It's Official. Bush Lied To Start The Illegal Iraq War

Why, oh why is this information just coming out formally now?

So the little dictator could stay in power his entire term?

What the Heck?

P.S.

LP: Obama Meet Tonight WIth Hillary at Her Home in DC (They outfoxed the press corps.)

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=227408

Sure is quiet around here. Everyone must have campaign fatigue.

US military deaths in Iraq war at 4,092
AP, 2 hours, 58 minutes ago

Arabs shocked by Obama speech : Arab leaders have reacted with anger and disbelief to an intensely pro-Israeli speech delivered by Barack Obama, the US Democratic presumptive presidential nominee.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/93FE247B-452D-4022-8374-088D8704C1DE.htm

Most Historic Day for Whistleblowers: 112 Public Groups Unite!

112 Public Interest Organizations Support Swift Action to Restore Strong, Comprehensive Whistleblower Rights

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Most-Historic-Day-for-Whis-by-James-Murtagh-080605-797.html

Kangaroo
Obama has to win. He is running for president of America not the entire world. He's not going to please all of the people all of the time. I haven't read the speech but know both he and HIllary had to suck up to AIPAC. Even Howard Dean or especially Howard Dean had to do that. It's the name of the game in America.

I hate to admit it, but that is the facts.

If he don't suck up to the Jews, he will not be elected president. I would like to go on record saying I agree it seems wrong because it is wrong, but that is the way it is.

One day American Jews will finally stand up to Israeli Jews. But until then, Israel will have way too much influence in our elections.

At this point, Obama is being called all things, pro Israel, Anti Israel, Pro Hamas Anti Hamas. It is crazy and I have a feeling he will not let them corner him the way others do, but until he can offer real solutions from a position of power he has to pander.

look what people are doing on Hillary's site:

Receiving a letter from Senator Lieberman

I just received a letter from Senator Lieberman soliciting my support. The new group is "Citizens for McCain" and what it is for democrats and independents. They are welcoming Hillary supporters. We have to do what is right for America even though it may be against our party. I also went on McCain's blog and many Hillary supporters have joined. Barack's site was talking about all of the Hillary supporters on the McCain site. The support will continue to grow for McCain after Saturday. Remember Hillary is just suspending her campaign. Many things can happen before August.

From me:

HILLARY is meeting with OBAMA tonight - can't they stop this?!!

Lieberman launches grassroots organization {Citizens for -- McCAIN ??}

From CNN Associate Political Editor Rebecca Sinderbrand

WASHINGTON (CNN) — Sen. Joe Lieberman – who has taken on increasingly high-profile campaign roles on behalf of presumptive Republican nominee John McCain – announced Thursday that was launching and heading a new grassroots organization, "Citizens for McCain," with a direct appeal to Hillary Clinton’s disappointed supporters.

“The phones at the campaign headquarters have been ringing with disaffected Democrats calling to say they believe Senator McCain has the experience, judgment, and bipartisanship necessary to lead our country in these difficult times,” Lieberman wrote in a message sent to the Arizona senator’s supporters. “Many of these supporters are former supporters of Senator Clinton.”

Over the past few weeks, some supporters of Hillary Clinton – whose campaign announced Wednesday that she would be suspending her presidential run this weekend — have said that they would consider voting for McCain if she were not the Democratic nominee.

Lieberman highlighted McCain’s “very good working relationship with Senator Clinton” – which he said would continue in the future – and his comments praising her in a speech at a Louisiana campaign event Wednesday.

Read more: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/05/lieberm... /

Christy
There are the broad spectrum of Jews politically left to right in Israel and America - it is as polarized as anything else in this country.

Man I am getting emails from Hillary supporters I know who had disappeared - they are coming out of the closet - people who quit speaking to me, who disappeared. Some are hostile, some are nice and trying to build bridges.

Then there are a couple of strange arguments going on - about oil and about immigrants. One guy who is a Quaker has an email list that has two wingnuts on and one just called me a Communist and said Barack is the Socialist/Communist candidate who will give our country away. Then there is the woman I went to see Michael Moore with and she moved to California. Her wingnut stepson is saying he will buy a Humvee and hahaha to us all.

This country has alot of diversity and doesn't know how to handle it! All hell is breaking loose! The Democratic party is having a coup from within that is long-awaited and a bunch of other things are happening simultaneously with race, age and gender that needed to happen but it's not all going to be pretty.

The big zit is being popped though finally, I think!!

Lieberman is a sick man.

Now check this out
http://blog.pumapac.org/
It's very ironic because you know what "pumas" are?

Start by figuring out what "cougars" are.
(You won't find it on Wikipedia)

Hint: They are female.

It is crazy and I have a feeling he will not let them corner him the way others do, but until he can offer real solutions from a position of power he has to pander.

I hope so Cristy, they need a honest mediator,

Facing criticism, Obama modifies Jerusalem stance
Advertisements [?]Source: Reuters

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama amended his support for Israel's stance on Jerusalem on Thursday, saying Palestinians and Israelis had to negotiate the future of the holy city.

Palestinian leaders reacted with anger and dismay on Wednesday to Obama saying Jerusale

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN054767...

I emailed the Lieberman thing to a Hillary supporter in California who is nice (an older feminist) and she was shocked and called someone in Virginia who was also - sent it to her and they are very against this supporting of McCain & Lieberman by women - that would be so terrible.

My son emailed me from work & said the right thing:

Don't worry about Joe. No one listens to him.

So I'm going to go read a chapter of my very interesting Amy Tan book about people who get kidnapped in Burma and get up at 6 AM and put in another day and not worry about all of this.

Yes Obama will have to learn to slightly triangulate, like Bill Clinton was good at - but he will stay relatively honest, I hope.

I campaigned for Eugene McCarthy when I was a teen and he was the most honorable man. I felt horrible when RFK died (which was 40 years ago today) but before that, McCarthy was running against him and RFK was getting the momentum. It was a relatively bitter campaign and I learned that Democrats fight during primaries AND that even Eugene McCarthy had ONE speech for the farmers, ONE speech for the teachers, ONE speech for the businessmen etc. I thought .. "So this is politics."

& have never fully trusted a politician since but what choice do we have.. I feel now we have at least some choice! It makes me happy that Kerry & Kennedy support Obama.

Oh & I read that Robert Byrd is recovering! Hooray!!

One more comment - I have been studying these blog for a couple of months - Obama's is welcoming Hillary supporters - they are practically (the bloggers) doing crisis intervention. They are like a Welcome Wagon of Love, Hope and Change but the "Celestial Choirs" sarcasm affected some HRC supporters. They can freely post though.

On HRC blog it's a different story. NO "unity" posts - they are censored immediately. Believe me I have tried and I have been a donor, supporter and three-time watcher of Hillary in the remote past. I have actually been signed up to that site before Obama's when I was undecided. I donated to get into an event & I saw her in Boston, Chicago (YearlyKos) and here. They block me. Yet they allow plenty of posts encouraging support of Lieberman, Republicans and McCain. Guess people can vent but they are also organizing.

