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Democracy in Action: Open Thread version
[Editor's note: This entry should not cause mudslinging, name-calling, impassioned arguing about who is a numbnut, or anything remotely related to infantile behaviors. We are here for democracy, not argument-winning. Thank you].
So last night I watched the Hillary-Barack lovefest and I was happy.
And happy is not a word I use often, lately. Times being what they are and all, I really have to think about the things that I do feel happy about.
Kittens. Godiva hot chocolate. My two friends who are in love, at ages 51 and 44 respectively and at last.
But last night, I was happy because I saw and heard the choices the American people have. And those choices are getting clearer and the lights are coming on.
Illumination always makes me happy. Without all the noise (and ignoring Wolfie), the two Democratic candidates got to elaborate on their views and demonstrate their respective styles, as did the Republican front runners the evening before. I analyzed the movement and I saw what I think we need to be paying attention to.
In terms of content, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are not that dissimilar, and now that we, the people, have made our concerns ever-so-much clearer, they are listening to the will of the voters and not so much to the will of the consultants. I hope this trend continues and the policies evolve to include some rational ideas about how we can get through this mess, take care of people, and end this war nonsense.
But in terms of style, OH, so different! Let's go to the videotape:
Obama gestures close to his body, in movements that connect and bridge to others. His head floats above it all, nodding and looking around with an open focus.
Clinton opens by advancing her case, with gestures that lay out the agenda, her focus is softer than it often is, but she gets into some long, repetitive phrases. She spends time laying out her policies, stating the facts, and she is quite serious.
Obama is relating to her, opening up to her. She is closed off to him for much of the debate.
Clinton presses forward with her proposals. Obama is a comprehensive thinker and we can see him considering. She has already made up her mind.
Hillary comes across as competent and a deal-maker. Her hand gestures in a palm-down, elbow-bent tamping down movement as if she is putting down any other suggestions.
Barack is laying it all out reasonably. He explains, he weighs options, he references his own experiences and presents the pathways to his conclusions.
Hillary operates within highly defined space, drawing boundaries around the ideas. When she speaks of her own experiences, she places them as if on a table or desk in front of her, asking us to look at them.
Obama fluctuates between light, quick, short moments of gesture and strong determined focused pauses. Clinton stays on course, steadily pushing forward.
Hillary has more core strength; Obama has more fluidity and this is the good news and the bad news about each. Will voters see her core strength as decisive and powerful or as unwilling to listen well? Will voters see his fluidity as versatility and open-mindedness or as weakness?
She operates and pushes through, he presents and prioritizes. Both of them share and communicate well but her style is to bring the message in by bringing her hands together as she makes a point, while he opens up more often than not, showing his hands expressively, and perhaps a little vulnerably, but with a sense of WYSIWYG.
She is more private in her decision-making and his reference to her operating behind closed doors makes perfect sense. He reveals his thinking process more readily and that allows her to point out that he has not been in the decision-making spotlight long.
She gestures with a strong impact at the end; his finger-pointing hand gestures have a lilt in the middle and end with a quick emphasis, giving him a different kind of rhythm--revealing his ability to roll through ideas as compared with her clear punctuation.
It was interesting that BOTH of them were far less comfortable talking about Iraq. Both stumbled more, and had lower postural investment in what they were saying. Until Barack Obama made his statement on "no permanent bases", which was full and highly invested, he was not any better than she was in terms of body language.
One reporter asked me about the look Obama gave Clinton when she laughed at the question about what she would do with Bill; apparently the newsroom found her laugh startling, but his look even more so. I thought he stayed open and relaxed throughout her discourse, and he was certainly gracious about her taking so much time to spin explain her plans.
I was far more startled by the relaxed camaraderie they showed each other at the end, but I was also glad to see it. Democracy requires that we take a long look at the leaders who will be making such important decisions and guiding us through what promises to be a major struggle. Although I cannot say who "won" the debate, what made me most contented was that we saw an honest exchange of tough stuff, and we saw the style each uses to think through those decisions.
Each of us can bring our own yearnings and concerns to the choices before us, and each of us can care deeply about the type of person we want to see in the role of leader of the free world. These are the Democratic choices, but I also want to discuss the Republican front-runners' styles. The more we know and understand, and the more we share what we know, the better those choices will be, and the closer we will come to true democracy in action.
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Is there a link to a video now? I couldn't watch it.
I will say it... (I have to)
Obama, Edwards, and Billary have not presented a single-payer universal healthcare plan. The three from what I can tell and from people I've asked were quite similar.
But I see a huge problem in that the private health insurance industry can jack up the prices. The government will determine if you qualify for assistance. And what happens if you have no money to pay for the premiums but the government says you should have because you earn over x amount per year.
sparrow
Not only is that a problem, but also the issue of people the private sector simply will not insure at any price (including Nolie and me). How will the government decide who is such "uninsurable" person?
Thanks for keeping up the fight!
Ummm Clinton and Obams are #1 and #2 in big pharma payola.
