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Torture, Destruction of Evidence, Obstruction of Justice--Just a Typical Day in the Bush Administration
Let's be frank here.
The recent discovery of documents related to the torture videotapes that were destoyed is old news, not new. The fact is that since 2001, our government has tortured, lied about the torture, and destroyed court ordered evidence and documents of the torture. In other words, they've done everything they can to cover their own asses.
Ask Jesselyn Radack.
If you don't know who Jesselyn Radack is, rest assured that Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Gonzalez, Rumsfeld, De Pue, Cherthoff and other high ranking officials do. Jesselyn Radack was the ethics advisor at the Department of Justice in 2001 at the onset of America's emerging torture policies. She was also one of the first to witness how far this administration would go to destroy evidence of their torture and to attack anyone who revealed them to the public.
Take a short trip down memory lane.
Most of us surely remember the famous picture of John Walker Lindh--naked, blindfolded, strapped and bound to a board with the word "SHITHEAD" sprawled across the duct-tape on his forhead, as he was lifted out of the freezing cold, unlit shipping container, where he'd been bound for days. He suffered dehydration, hypothermia, and frostbite. Parts of his torture had even been caught on videotape.
Remember that?
And most of us remember Ashcroft standing in front of a microphone saying:
"Today I'm announcing the filing of criminal charges against John Walker Lindh, an American citizen who was captured in Afghanistan fighting for the Taliban. ......As set forth in the complaint, the charges filed against Walker are based on voluntary statements made by Walker himself. The complaint alleges Walker knowingly and purposely allied himself with certain terrorist organizations with terror; that he chose to embrace fanatics; and his allegiance to those fanatics and terrorists never faltered, not even with the knowledge that they had murdered thousands of his countrymen, not with the knowledge that they were engaged in a war with the United States, and not, finally, in the prison uprising that took the life of CIA agent Johnny Spann.
...Walker is in the process from being transferred from the custody of the United States military, where by his own account he was treated well and received adequate food and medical treatment, to the custody of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
As the complaint states, prior to being interviewed by the FBI, Walker was informed of his Miranda rights, including the right to speak to consul. He acknowledged that he understood each of his rights, and he choose to waive them both verbally and in a signed document.
Remember that too?
Well, Ashcroft was lying. Jesselyn Radack knew he was lying. She had the proof. Official documentation. A judge hearing the Lindh case asked for her documents but suddenly those documents had disappeared. When Jesselyn discovered that Ashcroft, Du Pue, and other superiors at the DOJ had not given the court ordered documents to the judge, Jesselyn became investigator and whistleblower.
What were her documents and why were they so important to hide from the court of law and the American people? Why were these documents so important that the Bush administration intentionally destroyed them?
According to Jesselyn, she had emails in which she informed the government that they should not interview Lindh without an attorney present. She had evidence that Lindh did have an attorney, and yet he was held in captivity, stashed in a freezing storage container for two days, and when he was released he was offered a document to sign--his confession. And not once during those times did Lindh have access to his attorney.
Jesselyn wrote in her memoirs:
Shortly after meeting with Frank Lindh, Brosnahan faxed a letter to a number of key government officials, including Secretary of State Powell, Attorney General Ashcroft, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, CIA Director, George Tenet, and CIA General Counsel Robert McNamara, Jr. The letter informed them that Brosnahan had been hired by Lindh's parents to represent their son and asked that any further interrogation of him be stopped."
On December 7th, Lindh was flown to Camp Rhino, a U.S. Marine base in the high Afghan desert south of Kandahar, a former stronghold of the Taliban regime. He was blindfolded, stripped naked, bound to a stretcher with duct tape, taunted, threatened and locked in an unheated metal shipping container that sat on the floor in the bitter cold. That day, on what I thought would be a laid-back Friday, I received a call from John De Pue, a counter-terrorism prosecutor in the Criminal Division's Terrorism and Vilent Crime Section.