Please let the Kubler Ross Denial stage pass and some of the Anger change to Acceptance Bargaining and Resolution. I had Dean people spit on me before and also call me a zombie. One person slammed a door in my face and another (a man) cried like a baby (when Kerry won on Super Tuesday and I had been canvassing.) I didn't take it personal. Please let us get through this phase.

My fear is that Obama faces increasing odds in this race, and that "tribal" passions will likely prevail by the end of this campaign.

Only in America can you be demonstrably wrong on all the issues, and still become President. Dubya demonstrated the validity of this unhappy equation in 2004. I fear that we may see it play out again in 2008.

There was an interesting op-ed in the Times this week, describing how Israel has begun its own discussions with neighbors who the chickenhawks would have us ignore, if not invade. Perhaps the Israelis are much wiser than their alleged American defenders, like Lieberman?

Bush's machismo-fueled approach to the Middle East represents a dead end for all concerned. But it may take another four years, and with it, perhaps another ten thousand lives lost or ruined, before that message finally makes an impact on the hysterical segment of our electorate.

Actually NMP, if what you're reporting is accuate, that tells me that Hillary's plan remains one of undermining Obama in '08. There would be no reason for her blog to censor unity posts, while allowing the Lieberman posts, if Hillary seriously intended to support Obama.

I put nothing past this couple. And as negative as I've been about them - and I have been a harsh critic - my perceptions appear to be pretty much shared by a large number of activists and pundits.

"There are the broad spectrum of Jews politically left to right in Israel and America - it is as polarized as anything else in this country."

I don't disagree with that, however, it is the Pro-Israeli Jews that have infiltrated our politics and the balance is there in society, but in politics no dissent against Israel is allowed, ever, at any time, or else you must be Hitler, or just some other random antisemite.

The moderate Jewish voices get frozen out. That is what I mean about American Jews standing up to Israeli Jews. Not even I disagree they should be left unprotected, but they have to know we will not fund a military occupation and take sides in a civil war forever. American Jews are expected to be loyal to Israel first, as Americans first, none of us should tolerate it, both Jews and non gentiles alike. But it only changes when American Jews confront it.

If I as a non Jew try to say that then I am Hitler. If I try to suggest the Palestinians deserve mercy and their own country just as much as Jews do, then I must just hate Jews.

But if other Jews make the case, then we will be getting somewhere.

But so far.... Could you even imagine an American politician suggesting equal respect for both Israelis and Palestinians, and equal scorn as well? He would be run out of DC on a rail.

Not even Jimmy Carter himself would dare go that far. It is so sad and twisted it makes me ill. Any sign of sympathy for Palestinains makes you a terrorist lover, or means you support Hamas.

One of the things I am hoping for with Obama is that as moderate as he naturally is with the black/white thing, he will approach the Israeli/Palestinian conflict in the same way, attract the moderates while shunning the fringe.

It would be a good start. But honestly, the Israeli owned Jews, like Lieberman, they will do anything to stop that from happening.

It's been less than two days since he crossed the delegate threshold to become the Democratic presidential nominee and Sen. Barack Obama's mark on the party is already being felt.

On Good Morning America Thursday, ABC News' Chief Washington Correspondent George Stephanopoulos reported "the Democratic National Committee will no longer accept contributions from federal lobbyists, will no longer take contributions from PACs" in keeping with Obama's well-publicized policy.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/06/dnc-no-more-con.html

Wow. Is he a miracle worker or what?

NO JUSTICE
Marine acquitted in Haditha deaths
Dan Whitcomb, Reuters

A U.S. Marine officer was acquitted by a military jury on Wednesday on charges he tried to cover up the shooting deaths of two dozen unarmed Iraqi men, women and children at Haditha in 2005. In the first court-martial verdict from the high-profile case, Lt. Andrew Grayson was cleared at Camp Pendleton, California, after a five-day trial and less than half a day of deliberations by the jury...

Of the eight Marines originally charged by military authorities in December 2006, five have seen their cases dropped.

http://www.reuters.com/article/featuredCrisis/idUSN05281231

NMP said

Obama has to win. He is running for president of America not the entire world. He's not going to please all of the people all of the time. I haven't read the speech but know both he and HIllary had to suck up to AIPAC. Even Howard Dean or especially Howard Dean had to do that. It's the name of the game in America.

I thought that was it, but in my opinion, that is one of the things that needs URGENT CHANGE. Israel has been dictating to America and killing too many Lebanese and Palestinians, with too little excuse over the past few years. Israel and America both wouldn't sign on to the cluster bomb ban. After all, cluster bombs will be killing Lebanese children for years to come. That's how useful they are. Cluster bomb - the bomb that goes on killing.

I still support Obama - and would vote for him if I had a chance - but the passion he put into that part of his speech, killed a little of my passion for peace AND justice. You see, I want both.

Lieberman and McCain, they both make such a fitting couple. I don't quite "get' Lieberman, except I know he is sickening. But he and McCain seem to have the same smarmy stickiness phony sweetness to them and they both strike me as wimps and wanta-bes (AND SELL-OUTS).

I need to learn more, but my gut just tells me it's going to be okay. Obama won over Clinton, did he not?

O.K. You want to tell me that people are more loyal to Hillary than they are to the people of the United States, and to their own family and friends? They sound like complete nutjobs. And, based on percentages, how many people in our population are complete nutjobs as opposed to partial nutjobs? 5%? That move of "grassroots" is just nuts, and should turn off the right and the left. They need to GROW UP. How can anyone be more committed to a candidate than they are to their own country, given everything it was created to provide???

O.K. given the selfishness, even if they don't care about their friends or family, don't they care about their own interest? That smells Rovian to me to the HILT. Haven't they learned enough to know we cannot survive another four years of Republican rule? WTH?

As far as the Jew thing goes, I don't even claim to begin to know the deep and detailed facts. I have heard that the Jews (no offense to anyone here who is Jew, I don't mean ALL JEWS.) control the money in this world, at least that is what my ex-brother in law who, like his brother, is brilliant but equally as eccentric, told me. He told me the Jews control the money in the world through the "Federal Reserve" which is not federal, nor is it a reserve. Is this true? I know, oh my gosh, here I am on a blog and I'm being real enough to ask a QUESTION. What kind of blog is this anyhow? How we will look to all the other blogs?

Anyone I trust or care about has my email addy so if you can fill me in on some of the deeper knowledge I need to know about the Israeli situation, or steer me to data I would be much appreciative. Seems like I may be missing a whole block of data regarding AIPAC, and if it's true like some have said that you have to kiss up to the Jews or you won't become President, I want to know why. And how that all works.

NO WONDER THE NEOCONS HAVE MILKED THE EVANGELICALS ~ they not only will vote entirely based on a wedge issue, they will give money, and they will certainly support Israel above all else.

Ewwhh. Where is this all going? I want to know, so send me the info, folks.

And all you "elite" NON-elitests out there that think it is wrong to get on a blog and ask a question......*** you. This is not a popularity contest, it is a sharing and learning tool.

NMP,

Maybe I'm wrong, but I TRUST him. He's not stupid. As our First Lady said during Dubya's first campaign, "Politics is Politics".

