanding offer to suspend their enrichment program and come to the table and negotiate, or they can continue on a path of isolation that is not in the best interest of the Iranian people," Bush said.
"The choice is up to the Iranian regime," he added.
more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22112907/
Monkey - that's just in the south where the Aussies have been since they went to Iraq. And there was no doubt that some of our troops would be coming home after the new government was installed. Mid next year.
Gotcha woz, but bet me a nickel that the Bush mouthpieces begin touting how 'the Iraqi army is standing up, as illustrated by Australia's ability to withdraw its troops' or some such nonsense.
I feel a primal scream building.
sparrow
re: attacks on Kerry supporters - did they happen in Michigan or in California?
sparrow and Ralpheh
Another thing worth remembering re: California is that the tax revolt of the 1970s, and the resulting Reagan Revolution, all started in the suburbs of Los Angeles - specifically, Orange County.
Orange County was also home to a major John Bircher contingent, before Walt Disney built Disneyland in Anaheim and gave the place a more moderate image. Even now, Lou Sheldon's Traditional Values Coalition, with its bands of Latino homophobes, works out of Orange County.
There also were racial segregation laws here, back in the day. Most people are surprised to learn that a non-Confederate state out west even had segregation laws.
No wonder conservative nationalities, like the Koreans and the Vietnamese, love Orange County (though the latter also had to do with being housed at El Toro Marine Air Base upon evacuation from Vietnam).
Orange County is as red as it gets. No amount of "but California is a blue state" will change that fact.
Forgot to add...
Richard Nixon was another Orange County Republican.
Ally--sorry to be unclear. The attacks happened in CA. (Maybe it was Orange County too.)
sparrow
Got it.
Central Valley (the swath of land from Redding in the north to Bakersfield in the south) is also notoriously red. The only thing it lacks is Orange County's wealth.
State capital Sacramento is one happy exception to the Central Valley rule.
As for getting my car vandalized in my neck of woods - definite possibility. That's why my cars no longer have Kerry stickers on them (including a Honda that frequents military bases). Besides, I would look ridiculous having left-wing stickers on the most right-wing of cars - a BMW and a non-hybrid Honda. Will surely be looking for a hybrid or a more progressive car company next time I shop!
I think Bush is setting himself up to stay on. Just like he knew there were no WMDs in Iraq long before the invasion, he's known about the no nuclear bomb in Iran. He's trying to do what Howard did, with the difference that Bush needs to declare a State of Emergency in order to hang on to the top job - I think - is that right? Howard could have legally been reelected. He made it simple this time - no one believed a word he said.
Our main media outlets are equal to the tabloids in the UK and they are the reading material for the masses and are fairly conservative and right wing. They can't resist a scandal - or the tiniest smell of one and they milk it for all it's worth, no matter who the victim or perpetrator of the scandal is.
Ho Hum - it worked once. It worked twice with a little help each time from the cheat brigade. Surely people can be whipped into a fear-frenzy again - maybe another little 9/11-style catastrophe to ensure that it works.
woz, If people in this country can't see thru the stupid by now, I... I... ugh, I can't say without Christy comin' down on me for being a drag!
Negatorium.
Check it out, he actually said 'president' and 'LYING' in the same sentence.
This morning, the cast of Morning Joe chided Bush’s claim. Co-host Willie Geist said, “It’s just not a credible answer, I’m afraid.” Host Joe Scarborough ripped into Bush, saying that president is either “lying to the American people” or is simply “stupid”:
"We are left with only two options here. Either the President of the United States is lying to the American people about what happened during that meeting, or the President of the United States is stupid."
Watch it:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/05/scarborough-bush-nie/
Sparrow
The photo is halfway between Portland and Seattle so traffic has to be diverted pretty far east.
I have seen fallen trees and poles, swollen streams, flooded basements, sandbags both in Seattle and in Everett. We had some flooding in our basement. It was pretty amazing.