"The FBI wants to interview American Taliban member John Walker sometime next week, " De Pue advised. "The interview would occur in Afghanistan. Walker's father retained counsel for him and the FBI wants to question Walker about taking up arms against the U.S."
This type of situation raised red flags at PRAO because the ethics rules prohibit communication with people represented by counsel. We were told unambiguously that Lindh had counsel. In the advice we later rendered, the premise that Lindh had counsel was never questions. We never suggested for a minute the argument that he was somehow not "really" represented--the argument Ashcroft ultimately adopted.
Compare that to Ashcroft's statement again:
As the complaint states, prior to being interviewed by the FBI, Walker was informed of his Miranda rights, including the right to speak to consel. He acknowledged that he understood each of his rights, and he choose to waive them both verbally and in a signed document
Clearly, you can see that Ashcroft lied, period!
Yet, Jesselyn wrote more in her memoir that proved our nation was torturing and admitting confessions under torture as legally binding evidence:
On December 9th at Camp Rhino, after two days in the steel shipping container, Lindh was taken out. FBI agent Christopher Reimann began extracting the confession from Lindh that became the basis for the eventual and ill-advised criminal case. Reimann read Lindh the Maranda warning, but admits that when noting the right to counsel, he ad-libbed, "Of course, there are no lawyers here." Lindh was not told that his parents had retained an attorney for him who was willing to fly to Afghanistan. Worried that he would be returned to the container, which in fact happened at the conclusion fo the two-day interrogation, Lindh signed the waiver, which was improperly administered and clearly raised voluntariness issues.
On Monday De Pue called again with news from the Deputy Legal Adviso of the FBI: despite our advice not to question Lindh without counsel, an agent went and interviewed him over the weekend."
De Pue wanted to know what to do now.
Later, Jesselyn relays how the PRAO was in crisis management mode. She stated:
Meanwhile, Claudia told me to pull all the advice our office had ever issued in cases of "unauthorized cantracts" (unethical contracts with a person represented by counsel), which I did. ...
...two weeks after he had been transferred to our military custody, Navy physicians finally removed the bullet from his leg. I followed up repeatedly with John De Pue but received no response, which was unusual because he was the one who had initiated both of the contacts with our office. At the same time, Claudia told me, "Our office's involvement in this matter is over."
This abrupt termination was unprecedented when our office's advice had been flouted because part of our mission was to insulate Department attorneys from future allegations of ethical misconduct."
...I soon learned why.
Jesselyn then wrote about how Office of Legal Counsel, the same office that wrote the Patriot Act also provided agruments to keep U.S. officials from being charged with war crimes for the way prisoners were detained and treated. In January 2002, the memos from the Defense Department attempted to address if the Geneva Conventions applied to detainees. Here's the timeline:
- January 24, 2002--literally six weeks after being forced, bound, and trapped in a freezing container, Lindh arrived home battered and haggard and in time for his first court appearance where he got to meet his attorneys for the first time.
- On January 25, Gonzalez wrote the memo that rendered the Geneva Conventions obsolete.
- On January 26, Powell wrote a memo to the Gonzalez making clear that the Geneva Conventions applied and why.
- On February 1, 2002, Ashcroft wrote a 12 paragraph memo warning that if Bush sided with the State department then American officials would wind up going to jail for violating U.S. and the International laws.
- On Februrary 7, 2002, President Bush announced who he would apply the Geneva Conventions to and who he wouldn't.
President Bush determined, with a little help from his friends, that the Geneva Conventions didn't apply and that he would rule who deserved to be tortured and who would be protected by POW status under the Geneva Conventions.
Obviously, this was another case of trying to cover their asses. Break a law...so change the law.
The torture and timeline above shows with out a doubt how torture was committed, against the advice of the ethics advisor in the DOJ, and against the law of this land. But the coverup began as John Walker Lindh's case was being heard in Eastern Virginia by U.S. District Court Judge T.S. Ellis, III.