I know that would turn you off, because you of all of us is a pacifest before all else, it's what drives you. Sometimes "Politics is Politics". Although I think he is a very sincere person deep down, if he thinks he has to yank a chain or two to be able to pull us out of this he can, IMO.

Personally, if he had to say that to get elected, just remember, he has a very good head on his shoulders, and true compassion for our present situation. He's got some DAMN good advisers, I will tell you that.

P.S. He's GONNA win. And when he does, he will do the RIGHT thing. He will not be weak, he could not appear to be weak in that speech to AIPAC. His entire demeanor wreaks of unity, of peace, of compromise.

The Hillary voters that defect aren't ones I'd be too worried about - they're the folks straight out of *Deliverance* - the attitudes at any rate. Uneducated, bigoted, criminal. Hmmm - sounds like they were republicans in the first place.

I think the collective imagination of Americans to *show the world* just how open-minded and all encompassing they are, will continue the momentum of the groundswell of Obama supporters from now until November.

I'm glad that Obama has softened his stance a little on the Jerusalem issue - that is not an American problem to solve - that is purely and simply an Israeli/Palestinian point of deepest conflict.

In terms of Obama's determination to prevent Iran from ever having nuclear weapons, I'm concerned that if he takes talking off the table as McSame/McBush has done, he will get no better result. As parents we are supposed to teach our children not to fight (assault) but to talk. Our leaders set such a brilliant example to our children don't they?

Look! My Gang's bigger 'n stronger 'n tougher with better bombs and bullets and stuff, than Your Gang can ever hope to be.

Yes - they set an excellent example of warmongering to my grandchildren. And when my grandchildren grow up and go to someone else's house and beat up a person because they don't want that person to beat them up at their home, they'll go to jail I guess.

And yet this is what the boss of the world told them they should do.

Without talk there will be no change. Without talk there can be no peace. Without talk there can be no clear-up of misunderstandings. Without talk there can be no compromise. Without talk there can be no cooperation. Without talk there can be no peace.

Woz,

Obama is a communicator.

The defectors are true nutjobs. There can't be that many of them that are that stupid.

Woz,

Some are of the opinion that they teach kids the thrill and addiction of killing and war through video games, at a young age.

The Federal Reserve thing is apparently coming up a lot, in various circles, likely for what I suspect are, at heart, astrological reasons. It's "chart" will be apparently very much in play over the next several years - although I've spent zero time studying it. The leading rumor about the FED is, as TSP mentioned, that it is not Federal, but instead a private bank...although I personally know nothing about this issue, and hence cannot speak to it. But I recently spent a week listening to colleagues speculate about the introduction a new currency - the Amero - and the radical devaluation of the dollar over the next couple of years. Given Americans' attachment to tradition (as in those Presidents on our currency), and our characteristic nativist best, I find the idea of a new currency being introduced any time soon pretty far fetched.

As to the Jewish angle, this seems to me to be a carryover of some of the ugly propaganda of the past. There's no money quite like WASP money.

"nativist bent", not best

Hey, look what else horribly bad policy can bring to a nation...

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/05/news/economy/jobs_outlook/index.htm?cnn=yes

The Airlines are getting killed, and grounding flights right and left.

I'm so glad that Dubya was able to "jaw-bone" the Saudis. It made such a big difference...(irony alert)...

Oh, and let's give a shout out to the Cheney Secret Energy Task Force.

Nice Work, F*ckface

Jobless rate jumped to 5.5 percent in May
Increase biggest rise since `86, payrolls cut by 49,000

updated 4 minutes ago
AP

WASHINGTON - The nation’s unemployment rate jumped to 5.5 percent in May — the biggest monthly rise since 1986 — as nervous employers cut 49,000 jobs.

The latest snapshot of business conditions showed a deeply troubled economy, with dwindling job opportunities in a time of continuing hardship in the housing, credit and financial sectors.

With employers worried about a sharp slowdown and their own prospects, they clamped down on hiring in May, said Friday’s report from the Labor Department. The unemployment rate soared from 5 percent in April to 5.5 percent in May. That was the biggest one-month jump in the rate since February 1986. The increase left the jobless rate at its highest since October 2004.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25001930/

Mr. McCain, will you continue with these policies? Hmmmmm?

You guys are getting business news - I am about to hop into the car so will get same (NPR) - bank failures, airline problems, housing foreclosures, gas prices etc.

Here is my son's latest email - we were discussing the Clinton thing - I love a young person's perspective (political science major):

She'll get even less (bloggers on her site) now that she's not in the race. McCain's supporters said they wouldn't vote for Bush in 2000. That never happens. It's the independents and moderate Republicans that will decide the election, along with turnout.

(what he calls "turnout" I also interpret as young people, minorities and "eggheads" like we urban denizens and metrosexuals, island dwellers, college town people and free thinkers)

Re: Unemployment Numbers

Given the HUGE amount of personal and mortgage debt that American workers hold, and the importance of consumer demand in keeping the overall economy afloat, the worst single thing that Corporate America could do at this point is begin laying off workers, in the hope of saving their own skins.

Either we hang together as a nation or watch this entire system implode.

Bingo Matthew.
Yours unruly has been soothsaying that there is an economic catastrophe abrewin just over the horizon, and methinketh that it's happening right before our very Oz.

Good Buys At Yellow Skid Row

I am getting emails from Hillary supporters who had quit speaking to me (we had not even argued - they just disappeared) and can't wait for her to speak to them and tell them to support Obama. I am getting questions which reflect what they have been "fed" and they have a steep learning curve. I am mostly responding with what is at stake with McCain because he is NOT a choice, if they are intelligent. I feel like a therapist but I am not sure what to say so I'm not saying much. Also, I don't think negativity works for some people. I do know that all the stuff Ralpheh posted was the LAST thing that made me support Obama and it actually turned me more TOWARD HIllary. I am sure I am not the only one. I have made my remarks that were snarky too but I really HATE negative campaigning.

yes - my son is still subsisting by temping and taking shifts of people at an old job when they go on vacation or want a day off and he has no health insurance

Quincy Jones will speak at UW commencement and I am kind of excited to hear what he has to say (he is a local)

I bought groceries the other day, I did not buy anything I don't normally buy, and what usually costs me 200 bucks was $442. It is a good thing I spend virtually zero dollars on gas, or else I would not be able to afford food, and my man works for a freaking oil company.

We are in serious trouble as a nation.

As for the Jews being 'in control of the worlds money', it is easy to see why they got that reputation since they were historically known as bankers and jewlers. That is the reason Hitler turned on them, not because they were Jews, but because they were very rich and controlled and commanded huge reservoirs of wealth. Had it been Muslims instead of Jews, then they would have been the target.

The point was the theft. The racisim was used to cover the true point. The larger the theft became, the more had to die to cover it up. You have to get rid of all the witnesses and rightful heirs, or what you stole will always be in dispute.

I know lots of people would disagree with me, but, the Jews were not targeted for their beliefs, or skin color or their politics, they were targeted for their wealth.

To me, past conspiracy theories on Jews controlling the earths money is far less interesting to me than the current money activities surrounding modern day Israel.