This was the Pineapple Express. Gravity brings the rain and melted snow from the rivers downward and westward from the mountains toward the ocean, engulfing everyting in their path.
What can we expect in the future with global warming?!
Full Page ad in today's New York Times
Monkey, it is flat out brainwashing.
The perception that our people are self mutilating persists because to the outside world, and even to us who are enlightened here, the 'American people ' are 'smart and educated', so it has to be self mutilation. It does look deliberate but that is where the perception is complete fantasy,
Our people are addicted to TV, by impulse, by design, whatever. And the evil power hungry bastards of the world have figured out how to use our tvs to literally BRAINWASH us.
The war can't be that bad cause they say it isn't bad, and look the only pics I see are of 'good news' so it must be ok. Even the presidents 'critics' the 'liberal media' say it is for the best so it must be for the best. If we do not KNOW 737s exist..how can we possibly know how to consider it's uses, or even fly it?
They are using tactics straight from Hitlers playbook. It is not just about 'propoganda', it is about turning an entire nation on its head while you loot and kill people.
The fact is, if you offerered me a billion dollars, or control of all the info everyone else consumes, I would take the info. Controlling the information to millions of people gives you GOD LIKE powers.
Greed is never about the 'money'. It is about the POWER such enourmous concentrated wealth can command.
Everything that has happened has been about POWER. And when you can turn millions of people into zombie slaves, ready to kill or die for you on whim...THAT is power.
When you can blackmail, say the head of the UN, and change the course of history with a rumor... That is power.
And until people realize and admit they are being BRAINWASHED, they do not KNOW they are being brainwashed.
They are not 'asleep', they are HYPNOTIZED! Two very different states of reality.
I literally went through a 'deprogramming stage' after I stopped watching television. To this day it was one of the most painful and horrifying experiences I ever endured, and it was all IN MY HEAD.
Until we understand we are dealing with the mezmerized and not the sleeping, nothing you try to do to 'wake them' will work.
That is why no REAL images of the war are getting through. Nothing like the sight of mangled and dead women and children to snap you out of a trance.
The White House comment line in tatters - broken, after 7 years of a lousy president.
Within the last 5 days the Comment Line has been closed for "special events". Today, supposedly, there is a special event. Curious, I called the regular White House operator and asked what today's "special event" was. She told me she didn't know. I pressed asking if she didn't know or just wasn't going to tell me. She said she didn't know and that they just got word that it was closed down. I asked when they got word that it had closed down. She told me 3 p.m.
I wonder if they are now closing the comment line early because they are having a difficult time staffing it. It's all hapless volunteers who work the phones and with the President's low approval rating I can imagine there are plenty of critical calls - not just from me....
Are you kidding...?
I bet they shut down the comment lines because now EVERYONE knows bush was lying about Iran.
If no calls come in dissenting, then that must mean there is no dissent.
It makes perfect sense if you are evil.
Bomb in Baghdad today:
By HAMID AHMED, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 53 minutes ago
BAGHDAD - A car bomb exploded in a largely Shiite neighborhood Wednesday, killing at least 16 people, just as Defense Secretary Robert Gates visited the capital and said a secure and stable Iraq was within reach.
ADVERTISEMENT
It was the deadliest of four bombs in Iraq on Wednesday that killed a total of 25 people. Earlier, a blast went off in the northern city of Mosul, where Gates had landed on his sixth trip to Iraq.
Gunfire and sirens followed the bombing in Baghdad's Karradah neighborhood, and a plume of smoke rose in the sky.
Karradah has frequently been hit by car bombings, but attacks have tapered off in recent months. Cafes, shops and kebab stands have flourished anew in the neighborhood.
Firas Adel, who owns a clothing store about 400 yards from the site of the explosion, said terrified bystanders fled when the bomb went off.
The Missing Emails caper - 1,000,000 lost?