Once again, we refer to Jesselyn's memoir's:
Judge Ellis ordered that "all copies of the Justice Department's internal correspondence about the conditions of Lindh's interrogation be sent to him so that he could determine if the documents should be passed on to the defense team. Claudia concealed the order from me.
...March 7, 2002, was a pivotal day for me, when two and two finally added up to four. I go to work to find an e-mail from Assistant U.S. Attorney Randy Bellows, the lead prosecutor in the Lindh case. he informed me that he had filed with the court two of my e-mails with De Pue, but wanted confirmation that he had all the Lindh-related communications I had written so that he could comply with the Court's discovery order. I wondered, "What discovery order?" His contact was my first alert to the discovery order. No one within PRAO had advised me of the Court's order or asked me to assist with compliance, even though I was the author and most likely source of the materials sought by the Court. Morever, I had written far more than two e-mails."
There's more Jesselyn discovered:
I was concerned immediately becaue I knew there were many more e-mails than the couple.
...Claudia came in shortly afterwards and I rushed to tell her in person about this development. She got very defensive. Staring daggers at me, she whispered in a slow, deliberate voice, "I sent everything that was in the file."
I went and checked the hard copy file, which had been an inch-thick stack of paper bound by a heavy-duty, long-reach staple. I felt sick as soon as I saw what was--and what was not--inside.
So here we arrive at today, and what brought on this massive article.
Today, Jesselyn forced herself to post a diary at DailyKos, Jesselyn states:
My e-mail advising against interrogating him without a lawyer "disappeared." So all of this sounds hauntingly familiar.
The CIA videotapes documented agency operatives subjecting terrorist suspects to severe interrogation techniques. My e-mails documented my advice against interrogating Lindh without a lawyer, and concluded that the FBI committed an ethics violation when it did so anyway. Abu Zubaydah was subjected to waterboarding. John Walker Lindh was stripped, bound, blindfolded and stuffed into a frigid steel shipping container. Both the CIA videotapes and my e-mails were destroyed in part because officials were concerned that they documented controversial interrogation methods.
On July 12, 2002, the Defense Department was apoplectic that its new policy on the torture of captives in the war on terrorism was going to be exposed. It was a Friday and Lindh's suppression hearing--which was going to expose who did what to him--was scheduled for Monday. The Defense Department made it clear to the Justice Department that it wanted the suppression hearing blocked. Michael Chertoff, the Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division (and now the head of the Department of Homeland Security) who was overseeing all the Justice Department's terrorism prosecutions, had the prosecution team offer a deal: the serious charges against Lindh would be dropped an he would plead guilty to just two technical charges AND . . .he would have to sign a statement swearing that he had "not been intentionally mistreated" by his captors and waiving any future right to claim mistreatment or torture.
The CIA and government withholding from the courts information about torturing terrorism suspects is not new and everyone's feigned surprise and outrage adds insult to injury. Not just injury to Zacarias Moussaoui or John Walker Lindh, but injury to the transparency that underpins democracy.
Since 2002, members of Congress and the media have known about this. Both Republican and Democratic members of Congress have failed to call for direct testimony under oath, and yet they feign surprise and send out righteous words of innocence to the media and to their distraught constituents?
Jesselyn has made a Herculean effort to get her memoirs to members of Congress. Take a look at the list of Senators and Representatives who have received her book and yet still failed to call her to testify under oath and have failed to call anyone else involved too.
- Senator Leahy
- Senator Levin
- Senator Schumer
- Senator McCain
- Representative Pelosi
- Representative Waxman
- Representative Conyers
- Senator Stabenow
So yeh...like the title says, "Torture, Destruction of Evidence, Obstruction of Justice--Just a typical day in the White House."
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There you have it all. Today is Jesselyn's birthday, but I'm hoping she'll pop in here and answer any questions you put forth.
(P.S. Please excuse any typos or wierd coding above because it's been a terrible day trying to write it with all my computer issues.)
I am gonna hurl.
Are there circumstances in which waterboarding of prisoners is acceptable?