If you detatch from both sides and look at it in an overall manner, the reality is they have created a perpetual war zone, and that must mean perpetual war profits. SOMEONE is making lots and lots of money off of the killing, and if it stopped then so would their profit. Peace is literally a threat to their income.

Who could possibly be profiting off a constant war machine? Well, everyone of their politicians for one. The same way our congress all have their family money tied into oil, all of them are personally invested in 'victory' whatever the hell that means.

And speaking of our own politicians, many many of them almost certainly are personally profiting off of the war zone they help sustain.

How many members of our congress, Pentagon, SCOTUS and presidential admin. is literally making war profits off of the Israeli Palestinian conflict?

How many times have you EVER heard that question asked out loud? It is so taboo, that is the first time I ever remember saying it outloud myself.

And it is not just on this side either, how many other countries politicians are profiting off the other sides war machine?

In the end, it is really not even about Jew Vs. Palestinian. It is about money, all about money, all the time money money money. The money buys power. Those in power make it so they will make even more money, and the war never stops.

One day Palestinians and Israelis will both wake up/ grow up enough to realize both governments are aiding and abbetting each other, manipulating each other, so that perpetual war is the whole point. No war, no war profits. No war, the war mongers lose power.

If that is not the best damn reason I have ever heard to lay down your gun and refuse to fight, then I don't know that they can be convinced to quit killing each other.

In the meantime, if you want to clean up the war mongers in Israel, here is a good way to do it. Find out which of OUR politicians are making war profits off of the conflict, and then run them out of office in the most public way possible. It will cause a domino effect that will put both sides on notice that it will no longer be tolerated.

Stop the war profiteers, ONLY THEN can peace be attained in good faith. Only then will you find a true peace, and not a parody of it.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Israel_to_attack_Iran_unless_enrich_06062008.html

Israel to attack Iran unless enrichment stops: minister

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - An Israeli attack on Iranian nuclear sites looks "unavoidable" given the apparent failure of sanctions to deny Tehran technology with bomb-making potential, one of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's deputies said on Friday.

One of the Clinton supporters is now going to support Nader.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/us-issues-threat-to-iraqs-50bn-foreign-reserves-in-military-deal-841407.html

US Issues Threat to Iraq's $50,000,000,000 foreign reserves in Military deal

long-term deal

privatize the war - make it look ilke it's over but impossible to end it

keep 50 or more bases there - maybe forever

war profittering

perpetual war

excuse = ideology of one kind of another

The 1 lb bag of frozen mixed vegetables that I used to buy for $.99 less than 18 months ago is now selling for $1.39. That's a 40% increase in price in about 18 months.

Yall see the stock market today?

Holy. Crap.

"Are there lies?"

"I just don't think we can let these people back into polite society," Ex-czar Clarke:

'Someone should have to pay' for Bush's lies

The Senate Intelligence Committee has released the long-delayed final phase of its report on prewar intelligence, highlighting the Bush administration's misuse of that intelligence to lead us into war in Iraq. Richard Clarke, former counterterrorism advisor to both the Clinton and Bush administrations, appeared on Countdown with Keith Olbermann to discuss the implications of the report.
Clarke stated unequivocally that figures in the administration lied then and that Senator John McCain is not telling the truth now when he defends them. "Someone should have to pay in some way," Clarke emphasized. "I just don't think we can let these people back into polite society."
"The report does not use the word 'lie,' Olbermann began. "Are there lies?"
"There certainly are," Clarke replied. "This is a big report, but what it says is 'statements by the president were not substantiated by intelligence ... statements by the president were contradicted by available intelligence. In other words, they made things up ... that people in the intelligence community at the time knew were not true. ... To say that this is only something we could have known years later is just not true."
"What are we to make now of Senator McCain's ... remarkable claim that every intel assessment of the time was screaming 'WMD'?" asked Olbermann.
"Senator McCain's statements are contradicted by the facts, too," Clarke replied firmly. "He's also now justifying the intelligence statements of the president. ... We have the proof, four years too late, that those statements were flat out wrong."

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Richard_Clarke_Scott_McClellan_asked_for_0606.html

How are we suppossed to just forgive and forget with clinton supporters when they were too eager to do this, not just to Obama, but his wife...?

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/126883.html

I also used to trust Larry Johnson, until I started getting a feeling he was being dishonest about her.

Why are her supporters so willing to shamelessly lie to further her quest for power?

My God I am so glad she did not win. Larry Johnson is an ass.

McCain agents are flooding the internet with fake HRC posts about supporting McCain, changing to Independent and sending money to McCain. MySpace too. I have also gotten some negative Obama articles from former HRC people trying to get me to switch to Nader. Crazy.

Christy
I had never heard of Larry Johnson til a few days ago and am not impressed. This is from over at DKos.

So Larry's credibility is rapidly catching up to other intelligencia favorites like Wayne Madsen, Ahmed Chalibi, and Curveball. But this shouldn't come as a surprise.

Larry represents the true culture of the intelligence community that is horrible at intelligence, but excels at disinformation and propaganda. And they usually burn out from their own lies soon enough.

Perhaps if the Larry's of the world spent more time seeking and confirming intelligence instead of making it up, they wouldn't say things like this:

The Declining Terrorist Threat
By LARRY C. JOHNSON

July 10, 2001

Judging from news reports and the portrayal of villains in our popular entertainment, Americans are bedeviled by fantasies about terrorism. They seem to believe that terrorism is the greatest threat to the United States and that it is becoming more widespread and lethal. They are likely to think that the United States is the most popular target of terrorists. And they almost certainly have the impression that extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism.

None of these beliefs are based in fact...

What I don't know, Christy and NMP is that those people represent Hillary or if they are reprenting Repubs.

And speaking of food prices...um...why would anyone consider voting for mccain when he's basically said, "it's a global economy and we'll pay you the 10 cents we think you're worth..."

I often find Daily Kos a bit overwhelming so I rely on others to bring important diaries and stories to light from there. There's a group at dkos called the RescueRangers who rescue some truly worthy diaries and stories that get lost in the midst of others that have swamped them. I've bookmarked the DKosRescue site and visit there when I can.

This story is on the current *rescued* page. One Voice Can Change a Room

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/5/2119/59223

And for the Rescue page

http://www.dailykos.com/user/Diary%20Rescue

A poem from that page today:

O, yes,
I say it plain,
America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath--
America will be!

Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,
We, the people, must redeem
The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
The mountains and the endless plain--
All, all the stretch of these great green states--
And make America again!

from Let America be America Again (1938)
Langston Hughes [1902 - 67].

And my last from this rescue page is so poignant, so sad, and so damning of this disgusting war.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/1/17245/28018

Free Pickup Trucks for Rednecks Who Vote for Obama
http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/silenced_majority_portal/2008/06/free-trucks-for.html

http://www.baracklikeme.blogspot.com
By the way, Nyc is a vet and a Marine and a former Reagan Republican.

I didn't even know my son knew about Kubler Ross.

He says:

Very few of those people, who are now going through the early stages of grief (some are bargaining, some have moved onto guilt or anger, and some are already in depression and ready for acceptance), will feel the same way five months from now.