It is going to be a problem.
Things that make you go...'Hmmmmm.'
House GOP Group May Be Fraud Victim
8 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — The House Republicans' campaign arm may be a victim of fraud by a former employee, and it has asked law enforcement officials to investigate "irregularities in our financial audit process."
The National Republican Congressional Committee, which recruits candidates and raises money for House elections, said in a statement Friday that it learned of the irregularities earlier this week.
"Since these irregularities may include fraud, we have notified the appropriate law enforcement authorities," said Rep. Tom Cole of Oklahoma, chairman of the committee.
"We are aggressively and thoroughly investigating the matter and, while we determine the details, we have terminated our relationship with a former employee who was engaged as an outside vendor," Cole said.
The NRCC provided no further details, but GOP staffers said the FBI and the Federal Election Commission have been contacted.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j20FKzVG_On1ptRq1KCj2prbV2IAD8UHNHBG1
An Australian point of view of the American presidential primaries from Tracee Hutchison.
Debating the politics of race and gender
Tracee Hutchison
February 2, 2008
I'VE been having a recurring conversation with a friend about the US elections, especially now that things are really hotting up for the Super Tuesday round of primaries and race versus gender is increasingly dominating manoeuvring.
He is of the view, and a firm one it is too, that there is no way America will put a black man in the White House. I, on the other hand, can't see the self-proclaimed leaders of the free world electing a female commander-in-chief.
My friend is an Aboriginal man, and I, as my accompanying picture attests, am a fair-skinned Anglo-Australian woman.
No matter how many times we talk it and walk it, there is no way for either of us to know the truth that the other holds as self-evident: his as an indigenous man born into an era that considered him part of the Flora and Fauna Act, and mine as a woman in a country where mateship is the dominant currency.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/debating-the-politics-of-race-and-gender/2008/02/01/1201801032995.html
I must say that there is no love-fest from my point of view. Stopping Hillary was to me essential to maintain our democracy and to breathe some life into the weak, spineless, messageless and failing Democratic party.
Here in Michigan, the Dem party Big-Wigs (in Washington and Lansing) are fighting, greedily, for position in the two Congressional districts which the Democrats have finally decided to challenge the incumbent Republicans - the 7th congressional and the 11th. MONEY will come into these two races like a gusher - a tidal flood. It is frankly appalling, embarrassing and sad.
IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY AND IMAGE - nothing about issues or doing what is right...
We DO NOT have a democracy but a plutocracy.
Ralph,
Who is running in the 7th and the 11? (Don't forget the 9th district has a money guy running too.)
It seems the Michigan House Dems are now trying to run for the DC office--either timing out or deciding to not run for Governor since the situation in MI is so bad.
The Democratic Party Pooh Bahs hath spoken and decided:
7Th Congressional: Machievellian, money-raiser, Republican lite - MARK SCHAUER to go against Neanderthal Republican Tim Walberg
11th: Super-Insider-StateLotteryCommissioner GARY PETERS to go against Knollenberg.
The Democrats could have gone (or at least allowed to try to win in the primary) THE TWO Democratic candidates in these C-districts who did so well in 2006 against the incumbent Republicans. Those two Democrats were:
Sharon Renier
Nancy Skinner
But now that victory is at least conceivable/possible, the Big Boys have moved in and dumped the hard-working, risk-taking pioneers in these districts for their chosen insiders.
Now it is all about the money - and the fund-raising orgy has begun.
My rant:
Nasa will broadcast the song, Across the Universe, through the transmitters of its deep space communications network on Monday - the 40th anniversary of its recording at London's Abbey Road studios.
The music will be converted into digital data and sent on a 431 light year-journey towards Polaris, the North Star, in a stunt that also commemorates the space agency's 50th anniversary.
February 4 has also been declared Across the Universe Day by Beatles fans across the world, who are urged to play their own recording of the song at the same time as Nasa begins its own broadcast, 7pm in the US, midnight in the UK and 1am Tuesday in Spain.
"I see that this is the beginning of the new age in which we will communicate with billions of planets across the universe," said Yoko Ono, Lennon's widow, who has given her backing to the project.
story
Here is the original version, with space imagery, one of several Beatles versions. Fiona Apple's version is nice, and Rufus Wainwright has a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H71Fv3PcQQY&feature=related" >beautiful version but he has disabled embedding. Then there is the movie version which I wrote about after seeing it in the theater and liked enough to recommend renting.
(tomorrow also at http://www.silencedmajority.blogs.com)
Rufus Wainwright version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H71Fv3PcQQY&feature=related
(I have to go fix that .. sorry)
Ralph,
You're right. Those were the people I meant too. Yes, the powers that be are pushing Peters (and smearing Skinner across the internet) and they are pushing Schaurer. (I had my district numbers wrong.)
Reneir and Skinner did quite well last year, despite the MDP and DLC or DCCC whoever it is, who didn't help them at all.
DFA has a vote up to get some money to some progressives. Vote for Skinner there. Maybe you can help her out that way.