Yes 55% 46074
No 45% 37437
That is so shameful Monkey sadly, I think that it will take another 9/11 for America, and the majority of the American People to understand the damage they have committed on the world community, You had the world community with you after 9/11, I think if a thing like that where to happen today, American would be standing very much alone.
monkey
American neoliberals have an euphemism to refer to themselves - LIBERTARIANS.
But that doesn't make them any less evil.
At least Lindh got attorney representation.
Jose Padilla, another US citizen under the same charges, never got it.
Ally,
There is no at least. Ever.
It is suppose to be a right--an unalienable right.
No at least about it.
SHEEHAN RUNNING AGAINST PELOSI. I don't recall if she is running as a Democrat or an Independent...
We would be standing alone, Kangaroo, and we'd damn well deserve it too... and truthfully, another 9/11 would not awaken Americans to the damage that has been done by this utterly corrupt adminstration, it would be screaming to nuke someone. That's how ass backwards its gotten over here.
Even moreso, the inability of the citizens to hold its elected officials ACCOUNTABLE, to put a stop to it, after impeaching a president for a "moral failing"; to allow this to go on, to endanger our very way of life by turning a blind eye to what appears to be count after count of the most clear cut violations of the American spirit, it is beyong my comprehension anymore.
If 55% of the people believe waterboarding would be ok under some circumstances, then we can no longer be considered the home of the brave, period.
We are one more attack away from collectively crapping our pants as a nation, and it was all brought to you by an absolute DIPSHIT of a president, who couldn't think his way out of a paper bag.
What the hell has happened to the land I love?
x posted at Kos. If you'd like to recommend, it'd be appreciated.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/12/153618/76
Wow, Sens. Feinstein, Durbin, Graham, Cardin rake the military and DOJ over the coals for Guantanamo, military commission and torture
rtsp://video.c-span/project/ter/ter121107_judiciary.rm?mode =compact
Big effin woop, so they raked em over the coals... is anything gonna be done about it?
Show me, dont snow me.
The above hearing on Guantanamo was yesterday, at the Senate Judiciary Committee with Fienstein chairing. She said we could close Gitmo today - there are only 310 prisoners left there and Feinstein mentioned that we have plenty of un occupied, max security beds at U.S. military brigs, and federal prisons.. More than enough to accomodate the Gitmo people..
Just to let you know...Ralph tried to get Jesselyn on NPR or PBS and was told that Jesselyn's story was "old news" and not relevant.
Feinstein mentioned legislation - both to deal, judicially, with the prisoners because the system they have now stinks and, perhaps, to direct the president to close Gitmo.
Listen - don't bitch at me - I have already made 4 long distance calls on this matter - Pelosi DC, Pelosi California, Conyers, House Judiciary Comm. Why don't you try....
And listen folks, I just bet the phone ain't ringing off the hook in Washington and the fax's, cards and letters aren't pouring in..
Ralph,
You know they aren't when the they can stay on the line and chat or answer questions.
But you have to make it happen on Kos, DU, FDL, and everywhere offline too.
I've stood at gas-stations and allowed people to use my phone to call.
Here are the numbers:
Speaker's Office D.C.: 202-225-0100
Pelosi's California office: (415) 556-4862
Rep Conyers DC (202) 225-5126
Rep. Conyers Michigan (313) 961-5670
OH..btw...I know the coding in the blockquotes got off. (It looked right in preview) but please read them. They came directly from her book--although the mistypings are mine. IT's due to the fact that my hands can't handle that much typing at one sitting and also due to the fact that since I downloaded Microsoft 07, my computer has worked like it's treading through heavy, thick mud. And my computer stunk before I even got the 2007 installed!
Another btw...
Jesselyn is going to post this evening if her registration worked correctly.
So it's your chance to ask her some meaningful questions and get a real response from a real-live former DOJ official.
If 55% of the people believe waterboarding would be ok under some circumstances, then we can no longer be considered the home of the brave, period.