Christy et al

Re: Jews and Israel

Remember that they are separate entities. And remember that the government of Israel does not speak for the Jewish people as a whole.

And yes, the sad fact is that you must suck up to Israel to get elected in America. Moderate Jews ARE out of the picture, which is sad, because the VAST majority of Jews (at least the ones I know of) are moderate and seek peace between Israel and its neighbors.

If there is any solace in this, it's that Israel doesn't have a monopoly on foreign domination of American politics. The Saudis (through their oil money) and the South Koreans (through Reverend Moon) also manipulate American politics - or at least the right half of it.

Superdelegate says Clinton campaign used 'divisive tactics'

by Josh Margolin/The Star-Ledger

Friday June 06, 2008, 1:00 AM

A Democratic superdelegate from New Jersey said he is worried that unifying the party behind Barack Obama may be difficult because the Clinton camp "has engaged in some very divisive tactics and rhetoric it should not have."

Rep. Rob Andrews, who supported Hillary Clinton throughout the primary season, disclosed he received a phone call shortly before the April 22 Pennsylvania primary from a top member of Clinton's organization and that the caller explicitly discussed a strategy of winning Jewish voters by exploiting tensions between Jews and African-Americans.

"There have been signals coming out of the Clinton campaign that have racial overtones that indeed disturb me," Andrews said at his campaign headquarters in Cherry Hill Tuesday night after he lost his bid for the U.S. Senate nomination. "Frankly, I had a private conversation with a high-ranking person in the campaign ... that used a racial line of argument that I found very disconcerting. It was extremely disconcerting given the rank of this person. It was very disturbing."

- more -

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/06/superdelegate_says_clinton_cam.html

Well Obama put one of his main people in the DNC with Dean.
Clintons can't control that any more. & without PAC and special interest money, small donors (like me) will have to step up to the plate - in this economy. DNCC is not under same limitation. I figure I either register voters or make phone calls or send money or all of the above. In off years, just another war protester.

DNC and 50 state plan
http://www.truthout.org/article/obama-and-dean-team-up-recast-political-map

Good starting reference for planning now

Here's someone that's asking anyone to email them when you spot a troll. They'll check the link and add a nickel to the contribution pot. The money raised is going to the DNC.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/5/10563/81839

McCain thinks Putin is President of Germany
(click on my name for video)

This is fascinating - hit the mouse to see the different demographics before your eyes

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/04/us/politics/04margins_graphic.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1212852320-F5bGFXSNdT5ZJ4bXy/S7eg

Why watch Hillary on TV when I can be reading polls ..

In 2000, according to the national exit poll for the general election, Latinos made up just 7% of voters. The breakdown was as follows:

White 81%
Black 10%
Latino 7%
Asian 2%
Other 1%

In 2004, according to the national exit poll for the general election, Latinos made up 8% of voters. The breakdown was as follows:

White 77%
Black 11%
Latino 8%
Asian 2%
Other 2%

According to the current Political Dashboard available on yahoo.com, the current voter breakdown as of 2008 is as follows:

White 66%
Black 12%
Latino 15%
Asian 4%
Other 3%

On today, Unity Day, Rasmussen's daily tracking poll has picked up Unity!

For the first time all year, Obama is supported by 80% of Democrats over McCain. In recent months, his support from Democrats has typically been in the high-60’s or low-70’s range.

(You wouldn't know it by her website but it's highly censored)

There is also a Unity Pub Crawl going on in Austin tonight.

Free Pickup Trucks for Rednecks Who Vote for Obama

Now that I would be willing to chip in for that from Down Under. Hahahahahaha and it would bloody well work for sure.

Superdelegate says Clinton campaign used 'divisive tactics'

Posted by baligirl on 06/06/08 at 4:25AM
He's telling the ugly truth about Hillary and Terry Mcauliffe. There was an interview with a member of the Congressional Black Caucus and in it she remarks that as far back as 2004 at the DNC convention Hillary was requesting support for her 2008 run. The Clintons and Mcauliffe had no intentions of supporting Gore or Kerry. They have been planning this for years and sabotaging everyone else running for president. This is why Hillary thought she had a right to the nomination. That is why Mcauliffe had a record number of democratic defeats when he was the chairman. He was only focused on the Clintons. They have shown their true colors publicly and were rejected finally. Hopefully the people in New York will give them the final push out the door.

Now that is what I believe happened to Gore and Kerry, the Democratic Party were never there to support them.

Made in Seattle - I ordered a 12-pack for my son's graduation

http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/silenced_majority_portal/2008/06/campaign-jones.html

I thought someone else had this group all tied up ...

Latinos Favor Obama Over McCain
http://www.truthout.org/article/latinos-favor-obama-over-mccain
In The Los Angeles Times, Peter Wallsten reports: "Some Democrats have worried that Latinos view Obama warily and will be drawn to Republican nominee John McCain, who has been popular in that community and has campaigned in it aggressively - already airing Spanish-language radio ads in the heavily Latino battlegrounds of New Mexico and Nevada. But there are signs that Obama begins the general election battle for Latinos with significant advantages."

I am going to do outreach tomorrow at a Filipino event.

June 7, 2008 3:42 PM
kangaroo said:
Superdelegate says Clinton campaign used 'divisive tactics'

*****

I find it no less than a coup......and I find it unpatriotic and reeking of Neocon Money.

That does help explain why Gore got ripped off and why Kerry never got any air time when campaigning.

This was great! You might enjoy it.

Joe LIEberman on Facebook

Clinton arrived about a half-hour late, accompanied by her husband, former president Bill Clinton, and their daughter, Chelsea, all three of them dressed in black.

Huh?

All in mourning? They just don't stop, do they? They just don't care, do they?

Hillary Clinton's speech today. I will admit as far as I'm concerned if she would have held that tenor throughout the campaign then I probably would have voted for her. She actually said the words "UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE" and she was not triangulating about the war.

Peter Daou's diary :: ::

Here is the transcript of Hillary's speech:

Hillary Rodham Clinton

Washington DC

June 7, 2008

Thank you so much. Thank you all.

Well, this isn’t exactly the party I’d planned, but I sure like the company.

I want to start today by saying how grateful I am to all of you – to everyone who poured your hearts and your hopes into this campaign, who drove for miles and lined the streets waving homemade signs, who scrimped and saved to raise money, who knocked on doors and made calls, who talked and sometimes argued with your friends and neighbors, who emailed and contributed online, who invested so much in our common enterprise, to the moms and dads who came to our events, who lifted their little girls and little boys on their shoulders and whispered in their ears, "See, you can be anything you want to be."

To the young people like 13 year-old Ann Riddle from Mayfield, Ohio who had been saving for two years to go to Disney World, and decided to use her savings instead to travel to Pennsylvania with her Mom and volunteer there as well. To the veterans and the childhood friends, to New Yorkers and Arkansans who traveled across the country and telling anyone who would listen why you supported me.