In the meantime, at swing the state, Michigan liberal, DU, Kos and other online communities, Peter's supporters are out swiftboating Skinner. If you go to those sites, maybe try to spread good things about her/them instead.
Personally, I would rather have a root canal done without anesthesia than vote for Peters or Schaurer!
Here is what my uncle says:
now they want to give Blackwater the contract to collect intelligence in Iraq...by all means try to get a copy of the book "Free Lunch" about all the corporate welfare.....the big money says ":get government out of our way" and turn right around and get laws to give them all kinds of perks and outright grabs of money
--- Maybe more Republicans ought to read "Free Lunch" - it's all about the money. I heard an interview with the author on NPR. Something like this is radicalizing for a former Republican.
If you haven't seen this yet, you need to.
www.dipdive.com
or
www.yeswecansong.com
If it doesn't bring tears to your eyes...
It did, V. It did.
Move On endorses Obama:
LOS ANGELES (AFP) — The powerful leftist Internet-based group MoveOn.org, which counts some 3.2 million members, on Friday endorsed Barack Obama for the Democratic presidential nomination.
"Our members' endorsement of Senator Obama is a clear call for a new America at this critical moment in history," said MoveOn director Eli Pariser after 70 percent of members backed Obama over 30 percent for Hillary Clinton.
"Seven years of the disastrous policies of the (President George W.) Bush administration have left the country desperate for change," Pariser said.
"The enormity of the challenges require someone who knows how to inspire millions to get involved to change the direction of our country, and someone who will be willing to change business as usual in Washington. Senator Barack Obama has proved he can and will be that president."
MoveOn, known for its pioneering ability to mobilize voters over the Internet particularly against the Iraq war, said it has 1.7 million members in the 22 states which vote on Super Tuesday, February 5, in primaries to choose the Democratic candidate.
The endorsement came as Obama Friday argued that he has a better chance than New York Senator Clinton of beating the Republican nominee, especially if it is Senator John McCain, in the November 5 presidential elections.
Kerry On Big Oil’s Record Profits, Republican Refusal to Roll Back Special Interest Giveaways
Washington, DC — Sen. John Kerry made the following statement today as ExxonMobil, BP, Shell, ChevronTexaco and ConocoPhillips released their annual profits:
“Big Oil has raked in profits of over half a trillion dollars since George Bush took office, $40 billion for ExxonMobil alone this quarter, and Americans have been stuck with record gas prices, dependence on foreign oil, and global climate change that gets more serious by the day. Even George Bush wants to end some of the Washington giveaways to these companies, but the Republicans in Congress refuse to side with those of us who have been fighting for years to roll back Big Oil’s tax breaks and invest instead in a Manhattan Project for clean, affordable renewable fuels and efficiency. It is long past time for Washington to change and put the national interest ahead of the special interests.”
(from his people)
By the way, my son did see him yesterday and took pictures and I'm nagging him to write something but he's gone for caucus training and then to a wedding.
My, My, My, Georgie seems like Germany is telling you where to shove it.
Germany: US Demand To Increase Afghanistan Deployment "Impertinent"
Germany rejects US demand to increase Afghan deployment
By Tony Paterson in Berlin
Saturday, 2 February 2008
A bitter diplomatic row between Germany and the United States deepened yesterday after Berlin flatly rejected demands from Washington that it deploy troops in war-torn southern Afghanistan and angrily dismissed the request as "impertinent" and a "fantastic cheek".
Germany currently has some 3,200 soldiers stationed in comparatively tranquil northern Afghanistan and the capital Kabul as part of the current Nato peacekeeping mission. It has been urged to deploy troops in the south before but has consistently refused. Yesterday however, it became clear that Washington had stepped up pressure on Berlin to commit troops to the south.
The move followed increased Taliban attacks and threats from Canada that it would withdraw its Afghanistan contingent completely unless more Nato troops were sent south. Canada has lost 77 combat troops in the region.
Two US non-governmental studies released this week warned that Afghanistan could once again become a failed state and terrorist haven.
Details of what was described as an "unusually stern" letter written by Robert Gates, the US Defence Secretary, to Franz Josef Jung, his German counterpart, were leaked to the Süddeutsche Zeitung newspaper yesterday.
The letter described Germany's performance as "disappointing" and asked it to consider a new Afghanistan mandate which would enable its paratroopers and helicopter units to be sent to the south of the country. It said the US wanted German soldiers to help replace an American contingent of 2,200 troops which is to be withdrawn this autumn.
Germany's response was a mixture of outrage and surprise. Initial comments leaked from an unnamed defence ministry source described the Gates' letter as "impertinent", and as a "fantastic cheek". One official accused Mr Gates of trying to inflict "psychological torture" on Germany.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/europe/germany-rejects-us-demand-to-increase-afghan-deployment-777239.html
V--great video. Also, read Kid Oakland at Daily Kos.
Both messages are good.