Sadly, Sadly, to true Monkey
The above hearing on Guantanamo was yesterday, at the Senate Judiciary Committee with Fienstein chairing. She said we could close Gitmo today - there are only 310 prisoners left there and Feinstein mentioned that we have plenty of un occupied, max security beds at U.S. military brigs, and federal prisons.. More than enough to accomodate the Gitmo people..
=======
And put and end to Georgies perverted thrills, I dont think so
sparrow Author Profile Page said:
Just to let you know...Ralph tried to get Jesselyn on NPR or PBS and was told that Jesselyn's story was "old news" and not relevant.
December 12, 2007 4:30 PM
@@@@@
I talked to their legal reporter - Ari Shapiro - Shapiro was not interested in Radeck, he told me he had plenty of contacts at DOJ. I believe I left a message on Nina Totenberg's answering machine too, although she, technically, only deals with the Supreme Court.
Late Update: I should mention that Bond is the ranking Republican on the Senate intelligence committee.
GOP Senator Says Waterboarding Is "Like Swimming, Freestyle, Backstroke"
Sen. Kit Bond (R-MO), last night on PBS' Newshour:
GWEN IFILL: I just would like to -- but do you think that waterboarding, as I described it, constitutes torture?
SEN. KIT BOND: There are different ways of doing it. It's like swimming, freestyle, backstroke. The waterboarding could be used almost to define some of the techniques that our trainees are put through, but that's beside the point. It's not being used.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/060885.php
Late Update: I should mention that Bond is the ranking Republican on the Senate intelligence committee.
With Senators the likes of this, One can understand the decline of the American Empire.
I'd like you guys to focus on the shipping containers....
Ok. So Lindh was tortured and shoved into an isolated, freezing cold shipping container, while naked and strapped to a board for 2 days approx.
And then you have that young girl who was raped and shoved into a shipping container as well.
The shipping containers...
Does that imply a link that hadn't been explored before?
How would our gov't be allowed to have access to a shipping container without the permission of a corporation to use theirs?
Was the same corporation providing the shipping containers?
How many other people have been shoved into those containers?
But you have to make it happen on Kos, DU, FDL, and everywhere offline too.
I've stood at gas-stations and allowed people to use my phone to call.
@@@@@@
The Democratic Overground????
LOL - I got kicked out of DU/DO for being too critical of Queen Hillary, the Inevitable...
NPR just interviewed a former CIA agent. He said that the CIA waterboarded Abu Zubaydeh and he broke quickly. The agent said that the CIA got clearance from Washington to "torture" (waterboard) in questioning Abu Z. and that the CIA was not free-lancing on the enhanced techniques.
Don't forget to watch Hardball tonight. I have no idea when...but watch!
Bush hates children.
http://www6.comcast.net/news/articles/general/2007/12/12/Bush.Veto/
He vetoed the Children's Health bill again.
He is not pro-life at all.
Karen will be on NEXT!!!
Karen - you were awesome!
And I think he liked you, he really liked you!
Muslim helps Jews attacked on New York subway
NEW YORK (CNN) -- A Muslim man jumped to the aid of three Jewish subway riders after they were attacked by a group of young people who objected to one of the Jews saying "Happy Hanukkah," a spokeswoman for the three said Wednesday.
The New York Police Department's Hate Crimes Task Force is investigating Friday's incident on the Q train.
Friday's altercation on the Q train began when somebody yelled out "Merry Christmas," to which rider Walter Adler responded, "Happy Hanukkah," said Toba Hellerstein.
"Almost immediately, you see the look in this guy's face like I've called his mother something," Adler told CNN affiliate WABC.
Two women who were with a group of 10 rowdy people then began to verbally assault Adler's companions with anti-Semitic language, Hellerstein said.
One member of the group allegedly yelled, "Oh, Hanukkah. That's the day that the Jews killed Jesus," she said.
When Adler tried to intercede, a male member of the group punched him, she said.
Another passenger, Hassan Askari -- a Muslim student from Bangladesh -- came to Adler's aid, and the group began physically and verbally assaulting him, Hellerstein said.