Bush administration being sued:
Waxman, Mukasey and Ten Million Missing Emails
By Matt Renner
t r u t h o u t | Report
Wednesday 05 December 2007
A government watchdog group now says at least ten million White House emails, which may contain information about the leak of Valerie Plame Wilson's covert CIA status, have been destroyed by the Bush administration.
In a report from April, Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) detailed a massive hole in the White House email records. The report, titled "Without a Trace: The Missing White House Emails and the Violations of the Presidential Records Act," accused the Bush administration of destroying "more than 5 million" emails and failing to attempt to recover them.
According to CREW, their sources now tell them the number of missing emails is at least ten million.
Anne Weisman, CREW's chief counsel said the revised estimate "highlights that this is a very serious and systematic problem at the White House." Currently CREW, along with The National Security Archives are suing the Bush administration in an attempt to force the administration to restore the missing documents from backup tapes.
The missing email were discovered in the fall of 2005 when staff at the White House Office of Administration were attempting to respond to a subpoena from Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald for any White House records relating to the leak of Plame Wilson's identity.
The CREW report includes a letter from Fitzgerald that shows his investigation was hampered by problems with the White House email archiving system. "... we have learned that not all email of the office of the Vice President and the Executive Office of the President for certain time periods in 2003 was preserved through the normal archiving process on the White House computer system," Fitzgerald wrote in his letter to I. Lewis Libby's attorneys.
The report detailed two separate possible violations of the Presidential Records Act (PRA), a law passed in the wake of the Watergate scandal that requires the preservation of all presidential documents for the historical record. The first violation was the use of unofficial email accounts by White House staff to conduct official business. This revelation made headlines during the US attorney firings investigation, which remains ongoing.
NMP
I hope your basement isn't too badly damaged! Especially the JK room (it's in the basement if I remember correctly - right?)...
US has a new free trade deal with Peru. The Senate just approved it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7129350.stm
W wants to spread free trade to counter Chavez. What a crock of crap - as if Chavez is a classic Commie opposed to all trade.
And speaking of the US mainstream media, after NAFTA, nobody is reporting anything on these new, potentially life-changing free trade deals.
Talk about an ACT OF BRAVERY. God Bless and watch over you little one
Detroit girl, 7, takes six bullets to save mom
Enraged ex-boyfriend tried to shoot mother; little girl, hospitalized, survives.
Just called Pelosi's office about impeaching Cheney and about whether there will be a press release on the Iran SCREW-UP.
(the California office is still open; the Washington office couldn't give a damn.... but if the phone rings off the hook tomorrow...)
Washington Office:
235 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-0508
Phone: (202) 225-4965
Fax: (202) 225-8259
Main District Office:
450 Golden Gate Avenue
San Francisco, CA 94102
Phone: (415) 556-4862
Fax: (415) 861-1670
Sy Hersh says on CNN that Cheney and others knew Iran was not working on a bomb for perhaps a year
LOOKS LIKE THE REPUBLICANS ARE SCREWING WITH THE RON PAUL PEOPLE:
STRAW POLL CANCELLED AT LAST MINUTE IN SAN FRANCISCO
Violence dips, stable Iraq 'within reach,' Gates says
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Violence in Iraq has fallen to its lowest level in almost two years, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Wednesday.
The goal of stability in Iraq is "within reach," Gates said during a visit to Baghdad. But he cautioned patience as insurgent attacks have not stopped.
As he spoke, a car bomb attack in the capital killed 15 and wounded 32, an Iraqi Interior Ministry official said.
It was the latest in a series of deadly car bombs during his stay. And U.S. troops losses continued, with three soldiers reported killed in fighting on Tuesday.
But the secretary outlined the signs of progress that have been reported by the military in recent months, strides attributed in part to the U.S. military troop escalation called the "surge."
He said there's been "a decline in violence to levels not seen" since the bombing of the Askariya Mosque in Samarra in February 2006. That event sparked a wave of Sunni-Shiite sectarian violence.