Though I find myself teetering between action and inaction. After all, in 2004, the same message of hope and change was there too--until it got stolen. I can not decide if I can risk involvement again--the calls, the door to door, the inner city GOTV (with the drug dealers and stalkers following me!).
JK and JRE expressed hope and help the same way that Obama does. But clearly, two good men (or three anyways) is not enough to beat an infrastructure bent on election fraud and suppression.
I don't know. Hope was there in 04, but disappeared literally in a few hours time. I just am not feeling like my actions will matter in 08. They didn't in 04.
Wow good for you Snipes, you beat the system.
Wesley Snipes Acquitted Of Tax Fraud, Still Faces Misdemeanor Charges
Wow good for you Snipes, you beat the system.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/01/wesley-snipes-acquited-of_n_84534.html
sparrow said
sparrow - it mattered then. It matters now. No president will repair in a year or 4 what has been done in the last 20 or more regarding corruption and the money infiltration into governments.
I believe that Obama is the one to beat McCain. The Republican party is on about giving contracts for Intelligence to Blackwater - the greatest nest of vipers in the Iraq war. Abu Graib photos were sickening? That's nothing to the freedoms that will be given out by the war-monger himself - McCain. He imagines himself King. And he's already way too old to be president. He's boring. He competes well with Bush for being boring.
Obama's message on peace and diplomacy is what will gel with Americans who are tired of the cost of war - physically, emotionally, personally, financially, environmentally. We DO NOT need another 4 years of hell.
Obama can't give you health care without fixing the economy and bringing the daily exporting of money, back home where it's needed. It will not happen in a few weeks. It needs hard work and sacrifice by everyone. NO MORE free rides for the corporate greedy.
Change can, and will, happen fast with Obama because he has the weight of the people and the determination of the people behind him. But patience is necessary too. What everyone needs to do is to vote out ALL the obstructionists at the following elections. People will be prepared for his kind of "fight for country". Not McCain's. War with Iran is inevitable with McCain as president.
You can watch a rerun of the debate now
Actually that's the wrong link or a preview. But it is at cnn.com
Snipes did not beat the system. He had a damn good defense. The people handling his money were responsible and they are now in jail.
He still will have to pay out or they will come after him again.
I believe that Obama is the one to beat McCain. The Republican party is on about giving contracts for Intelligence to Blackwater - the greatest nest of vipers in the Iraq war. Abu Graib photos were sickening? That's nothing to the freedoms that will be given out by the war-monger himself - McCain. He imagines himself King. And he's already way too old to be president. He's boring. He competes well with Bush for being boring
@@@@@@@@@@
McCain has three big problems (at least):
1) he is old (Rush Limbaugh and many others are reminding people of this
2) he is not liked by the rightwing the Republican party
3) he is associated, rather closely with George Bush and the war. I have many pictures of McCain with Dubya
If the Dems are smart they will make believe that they are running against George Bush, the Republican party in 2008 and Bush's policies (as Cheney and Bush really ran against Clinton in 2000).
From The Sunday Times
February 3, 2008
Simon Jenkins
Fall back, men, Afghanistan is a nasty war we can never win
Britain’s commanders ignored every warning that the Taliban were the toughest fighters on earth
The American secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, flies to Britain this week to meet a crisis entirely of London and Washington’s creation. They have no strategy for the continuing occupation of Afghanistan. They are hanging on for dear life and praying for something to turn up. Britain is repeating the experience of Gordon in Khartoum, of the Dardanelles, Singapore and Crete, of politicians who no longer read history expecting others to die for their dreams of glory.
Every independent report on the Nato-led operation in Afghanistan cries the same message: watch out, disaster beckons. Last week America’s Afghanistan Study Group, led by generals and diplomats of impeccable credentials, reported on “a weakening international resolve and a growing lack of confidence”. An Atlantic Council report was more curt: “Make no mistake, Nato is not winning in Afghanistan.” The country was in imminent danger of becoming a failed state.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/simon_jenkins/article3295340.ece
Ralpheh
Never underestimate McCain.
McCain has embraced the Christian Right, and there will be a huge GOTV effort for him in the Korean and Vietnamese McCarthyist communities.
If you think two special interest ethnic communities can't do squat, think again - they've gone against the powerful unions, and crushed the unions. In a BLUE STATE (California).
From The Sunday Times
February 3, 2008
Andrew Sullivan
Don’t screw up, Democrats, Barack Obama is your man
There comes a point in all primary campaigns when the ideological furore dies down a little, when the personality clashes recede, when the warring factions pause and the voters in each party ask themselves a simple question: who on earth can win this thing in November?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/andrew_sullivan/article3294433.ece
Please politely email Obama to ask for single-payer healthcare.