To all those women in their 80s and their 90s born before women could vote who cast their votes for our campaign. I’ve told you before about Florence Steen of South Dakota, who was 88 years old, and insisted that her daughter bring an absentee ballot to her hospice bedside. Her daughter and a friend put an American flag behind her bed and helped her fill out the ballot. She passed away soon after, and under state law, her ballot didn’t count. But her daughter later told a reporter, "My dad’s an ornery old cowboy, and he didn’t like it when he heard mom’s vote wouldn’t be counted. I don’t think he had voted in 20 years. But he voted in place of my mom."

To all those who voted for me, and to whom I pledged my utmost, my commitment to you and to the progress we seek is unyielding. You have inspired and touched me with the stories of the joys and sorrows that make up the fabric of our lives and you have humbled me with your commitment to our country.

18 million of you from all walks of life – women and men, young and old, Latino and Asian, African-American and Caucasian, rich, poor and middle class, gay and straight – you have stood strong with me. And I will continue to stand strong with you, every time, every place, and every way that I can. The dreams we share are worth fighting for.

Remember - we fought for the single mom with a young daughter, juggling work and school, who told me, "I’m doing it all to better myself for her." We fought for the woman who grabbed my hand, and asked me, "What are you going to do to make sure I have health care?" and began to cry because even though she works three jobs, she can’t afford insurance. We fought for the young man in the Marine Corps t-shirt who waited months for medical care and said, "Take care of my buddies over there and then, will you please help take care of me?" We fought for all those who’ve lost jobs and health care, who can’t afford gas or groceries or college, who have felt invisible to their president these last seven years.

I entered this race because I have an old-fashioned conviction: that public service is about helping people solve their problems and live their dreams. I’ve had every opportunity and blessing in my own life – and I want the same for all Americans. Until that day comes, you will always find me on the front lines of democracy – fighting for the future.

The way to continue our fight now – to accomplish the goals for which we stand – is to take our energy, our passion, our strength and do all we can to help elect Barack Obama the next President of the United States.

Today, as I suspend my campaign, I congratulate him on the victory he has won and the extraordinary race he has run. I endorse him, and throw my full support behind him. And I ask all of you to join me in working as hard for Barack Obama as you have for me.

I have served in the Senate with him for four years. I have been in this campaign with him for 16 months. I have stood on the stage and gone toe-to-toe with him in 22 debates. I have had a front row seat to his candidacy, and I have seen his strength and determination, his grace and his grit.

In his own life, Barack Obama has lived the American Dream. As a community organizer, in the state senate, as a United States Senator - he has dedicated himself to ensuring the dream is realized. And in this campaign, he has inspired so many to become involved in the democratic process and invested in our common future.

Now when I started this race, I intended to win back the White House, and make sure we have a president who puts our country back on the path to peace, prosperity, and progress. And that's exactly what we're going to do by ensuring that Barack Obama walks through the doors of the Oval Office on January 20, 2009.

I understand that we all know this has been a tough fight. The Democratic Party is a family, and it’s now time to restore the ties that bind us together and to come together around the ideals we share, the values we cherish, and the country we love.

We may have started on separate journeys – but today, our paths have merged. And we are all heading toward the same destination, united and more ready than ever to win in November and to turn our country around because so much is at stake.

We all want an economy that sustains the American Dream, the opportunity to work hard and have that work rewarded, to save for college, a home and retirement, to afford that gas and those groceries and still have a little left over at the end of the month. An economy that lifts all of our people and ensures that our prosperity is broadly distributed and shared.

We all want a health care system that is universal, high quality, and affordable so that parents no longer have to choose between care for themselves or their children or be stuck in dead end jobs simply to keep their insurance. This isn’t just an issue for me – it is a passion and a cause – and it is a fight I will continue until every single American is insured – no exceptions, no excuses.

We all want an America defined by deep and meaningful equality – from civil rights to labor rights, from women’s rights to gay rights, from ending discrimination to promoting unionization to providing help for the most important job there is: caring for our families.

We all want to restore America’s standing in the world, to end the war in Iraq and once again lead by the power of our values, and to join with our allies to confront our shared challenges from poverty and genocide to terrorism and global warming.

You know, I’ve been involved in politics and public life in one way or another for four decades. During those forty years, our country has voted ten times for President. Democrats won only three of those times. And the man who won two of those elections is with us today.

We made tremendous progress during the 90s under a Democratic President, with a flourishing economy, and our leadership for peace and security respected around the world. Just think how much more progress we could have made over the past 40 years if we had a Democratic president. Think about the lost opportunities of these past seven years – on the environment and the economy, on health care and civil rights, on education, foreign policy and the Supreme Court. Imagine how far we could’ve come, how much we could’ve achieved if we had just had a Democrat in the White House.

We cannot let this moment slip away. We have come too far and accomplished too much.

Now the journey ahead will not be easy. Some will say we can’t do it. That it’s too hard. That we’re just not up to the task. But for as long as America has existed, it has been the American way to reject "can’t do" claims, and to choose instead to stretch the boundaries of the possible through hard work, determination, and a pioneering spirit.

It is this belief, this optimism, that Senator Obama and I share, and that has inspired so many millions of our supporters to make their voices heard.

So today, I am standing with Senator Obama to say: Yes we can.

Together we will work. We’ll have to work hard to get universal health care. But on the day we live in an America where no child, no man, and no woman is without health insurance, we will live in a stronger America. That’s why we need to help elect Barack Obama our President.

We’ll have to work hard to get back to fiscal responsibility and a strong middle class. But on the day we live in an America whose middle class is thriving and growing again, where all Americans, no matter where they live or where their ancestors came from, can earn a decent living, we will live in a stronger America and that is why we must elect Barack Obama our President.

We’ll have to work hard to foster the innovation that makes us energy independent and lift the threat of global warming from our children’s future. But on the day we live in an America fueled by renewable energy, we will live in a stronger America. That’s why we have to help elect Barack Obama our President.

We’ll have to work hard to bring our troops home from Iraq, and get them the support they’ve earned by their service. But on the day we live in an America that’s as loyal to our troops as they have been to us, we will live in a stronger America and that is why we must help elect Barack Obama our President.

This election is a turning point election and it is critical that we all understand what our choice really is. Will we go forward together or will we stall and slip backwards. Think how much progress we have already made. When we first started, people everywhere asked the same questions:

Could a woman really serve as Commander-in-Chief? Well, I think we answered that one.

And could an African American really be our President? Senator Obama has answered that one.

Together Senator Obama and I achieved milestones essential to our progress as a nation, part of our perpetual duty to form a more perfect union.

Now, on a personal note – when I was asked what it means to be a woman running for President, I always gave the same answer: that I was proud to be running as a woman but I was running because I thought I’d be the best President. But I am a woman, and like millions of women, I know there are still barriers and biases out there, often unconscious.

I want to build an America that respects and embraces the potential of every last one of us.

I ran as a daughter who benefited from opportunities my mother never dreamed of. I ran as a mother who worries about my daughter’s future and a mother who wants to lead all children to brighter tomorrows. To build that future I see, we must make sure that women and men alike understand the struggles of their grandmothers and mothers, and that women enjoy equal opportunities, equal pay, and equal respect. Let us resolve and work toward achieving some very simple propositions: There are no acceptable limits and there are no acceptable prejudices in the twenty-first century.