"A Muslim-American saved us when our own people were on the train and didn't do anything," Adler said.
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/12/12/subway.attack/
Karen - you were awesome!
Anyone got a link to the VIDEO
Carol,
I agree that he liked Karen very much.
I have to admit I wondered if I should have sent some of my hubby's fencing buddies with Karen (x2) to defend her (them).
But I knew Karen's own husband would valiantly defend her honor, if need be.
Basra: Hundreds of vehicles and 20 tons of lead disappear from government ware houses
Mustafa al-Hashemi, Azzaman
Unidentified gunmen stormed government ware houses in the southern city of Basra and stole 375 government cars and 20 tons of lead, police sources say. The robbery is reported to be the largest and most organized in the years since the U.S. invasion of the country. The robbers were said to by carrying forged papers which enabled them to drive away with the vehicles, the sources refusing to be named said. The lead has disappeared from government warehouses in central Iraq....
http://www.azzaman.com/english/index.asp?fname=news%5C2007-12-12%5Ckurd.htm
monkey said
And isn't that so bloody-minded of the victim-mentality of the American people that the US government has been carefully and not so carefully penetrating the collective American mind with. Oh - how can the world be so cruel to us? All we do is go out and help people everywhere. And no one helps us. From anywhere. Poor us!
We are so indebted to the Jesselyn Radacks of the world and yet we don't seem to accept our responsibility with this information that she has given to us. At enormous personal, emotional, spiritual and financial expense. Government without integrity is simply a gigantic Organised Crime unit immune from any law anywhere on the planet.
The last I knew Jesselyn was still having to drive the length and breadth of your country. This woman is so dangerous she can't be permitted to fly. Now - there are your victims. John Walker Lindh. David Hicks. And all of those who drowned whilst being water boarded and those who died under interrogation and those whose brains have rendered them impotent to themselves like David Hicks, who will be put under a control order after his release from prison in a few weeks.
The Australian Federal Police collectively cannot trust the man they arranged with their US counterparts to ensure would be braindead on his return. These big strapping muscly AFP morons are afraid of this little mentally incapacitated almost vegetative peaceful walking zombie.
When the world turns away for the next one. Only the greediest will go and hold the hands of the greediest Americans and sympathise with them.
The rest of us will be opening our doors to you lot - the Jesselyns and all the whistleblowers of the world, the JWLs and DHs - refugees welcome. We will have to send our own seedy criminals wearing bravely wearing their uniforms to cower with the rest of the criminals at the higher end of town. Well - that's mine and kangaroos houses filled overflowing but we've got friends with open doors too.
oops. I meant to preview that diatribe. bugger.
I suggest that people watch at least the first hour of the testimony of the Judiciary Committee on Guantanamo. This lays out the case for closing Gitmo. The second hour with the second panel is even more interesting. A professor at Seton Hall University looked at ALL the information that the Defense Department has released on the "detainees".
Amazingly and remarkably the administration and the Republicans continue TO LIE about the circumstances of the capture of the detainees. The talking point constantly used by the administration and the military has been that these detainees were captured "on the field of battle" shooting at Americans. THIS TURNS OUT TO BE A HUGE LIE. The vast majority were not "caught" on the battlefield and not even caught by Americans. Most detainees were turned in to the Americans by other Afghans, Pakistanis or by other informants.
Of the over 700 originally held at GITMO, FOUR HUNDRED HAVE BEEN RELEASED!!!! I.E. Over half have been completely let go - without even a single charge being levied....
The Code Pink ladies were at this hearing but no one was arrested....
Beyond swimming freestyle, backstroke? So - when that moron swims freestyle or backstroke he never has his face out of water? Or does he have a snorkel. Well give the victims of waterboarding a big long snorkel!! Umm, I don't know of any swimmers who breathe in water for the fun of it. And if it was such fun for the victims - why would they want to do it to them?
ralpheh said
For ransom, ralpheh. Even the Taliban turned some in for ransom. It mattered not to the American military - what mattered were the numbers captured/bought. The Taliban and US military had a roaring trade going for years. There's an al jazeera journalist still in Gitmo - sold by the Taliban. His British cameraman was sent home - shouting about the injustice and mistakes made about his friend.