Other examples of progress are a "substantial increase" in refugees returning to Iraq, rising international investment, and the thousands of Iraqi civilians who have been recruited to provide security help in neighborhoods.
"These positive developments have led to a growing sense of normalcy and hope," Gates said.
Many insurgents are believed to have migrated north, to places like Mosul, and while Gates said the challenges continue for troops in that area, he called the threats in that region now "less sophisticated."
"More than ever, I believe the goal of a secure and stable and democratic Iraq is within reach. We need to be patient and need to be resolved in desire to see signs of hope across Iraq flourish so all Iraqis can enjoy peace and prosperity," said Gates, who visited Iraq after stops in Afghanistan and Djibouti.
more...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/12/05/iraq.main/index.html
I wanna believe, but why can't I?
Ralpheh
It's San Francisco, where Republicans are only a minor party... The two major parties are Democrats and Greens. :)
Some personal thoughts I have on the Venezuelan reform defeat:
http://rachelkso.blogspot.com/2007/12/meanwhile-in-venezuela.html
Dictatorship is dictatorship, no matter how well-intentioned, and no matter how nice the dictator (Chavez, in this case) behaves to us (the American left). The people of Venezuela have spoken, and that's a good thing. Now, it's W's turn to shut up.
Yeah Ally, but W won't shut up until the people shut him up, maybe not even then, and that ain't gonna happen anytime soon unless I'm dreamin'.
Cusack: Bush photo ban one of 'most cowardly political acts' in my lifetime
by David Edwards and Jason Rhyne
Published: Tuesday December 4, 2007
When the Bush administration began enforcing a controversial policy banning photographs of military caskets returning from Iraq, the move provoked outrage -- and now, a film -- from actor John Cusack, who calls the media ban "one of the most cowardly political acts" of his lifetime.
Appearing on PBS with host Tavis Smiley, Cusack explained that his new movie, Grace is Gone, is the result of a storytelling interest largely inspired by the Bush photo policy.
"The screenwriter, James Strouse, had approached my company and I had been looking for a story, a human drama to tell about the Iraq conflict," said Cusack. "It stemmed from a place of outrage for me when the Bush administration banned the photos of the dead coming home." That directive, ordered in 2003 at Dover Air Force Base, was technically on the books prior to Bush's presidency, but was seldom enforced.
"I thought that was one of the most cowardly political acts I'd seen in my lifetime, in some ways" the actor said. "So I thought, we have to tell the story of one of those coffins coming home, right? It seemed clear that would be a really smart thing to do."
Asked by Smiley to explain his characterization of the Bush decision as "cowardly," Cusack said that if the war was worth fighting, its casualties should be appropriately honored.
"I just think that, if this war is going to be fought and if it is as important as he says it is, I think the least we can do is stop our days and pay honor to the people making the ultimate sacrifice for this," he added. "I mean, they were trying to say...we'll tell you when we can grieve and get our photo ops when we go to the bases and visit the families and we're going to control this along with everything else."
Concluded Cusack, "I thought, my God, if this is really happening, we should all know about this every day. We should stop our days, right?"
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Bush_political_cowardice_prompted_new_John_1204.html
Neocons believe US intelligence community too timid after Iraq
Following its botched reports about Iraq's weapons capabilities, the US intelligence community is now too gun-shy to get it right about Iran, according to some hawkish conservatives who have advocated possible military intervention against the country.
Newly declassified portions of a new National Intelligence Estimate -- which indicates that Iran no longer actively developing a nuclear weapon -- are part of an effort by the US intelligence community to avoid a repeat of its mistakes in the run-up to war with Iraq, former US ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton told Fox News.
"They're so concerned about overstating the threat in Iraq, that they're overcompensating in the wrong direction," Bolton said. "You know they've changed their estimate on Iran from just two years ago. One has to ask why we should be more inclined to believe this one today than the one two years ago." A 2005 NIE reported Iran was "determined" develop nuclear capability.
Bolton characterized the White House as having been taken aback by the n