my.barackobama.com/page/s/mypolicy
More on Obama's health plan
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/2/193115/3461/666/445807
Also video of Obama speech by William of the Black Eyed Peas
http://www.yeswecansong.com
Ethel Kennedy statement:
Over these past few years, I’ve watched Senator Obama inspire Americans from all walks of life to believe in real change and a new sense of hope and possibility. He’s a magnetic force, drawing the nation together for the common good and galvanizing us all to help shape our country’s future. Barack is so like Bobby, who struggled for the rights of the poor in the Mississippi Delta and Appalachia, traveled to California to stand in solidarity with Cesar Chavez and farm workers, and fought to end another war that cost so many lives. Today, we crave a leader with vision who can help us regain our lost humanity and rekindle our inherent generosity. With courage, caring, and charisma, Senator Obama is leading us toward a kinder, gentler world. Senator Obama’s candidacy sends out ‘ripples of hope’ that can build a ‘current which can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.’ I am proud to support Barack Obama, and look forward to him leading this country toward a brighter, more hopeful future.
http://www.silencedmajority.blogs.com
(image from medaloffreedom.com)
Just added this .. I feel like it's a commercial .. oh well
If you liked the "Yes, we can" you can download it to mp3 or ringer now.
http://www.yeswecanringtone.com/
And they wonder why we cry foul about nuclear energy waste disposal! Thanks for this NASA.
US spy satellite debris may hit Australia
Winston Tan
February 3, 2008
AN AMERICAN spy satellite that is due to fall out of the sky within weeks has an orbit plane that takes it through Australian skies.
US officials said they had no control over the satellite, which is the size of a small bus, and had no idea where any debris might land.
The Federal Government agency Emergency Management Australia said it had a number of contingency plans in place if the craft, which contains dangerous materials, failed to fully burn on re-entry and hit Australia.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/us-spy-satellite-debris-may-hit-australia/2008/02/02/1201801098875.html
Obama Talks About Guns and God in Idaho
"I've been going to the same church for 20 years, praising Jesus. We've heard the usual sort of smear campaigns. I don't know if they've trickled up to Iowa .. Idaho. I know they were in Iowa. They send out these e-mails saying, `You know Obama, he's a Muslim and he doesn't pledge allegiance to the flag. Don't try to just insult not just me but people of the Islamic faith by playing on people's fears. I know who I am. And then there are people who say, `Well, he doesn't believe in the Second Amendment,' even though I come from a state — we've got a lot of hunters in downstate Illinois. And I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." (He does support gun control)
If you need negative reinforcement (removal of pain) rather than positive reinforcement (reception of pleasure), this is a reminder of why we need to keep fighting.
Another deterrent - we don't want President McCain.
Bush is a lame duck and is leaving.
1. McCain is too old.
2. He has an anger problem.
3. He is a warhawk.
4. It's like having Goldwater back
.. or something.
This whole Kennedy thing bothers me. It is just creepy.
I know why people keep comparing Obama to JFK and RFK.... But... Ummm. Both of those men were murdered in public, for 1.
And, for 2... I just don't think Obama is a JFK and he definately ain't RFK.
The only problem I see with rebuilding Camalot, is Camalot never actually existed.
I agree about the assassination part, Cristy. Many of the African-American women I know support Obama, but those who do not, universally state their fears of his safety. They like HIM, but they do not trust the country. They want Hillary because she is tough.
But the Camelot part, I have to say is mightily compelling. I remember JFK and Bobby as men of high-minded HOPE. Camelot never existed, as you point out; but it was and is a vision of what could be.
No one with power has ever been able to reject MORE power. In the story behind Camelot, Arthur struggles with whether or not his laws must supercede his heart. His heart wants mercy, but his heart also wants things to go his way. And that is his heroic moment, when he realizes that if he does not obey the laws, it does not matter whether he gets his way: in the end, all will be chaos.
JFK loved that story, even as he betrayed it many times. And Obama would too, no doubt. But the story itself can carry so much that is good, just by being invoked.
The story of Jesus is another one that can be referenced, but unless it is invoked in its true meaningfulness, it does not give mankind wings. It is a simple story, really, for people who need simple stories. What is so sad is that despite all the soaring heart-filled tales we tell ourselves over and over, we so often forget the lessons.
Sparrow wrote about how frightened she is to believe in the vision. We have all been here before, have we not? And most of us dared to hope for change, for peace, for justice. Those hopes were dashed about as cruelly as they can be--by betrayal and self-serving men of profit.
I cannot advise anyone here on who or what to believe, but I do know this: democracy is based on participation and information. Our current government has failed to provide support for either and has, in the case of information, destroyed much of it. We the people must speak, loudly and often, and we must continue to dare to hope, when we can, as we can, that our voices MATTER.
What I am scared of is Obama being elevated to some Iconic standard that a single flaw can crack that 'vision' of him to those expecting him to be someone he is not.
Me too, I am afraid to believe in 'the vision', because I know that times of great hope also coincide with times of great desperation. I feel desperate, but not so much that I can pretend Obama is something he has not yet proven to be.
I do think he will be our nominee and I am glad. I have problems with him, but compared to republicans he smells like a chior boy. I think he will make a good president, but our system is so freaking corrupted he could just become another sell out. Speaking of sell outs...