Can't get the direct link to Karen's appearance on Hardball, but if you go here, and click on Debate Body Language you can get there:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/
Yeah - so? They'll never get into trouble for ensuring some detainees vanish.
Gitmo troops vandalise Wikipedia
December 13, 2007 - 10:34AM
US military personnel at Guantanamo Bay called Fidel Castro a transsexual and defended the prison for terrorism suspects in anonymous web postings, an internet group that publishes government documents said today.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/web/gitmo-troops-vandalise-wikipedia/2007/12/13/1197135602444.html
Guys:
I am stupid and naive. But if I don't sleep soundly, it's not because I condone torture in any way. Torture is always wrong. If some lives are lost because somebody didn't torture someone, well, that is the blood price of freedom. So if I am stupid and naive you can kick me in the head as much as you want and, if I am honest, I will not change my tune.
Chuck in Houston
And if we aren't complete cowards and idiots, freedom will win.
And when I say "we" I mean human beings.
Chuck,
Not sure I understand your point, but if I were not guilty of anything but someone turned me in or were hurting me, I'd probably sign anything to get it to stop. I'd probably hurt myself or maybe them too.
I've seen too many instances when someone points the finger at someone else rather than take responsibility for their own actions. And I've seen too many times when an innocent person gets hurt because someone else lied or didn't stop a crime.
So, I know you're not pro-torture, but you have to admit that until you walk in someone elses' shoes, you have no clue if you'd say, "uncle" or not.
BTW...I've fixed the coding in the thread header. Sorry it took so long, but the fact is that I was too petrified that my i.e. would shut down before I could finish.
And I had too many things on the computer to risk losing them too.
So inside the block quotes are things I had to type out directly from Jesselyn's book. Of course it would have been easier to c/p it into the document, but due to this stupid computer, it was not an option.
My hands, wrists, and fingers are killing me from all that typing. (insert crocodile tears)
For ransom, ralpheh. Even the Taliban turned some in for ransom. It mattered not to the American military - what mattered were the numbers captured/bought. The Taliban and US military had a roaring trade going for years. There's an al jazeera journalist still
@@@@@@@@
This was covered at the Senate hearing by Professor Denbow(sp?). He said only a tiny ( I mean tiny) fraction of the GITMO detainees were actually captured BY AMERICANS AND ON THE BATTLEFIELD. Most detainees were TURNED OVER to the U.S. under a dubious bounty system. Apparently the CIA and the Military tried to "buy" victory in the war on terror by paying out huge sums of money to poor Afghans and Pakistanis for turning in supposed Al Qaeda....
The whole thing is corrupt, unfair, unjust, A DISASTER.. Only ONE PERSON has been charged and convicted under the "system" - David Hicks - who got a whopping 9 months detention in Australia!!! The professor said that the best thing that could happen to the GITMO prisoners, from their point of view, is to be tried and convicted like David Hicks!!! And presumably released from GITMO and sent home.......
CODE PINK MEETS WITH THE WASHINGTON TIMES EDITORS.... strange company..LOL
Kieth O. on the alleged rape of a Halliburton employee by her co-workers:
Thanks for watching everyone! I am exhausted but will weigh in more tomorrow...............
A couple of things and then I'm out for the night.
If you're a hairy guy, take a look at the picture of Lindh. He's got duct tape across his hairy chest, across his hairy arms, across his hairy head and across the ankes (an assumption.)
Now, I'm not an experienced torturer, nor have I slept at a Holiday Inn, but I have had bandaids placed on knees, elbows, etc and I can tell you the little tiny hairs catch on the sticky bandaid and it hurts like heck coming off.
Think pulling that much duct-tape off him isn't torture too?