You can be so proud that, from now on, it will be unremarkable for a woman to win primary state victories, unremarkable to have a woman in a close race to be our nominee, unremarkable to think that a woman can be the President of the United States. And that is truly remarkable.

To those who are disappointed that we couldn’t go all the way – especially the young people who put so much into this campaign – it would break my heart if, in falling short of my goal, I in any way discouraged any of you from pursuing yours. Always aim high, work hard, and care deeply about what you believe in. When you stumble, keep faith. When you’re knocked down, get right back up. And never listen to anyone who says you can’t or shouldn’t go on.

As we gather here today in this historic magnificent building, the 50th woman to leave this Earth is orbiting overhead. If we can blast 50 women into space, we will someday launch a woman into the White House.

Although we weren’t able to shatter that highest, hardest glass ceiling this time, thanks to you, it’s got about 18 million cracks in it. And the light is shining through like never before, filling us all with the hope and the sure knowledge that the path will be a little easier next time. That has always been the history of progress in America.

Think of the suffragists who gathered at Seneca Falls in 1848 and those who kept fighting until women could cast their votes. Think of the abolitionists who struggled and died to see the end of slavery. Think of the civil rights heroes and foot-soldiers who marched, protested and risked their lives to bring about the end to segregation and Jim Crow.

Because of them, I grew up taking for granted that women could vote. Because of them, my daughter grew up taking for granted that children of all colors could go to school together. Because of them, Barack Obama and I could wage a hard fought campaign for the Democratic nomination. Because of them, and because of you, children today will grow up taking for granted that an African American or a woman can yes, become President of the United States.

When that day arrives and a woman takes the oath of office as our President, we will all stand taller, proud of the values of our nation, proud that every little girl can dream and that her dreams can come true in America. And all of you will know that because of your passion and hard work you helped pave the way for that day.

So I want to say to my supporters, when you hear people saying – or think to yourself – "if only" or "what if," I say, "please don’t go there." Every moment wasted looking back keeps us from moving forward.

Life is too short, time is too precious, and the stakes are too high to dwell on what might have been. We have to work together for what still can be. And that is why I will work my heart out to make sure that Senator Obama is our next President and I hope and pray that all of you will join me in that effort.

To my supporters and colleagues in Congress, to the governors and mayors, elected officials who stood with me, in good times and in bad, thank you for your strength and leadership. To my friends in our labor unions who stood strong every step of the way – I thank you and pledge my support to you. To my friends, from every stage of my life – your love and ongoing commitments sustain me every single day. To my family – especially Bill and Chelsea and my mother, you mean the world to me and I thank you for all you have done. And to my extraordinary staff, volunteers and supporters, thank you for working those long, hard hours. Thank you for dropping everything – leaving work or school – traveling to places you’d never been, sometimes for months on end. And thanks to your families as well because your sacrifice was theirs too.

All of you were there for me every step of the way. Being human, we are imperfect. That’s why we need each other. To catch each other when we falter. To encourage each other when we lose heart. Some may lead; others may follow; but none of us can go it alone. The changes we’re working for are changes that we can only accomplish together. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are rights that belong to each of us as individuals. But our lives, our freedom, our happiness, are best enjoyed, best protected, and best advanced when we do work together.

That is what we will do now as we join forces with Senator Obama and his campaign. We will make history together as we write the next chapter in America’s story. We will stand united for the values we hold dear, for the vision of progress we share, and for the country we love. There is nothing more American than that.

And looking out at you today, I have never felt so blessed. The challenges that I have faced in this campaign are nothing compared to those that millions of Americans face every day in their own lives. So today, I’m going to count my blessings and keep on going. I’m going to keep doing what I was doing long before the cameras ever showed up and what I’ll be doing long after they’re gone: Working to give every American the same opportunities I had, and working to ensure that every child has the chance to grow up and achieve his or her God-given potential.

I will do it with a heart filled with gratitude, with a deep and abiding love for our country– and with nothing but optimism and confidence for the days ahead. This is now our time to do all that we can to make sure that in this election we add another Democratic president to that very small list of the last 40 years and that we take back our country and once again move with progress and commitment to the future.

Thank you all and God bless you and God bless America.

Ok. this is one of those time when I should probably walk away and just shut the F*** up.

But I'm sorry. I feel I need to say this.

Today, as Barack Obama and Hillary asked their supporters to reach out to the other and unify, why in the hell are there comments mocking their choice of clothes?

How does being mean spirited like that encourage any Hillary supporters to support Obama in November?

Also, frankly, I thought it was pretty sexist when the media had to comment on the fact that Nancy Pelosi wore a Armani suit for her swearing-in day as Speaker of the House. Gee...in all my years observing politics, I sure don't remember them commenting on Trent Lott's attire. Or on Denny Hastert looking like a fat-pig in his suits.

Where in a discussion of Democracy and progressive values is it ok to mock a Democrat who has JUST DONE RIGHT BY HER PARTY and HER SUPPORTERS?

I'm sorry to go off like this. Maybe I should have ignored it.

But I'm very insulted here.

I think people should have FOCUSED on her entreaty to HER SUPPORTERS to reach out to Obama's supporters and GET OBAMA elected.

So to mock her family for wearing mourning attire, after they have spent 16 months in a heated, passionate race, then how is that going to encourage Hillary's people to join us? ANd furthermore, doesn't that focus on her clothing, for God's sake, PROVE that the sexism that she was fighting against existed?

I'm sorry for saying all this.

But Hillary and the supporters wearing a formal black suit--in mourning for her lost dreams and hard work--has NOTHING to do with the GENEROUS and SPIRITED ENDORSEMENT she just gave to Obama today. It has NOTHING to do with Democracy. It has NOTHING to do with the things that unite us with Hillary and Obama: universal health care, ending the war, education, etc...

I'm very sorry if I've offended anyone. Perhaps, I need to take a break from the DCP. Because I just feel at this point that some meanness against Obama and Hillary has been happening from both sides. Some has been based in fact, but others are just plain meanness and what I consider unfair to one or the other.

I'm tired of it.

You're right, sparrow. Sorry.

Hello All,

I am in Oregon, at a retreat with seven women activists, and we are discussing some next steps for the peace movement--NOT that we are in charge or anything! But we felt the need for some time off, some quiet talks and walks on the beach.

But I will say that the conversations about HRC and Obama run the same gamut as those here. We have talked about our disappointments in the Clinton campaign (especially those of us who are "older feminists" and who would have, under other circumstances, really hoped for a woman to win. We have reviewed Obama's war stance and his AIPAC speech and worried, but also agreed that the story he is telling--his narrative--is headed in the right direction. We have discussed concerns about John McCain and how to help people understand exactly who he is and what he has done (NOT supported the troops, for example).

The women here just made a giant peace sign on the beach, and I'll try to put it up here.

No answers, just the same questions that we all share, the hopes for a better country and a restoration of the rule of law, and a spirit of doing.

More Kayakbiker portraits of Obama supporters
http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/silenced_majority_portal/2008/06/what-is-that-wh.html

Karen
It's likely Obama and Hillary both attended the Bildenberg meeting Thursday night in Virginia too, with the world's power brokers. It's just the world we live in. Would much rather have either of them than McCain by a long shot, but I think Obama represents the reworking of the Democratic party that has been in the works for several years and that it now seems time for.

woz, and nmp, (and others here), (Matthew, Monkey, Christy, etc...)