I think the MSM is going to try to take Billary down. One simple reason. Coveted audiences. Obama is drawing in the young people like it's christmas, and the MSM are drooling thinking about hopping on his gravy train.
Camelot, the theory, is a great ideal, something to strive for. But we tend to forget the Kennedys were all mobbed up and their 'curse' began the day they turned on the mafia.
I guess comparing JFK to Obama just makes me tired. There is no Oz, no Never Never Land, no tooth fairy, and Camelot was never what it seemed to be.
I just want the things we make right to STAY right, and the wonderland we create to be REAL.
Oh, and the fact they were murdered for what they did... In some ways it is just distasteful to me to compare Obama to MARTYRS.
Comparing the living to the dead is always an unfair standard. Unfair to the living.
I don't think the Obama / Kennedy comparisons are direct. I think they are about "taking on the mantle" of the liberal cause. Read Ethel Kennedy's endorsement and you get the connection with labor / Chavez / Si Se Puede. Watch the Black Eyed Peas video and you get Yes We Can, which comes from an Obama speech (NH) and is an obvious link to the need for Hispanic voters (afraid to vote brown for black AND LA Mayor has endorsed HIllary AND United Farm Workers as well).
For the Republicans, they all want to "take on the mantle" of Reagan, ie the conservative cause, with conservative values, those being fiscal conservatism (which Bush has blown) and free markets (no problem there) and national defense (exceeded unspeakably but ineptly).
The liberal cause is more related to social justice. The conservative cause promotes dog-eat-dog so social justice is a side issue, with focus more on social conservatism (so-called family values, which is actually male ownership and control of women for breeding but they would never admit that). Slavery is a former conservative value, I think.
As for assassination, those people are being ridiculous.
Gore, Kerry and Obama could all lose and for the rest of their lives they may be stalked by Dominionists, Swift Boaters and White Powerists.
Any public figure has to be aware of safety from stalkers, nuts and paparazzi as well as terrorists. Whether political or entertainment "rock stars," they travel with entourages. Britney Spears needed a motorcade just to get to the mental ward.
You know, I think we should take frightened, scared, worried out of our vocabulary.
My friend Alan is a Quaker and has worked with homeless vets for decades. He just went to TWO Obama meetings yesterday and wrote me saying he thinks we CAN.
Granted we can't turn back the clock but just watch this and let's never let it happen again
(Bush 2000 on nationbuilding - it's short - he looks alot younger)
LEAVE BRITNEY ALOOOOOOOOOOOONE!!!!
Btw, check the art blog for Amy Winehouse update.. Its good. Very good.
Yeah I get why they are comparing the two, but most people don't really get a sense of indepth debate or context about the comparision.
All they hear is Obama = JFK, and RFK. I mean, that is what spurs this insepid talk of assasination.
He will rightfully assume the 'mantle' of their struggle, but that does not mean he is them. Or will act like them. Or be shot like them. Ect. Ect.
He talks a good game, but the iconic status he is obtaining is a very slipperly slope for someone not yet on the summit.
Obamas jaw fascinates me. When I watch him talk I always catch myself staring at his jaw. He has a perfect jaw line, I think I will paint him one day.
It is hard not to be mezmerized by him. In so many ways he is a 'perfect' candidate.
I will just finally be glad to call someone 'president' again without sneering or gagging.
Holy Crap. I just went and signed up with the Obama Campaign to Get Out The Vote. I must be crazy.
I can always paint later I guess.
Congrats Christy!
Here is another negative reinforcement (we want to avoid this) in addition to the positive (what we want to have):
a segment from "Jesus Camp" (documentary about Christian indoctrination of youth)
The adults perpetrating that abuse on children should be in jail. This is an affront to Jesus. God, how far they have taken that humble carpenter. Claim it's the will of Jesus - they can do anything. And we dare to criticise other cults. That's what this lot of non-christians are - a cult. An evil and dangerous one at that. When Bush showed up, I knew it was pure evil. The indoctrination of the future republican party. How sick is all that?
Woz
I have been criticized for attacking Christians, including on this blog. I meant people like this (who may mean well in their own minds, as they are more or less paranoid). This is indoctrination no less than a madrasa that would advocate radical acts, and in this documentary, they ADMIT that. They use it as part of their raison d'etre! (Sorry I can't produce French diacritical marks)
I know peace-loving, peace-making Christians and whether I agree with all of their theology or not, their intent is fine. There is a "peace church" down the street from my house (Church of the Brethren).
The people in this documentary are more cult-like. I had a friend indoctrinated into Scientology and that is another cult passing itself off as a religion, and yes I am critical of that.
What we did so far today:
I went to Christy's art blog and read about Amy Winehouse then wrote a little update, & noticed Kayakbiker had posted SuperBowl stuff - a punk group had recorded a song on a football field where the players wore yellow or orange suits like the Guantanamo detainees wear, with gas masks and the lyrics are antiwar. He then showed football-shaped pizza with green sauce, which comes from an Afghani restaurant in Mpls which we've eaten at.