Well, what about his position, strapped to a stretcher on a freezing floor tied up like that for two days. How many of you can sleep through a half hour without rolling over? And how many can do it for two days.
I hate to be crass...but how did he urinate if he had to? Of course he was dehydrated, so that eliminated the urge part of the time, but urination is a natural part of our body's metabolism and I imagine he had to 'go' at least once.
Now, of course someone might argue that those things are not deadly. However, that's not true. He was unable to move, in a freezer, with frostbite when they finally pulled him out. He could have died just from not moving and getting a blood clot. He could have frozen to death. He could have sufficated as well.
But with regards to the whole thread header above, it's not just about torture, it's not just about JWL, and it's not just about the lies. It's about the coverups. The layers upon layers of crimes that happened and then the additional layers of people who created more lies and coverups to protect others from jail.
I believe those words are obstruction of justice, conspiracy to commit a crime and to hide a crime, and breaking the rule of law in this land. The other words are WAR CRIMES. And the last word should be IMPEACH!
Karen, you did great!!! Can't wait to hear more tomorrow.
zzzzzzz time now.
Sparrow
When I heard the Trade Center has been taken down and the Pentagon attacked, I thought, "Who are we going to bomb?" When I heard detainees were being brought from Afghanistan to Guantanamo, I wondered why an offshore prison was going to be used. I was shocked to hear the detainees were transported with duct tape and did wonder how they could urinate. Then I heard about the little chicken coop cages they were put in. I also knew that many Americans wouldn't care, as their kneejerk nationalism (sometimes mistaken for patriotism) and racism would soon kick in. At that time, any questions were deemed treason and the minute that happened, we were already headed toward fascism (which was also something that was taboo to say, at the time).
I have a few other comments, after a long work day.
WHY IN THE HELL haven't we ratified Kyoto? Rudd has now done it for Australia and that's part of how he won the election, with the environment and global warming being a big part of his platform. When an American official was asked if we seemed isolated in Bali, he said, "Turkey hasn't ratified it either." We are the ONLY country in the developed world like this.
And we TORTURE!! And we're PROUD OF IT! (I don't mean we here at DCP or in the progressive blogosphere).
And while I'm on this rant, WHY did Bush twice veto the Children's Health Bill? Doesn't he know that without early intervention, kids with health and learning problems are at much higher risk for later-in-life auto accidents, domestic violence, drug abuse, prison sentences? How in the world is that going to save money?
Of course, he doesn't care - "we'll all be dead then," as he once said.
Happy Birthday, Jessalyn - it was a pleasure meeting you in Chicago.
Chuck, if you're around, you probably know Ike Turner died. Click on my name for a story about it, and in the first comment, Kayakbiker put links to a couple of good Ike & Tina videos, but said not to be distracted too much by her legs.
CIA Torture Plane Wrecks .. and it's carrying cocaine
Just like back in Iran Contra days
more
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/12/12/19210/608/933/420107
Well - that's mine and kangaroos houses filled overflowing but we've got friends with open doors too.
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Plenty of them
nmp - does this mean that some of the *suicides* of young military will now actually be investigated? Or does this too, simply get set aside by both sides of government as being "off the table".
There are some parents right now nodding their heads with the knowledge that they were right all along.
Woz
I have really mixed feelings about what could happen. I see many encouraging things and then some people are so intractable and blind, set in their ways, afraid to open their eyes and ears and see what is really going on.
new thread
Destruction of evidence, yet another infringement on our rights by the gov't. Add it to the ever-growing list of violations:
They violate the 1st Amendment by opening mail, caging demonstrators and banning books like America Deceived (book) from Amazon.
They violate the 2nd Amendment by confiscating guns during Katrina.
They violate the 4th Amendment by conducting warrant-less wiretaps.
They violate the 5th and 6th Amendment by suspending habeas corpus.
They violate the 8th Amendment by torturing.
They violate the entire Constitution by starting 2 illegal wars based on lies and on behalf of a foriegn gov't.
Support Dr. Ron Paul and save this great country.