That was to follow up my submission of a 1943 banned Donald Duck cartoon, where people work and are taxed in order to pay for war. It's amazing! I added some satirical photos of old people protesting who are too senile to know what they're protesting about (Photoshop, I presume). We aren't football fans, obviously. If any one likes Tom Petty, they will play at half time.
http://www.silencedmajority.blogs.com
NMP
Tom Petty's "Free Falling" says "she's a good girl... loves Jesus and America too"
Prime right-wing propaganda material.
NMP
You're not alone in that.
I have a reputation for saying things like it is, and for driving a hard bargain (you pointed that one out). That means a lot of things I say about Christians - especially the Jesus Camp variety and those NOTW decals - will rub many people wrong.
nmp said
And so do I. Many in my own family. Their intent is fine too. However, my sister was always seen as the truest christian of them all, by everyone other than me. When she began to indoctrinate all of us, I grieved for my loss. She was happy to hear my point of view. She welcomed it so that she could show me the error of my ways and pray for me to be saved/reborn.
Other dedicated christians in my family are totally different. Christians like those on the video wear blinkers. They cannot waver from their path because it is the right path. And these are the ones who can hate for all kinds of ridiculous and perverse reasons.
My sister didn't actually hate - she pitied them for their evil ways. And probably prayed for them to be covered in Jesus's blood to be saved. My uncle on the other hand, does as Jesus did - he holds out his hand to those who are rejected by many. The kind of christianity in this documentary has nothing to do with the teachings of christ.
These christians are extremist/fundamentalist and will go to war and kill innocent babies and dominate the world if they can. I find extremists in any religion - any religion - extremists have no tolerance for the rest of us. They are violent verbally, if not physically.
ditto ally
My son saw John Kerry at UW on Friday. John Kerry was a surrogate for Obama. Gabe was a surrogate for me, since I had to work. Kerry spoke for 30 minutes and took questions after. He said Kerry predicted a McCain win (for the nomination) and that Obama would be better able to compete with him, given his youth against McCain's relative age.
Kerry reminded the students that Bill Clinton, John F. Kennedy and Teddy Roosevelt were all younger than Obama (who is 46) when elected. He is older than Martin Luther King Jr. was when he gave his "I Have A Dream" speech and older than Thomas Jefferson when he wrote the Declaration of Independence. Kerry also said Obama has been a Legislator longer than Hillary Clinton and is in a position to unite America, turn a page of history and present a story of America that reaches beyond our shores.
During the Q/A period, Kerry spoke about Obama's talent for public speaking, to rally the public. He recounted his own experiences in the civil rights and environmental movements, and underlined the historical importance of Obama's run. "History gives you these very special moments sometimes," Kerry said. "What we do with those moments is up to us."
I took this footage this summer when I was at YearlyKos in Seattle. At the time, I wasn't sure he'd still be in the race by now. The Seattle Times and The Stranger have endorsed him, so the most conservative and most liberal papers. A friend went to two Obama Meet-Ups yesterday and emailed me, "Yes We Can!" A bit ago I was at the mall and Obama caucus ads were being played over the sound system in stores frequented by young voters. Caucus locations were available via text messaging.
Obama has had an office here since June. Clinton doesn't have one. Obama sent two different people to my door to get me out to caucus. Hillary had someone call me. Obama has a big grassroots following here and lots of small donors. Hillary has the both Senators and the head of the party (the "establishment".) Our Mayor supports Obama now, but had been sitting on the sidelines previously, hoping somehow Gore would run. The local head of the Edwards campaign has also shifted to Obama. Our woman Governor still has not made a choice.
The polls are shaping up to a draw in California. There were 13,000 in Boise yesterday (Idaho is said to be the "reddest" state in the union.) He filled a stadium in Minneapolis. It's happening all over. Every delegate counts. We'll see.
http://www.silencedmajority.blogs.com
I meant YearlyKos in Chicago not Seattle - can't correct it
Posted also at http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog&pop=1&ping=1
Maria Shriver showed up at the women's campaign rally in LA to support Obama today. Can't wait to hear how the gubonator reacts. Afterall, his wife is standing with someone trying to promote change and good things in America, and the gubonator is standing with the old-guy who wants a 100 year war because he's not going to be around to watch his own kid and grandkids die in it.
http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/silenced_majority_portal/2008/02/breaking-gratef.html
Grateful Dead Reuniting for Obama
streaming at 7:30 PM Pacific time
I just figured out how to send that to 80 people on FaceBook and over 1044 people on MySpace.
When I was at the mall I heard an Obama ad overhead while in a store frequented by young people. They could use their cell phone and text messaging to find out where to caucus.
Someone is a genius at marketing.
Paul Volcker (ex head of the Federal Reserve) endorsed Obama. That will carry weight with the economics crowd.
nmp,
Do these endorsements really carry weight? My God! Kerry had 99% of the endorsements out there, and yet when a bunch of crooks steal the election, apparently they are as powerless as the candidates and us!
woz
I find that "pity" to be very condescending. As in, "I am better than you because Jesus saved me."
I had precisely that kind of comment on my personal blog, when I talked about Benedict declaring gays to be enemies of world peace. I promptly deleted that comment - the only time ever that I deleted a blog comment.
Sparrow
I don't think the endorsements amount to a hill of beans in terms of the General Election, which is months away.
In terms of Super Tuesday and momentum, I think they may sway enough caucus and primary votes to make a difference.
It's all about attitude and image, unfortunately too close to who one would want to have a beer with.
When we get a final nominee and they are running with the predicted opponent McCain, then we will really have to worry about cheating and Diebold machines and all the rest all the more.
I think your faith in the whole process has been shaken and mine has too, but if new voters and the young can get inspired and stirred up, then they deserve a try. I hate to think of their efforts being shattered in the end.
They would be stuck with McCain, the old fogey. Presidents age in office. I saw a video of Bush in 2000 and he looked positively spring chickenish compared to the limping old feather-ruffled duck he is now. Imagine pasty sick-looking McCain in four or even eight years, having high blood pressure after getting up in Putin's face and so on (as Pat Buchanan says).
Not that old Pat wouldn't do the same thing if he had the chance.
Or any of them.
Sparrow
To think that Kerry also
- won 3 of 3 debates
- was taller
- had a much more smart and gorgeous wife
- more well travelled
- much better hair
- better coloring
- better accent and diction
- a couple of standard deviations positive for IQ
- more friends in Washington and abroad
- more and better endorsements
- drew bigger crowds and didn't screen them out
- told the truth much moreso
- made less faux pas
- much much more
- did not wear a box on his back
- did not have an alcohol and drug history
- did not go AWOL
- had a purple heart
- could fly a plane under the Golden Gate Bridge
- got good grades at all levels
- had daughters who didn't mess up all the time
- had an actual sense of humor, dry not cornball
- especially did not make fart jokes
- did not put catsup on everything
- did not go to bed at 10 PM
- did not go out the wrong doors when in foreign countries
- could ride a bike without mishaps, or at least less often
- could windsurf and play bass
- wrote a book on crime and terrorism and another on Vietnam
I could go on.
Everytime I start feeling good something happens:
http://www.hackingdemocracy.com/
Editor - I have attempted throughout my life to give a voice to the voiceless, hope to the hopeless, encouragement to the discouraged, and options to the cynical and complacent. From Northern Ireland to Sarajevo to Latin America, I have sung and marched, engaged in civil disobedience, visited war zones, and broken bread with those who had little bread to break.
Through all those years, I chose not to engage in party politics. Though I was asked many times to endorse candidates at every level, I was never comfortable doing so. At this time, however, changing that posture feels like the responsible thing to do. If anyone can navigate the contaminated waters of Washington, lift up the poor, and appeal to the rich to share their wealth, it is Sen. Barack Obama. If anyone can bring light to the darkened corners of this nation and restore our positive influence in world affairs, it is Barack Obama. If anyone can begin the process of healing and bring unity to a country that has been divided for too long, it is Barack Obama. It is time to begin a new journey.
JOAN BAEZ
Ally said
I couldn't agree more, Ally. I know that. I found it offensive to my friends and therefore, to me.
http://www.silencedmajority.blogs.com
Ally, Woz
I feel sorry for those extremists - no fun for them - everything that is enjoyable to the human body and mind is forbidden. Don't they know that any deities or even evolution would have favored our celebrating?! We are made for it!!
Joan Baez - the music, the lyrics, the compassion, the soul. Having been to the corners that she has journeyed, she would know better the person who would relate to the most people and the widest range of backgrounds and lifestyles.
I respect her choice and am heartened to have her along this time.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/3/23238/48095/261/449255
Check out these amazing slide shows of Delaware and California.
The technology has advanced alot just since the 2004 election.
nmp,
You said:
In 2004, there were LOTS of young voters who voted for Kerry. I met some of them in the inner city where I GOTV. I met one such person running, yes running, to the polling place because he thought his vote would make the difference. I met lots of people who ran to the polling station right at 8 am before work so that they would get heard.
Ok. So that was Ohio and there was no way Blackwell was going to allow every Democratic vote to count and they have Strickland now as well as a real S of S who has already started digging up the information on how Blackwell successfully hid, stole, and manipulated the results.
My point is that the other side doesn't care about fairness. That all kinds of young, old, blacks, whites, military, nonmilitary and so on had their rights stolen.
Ever notice how we never heard how the military voted? I did.
And I remember seeing different military blogs were soldiers in I. or A. described how they missed voting due to how the hierarchy gave them bad information and bad timing information. (And you don't think that the hierarchy had a sense of who was voting K and who was voting B?)
Yeh. So even though it does no good to keep bringing up 2004, I only bring it up because, to me the endorsements mean nothing, people-young, old, new, whatever--mean nothing UNLESS the media finally reports all fraud and suppression AND unless the media STFU about 'how close the election is...'
New day...new thread!