You know I love you guys.

And I'm sure you've noticed that I have tried to be a fair person around here.

I didn't mean to embarrass anyone in my post. I just felt I couldn't walk away even though I wanted to.

I didn't mean to offend - I am extremely visual and image is something I notice. I like policy and can be serious but I do notice when the Clintons dress in black (or when Hillary wears pantsuits or when she wears pink or turquoise to play up her colors or when she wears a pink tropical shirt in Puerto Rico and wiggles her hips.) I do notice when Barack is on the beach in his swimsuit or when he "brushes it off" using a rap gesture, or when he (like John Kerry) has to put on some Carhart-type get up in some state where suits are frowned on, or when his wife with her buff upper arms can get away with sleeveless and halter dresses, which I just did a blog post on.

Kayakbiker's latest was portraits of what Obama supporters were wearing and I did one on McCain's attempts to be hip, since he is not having much luck attracting the younger set, who enjoy clothes and appearance and visual individuality. Earlier today I was amazed by the Jones Cola bottles and the photographer who is selling bikinis with the candidates names on them. I understand different people look at different aspects of things. This is a culture where there are photographers everywhere and people go out to be seen, so if they do so, I'm with Diane Arbus that they are fair game for commentary.

Sparrow
I appreciate your post. I tend to be visual in the extreme and sometimes don't even have any comprehension that maybe I shouldn't look at something or comment on it or photograph it. I am over the top that way, so I do have to remember all the various perspectives. I can't watch violence or even deal with television so I guess my "eye" goes in other directions.

Speaking of visual, this is an incredibly cool interpretation in multicolor of the primary elections from state to state, logarithmically represented.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/7/52827/71217/377/531524
Very clever.

GREAT video compilation of the newspaper front pages of all 50
states and several foreign countries...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6VfZ4h0uZ4
This is headed for BarackLikeMe for sure!!

Please don't stop with the photos nmp. And kayakbiker's also. They are absolutely great and are actually a mix of culture and politics and histoy/chronology. Very, very important.

nmp,

I saw your post on Michelle's buff arms and the style clothing she wore. And it was a sweet post even though it focused on clothes. (And buff arms.)

But I guess what touched my buttons is that the post about them wearing black was derogatory and not 'sweet' to the Clinton's the way the Michelle post was sweet to the Obama's.

And yes, for me the difference is the amount of meanness or kindness in a post or comment about clothes.

When this campaign has been nothing but put-downs of one candidate or another, AND we're allegedly all on the same team, it just sounds like we may as well not even try to get a "D" elected because we're too busy helping the Republicans by beating up our own.

And I would have to say that today, in her firm endorsement of Obama, she wore a pretty blue shirt beneath her black suit. She had on white pearls. She looked beautiful, just as Michelle Obama looked beautiful in the fuscia sleeveless dress.

Bill Clinton had on his black jacket with a white shirt and a gold tie. He looked like Bill.

Chelsea sat next to Bill in the audience and looked at her mom with such pride in her eyes--just the way it should be!

I didn't see what she was wearing. She seemed like she would look down when the camera caught her.

Bill and Chelsea looked at Hillary and they both looked proud. The other day I had an argument with someone here about if people should be derogatory of Bill and Hillary's relationship. Well, what I saw in the video today was a family. A family who was there to support Hillary and who was proud of her.

nmp--please don't stop the photos or comments on things with photos. I stayed with you at y-kos-don't forget--so I saw first hand how your eyes visualize things.

Beside, the pictures are awesome!

I simply was commenting about something else altogether. I think you probably understand more of what I'm talking about now.

Sparrow
Yes the post about Clintons wearing black was rude but I read it in the newspaper and did not watch the speech so my first impression was totally different than if I had context.

I did see a photo of the building the speech was given in - it was beautiful! She has overhead crowd photos on her site. I will probably see clips from it eventually.

I actually hated it when people like Ralpheh posted so many negative things about the Clintons that I at first supported them more than alot of people I know. After the negative campaigning though I'm just burnt out on them & didn't really want to see or talk about them much.

I wanted to give their supporters time to learn more about Obama like I had to do, to heal like I had to do after the Kerry thing in 2004, and to sort out the real Clinton people from those Republican trolls posing as them.

Kangaroo
You are totally right that we aim to cover politics and culture as history, or better yet anthropology. That is the story of how we met in college and why we remain close friends despite distance. & then we met Nyc (the trucks for rednecks guy who is an ex Marine etc. and younger than us - nice balance)

As a matter of fact I am going to read Bill Clinton's book soon, which is in my basement. I am going to kind of separate it from all that has transpired in this campaign to sour me on him/them - get some perspective again. That doesn't mean that I don't want the Democratic party to take an abrupt turn away from the old version of the DNC/DLC. That is something I have only been figuring out in recent weeks, as I read more about McAuliffe, Ickes and so on.

Sparrow, on further reflection I think you are upset at what you perceive as Hillary-slamming. Maybe not. But when THE three members of one campaign ALL dress in black to announce the end of their campaign, the act is quite deliberate and begs to be discussed.

This is a lot different from someone slamming a woman as being unsuitable for the role because she's "barren" which was said by a prominent Australian politician about our deputy Prime Minister, Julia Gillard.

Suits are suits so men have it easy. The photo of John Howard and George W Bush in their matching islander shirts deserved all the ridicule it got even though the shirts were gifts and everyone else attending that conference was clad in one at the time.

Well I'm not quite ready to be all Kumbaya and welcoming and convincing - I think I need a break from politics for a few hours!

That's quite easy to accomplish.

Remember this?

By the way, some people are coming together in Unity already and I read that McCain people were not happy about Unity.

woz,

Discussing the colors a campaign or candidate wore is the last thing this country needs to heal and make sure that we can beat McCain.

We can make another controversy out of the 'blackgate' or we can read and listen to Hillary's words as she said,

Now when I started this race, I intended to win back the White House, and make sure we have a president who puts our country back on the path to peace, prosperity, and progress. And that's exactly what we're going to do by ensuring that Barack Obama walks through the doors of the Oval Office on January 20, 2009.


I understand that we all know this has been a tough fight. The Democratic Party is a family, and it’s now time to restore the ties that bind us together and to come together around the ideals we share, the values we cherish, and the country we love.


We may have started on separate journeys – but today, our paths have merged. And we are all heading toward the same destination, united and more ready than ever to win in November and to turn our country around because so much is at stake.


We all want an economy that sustains the American Dream, the opportunity to work hard and have that work rewarded, to save for college, a home and retirement, to afford that gas and those groceries and still have a little left over at the end of the month. An economy that lifts all of our people and ensures that our prosperity is broadly distributed and shared.


We all want a health care system that is universal, high quality, and affordable so that parents no longer have to choose between care for themselves or their children or be stuck in dead end jobs simply to keep their insurance. This isn’t just an issue for me – it is a passion and a cause – and it is a fight I will continue until every single American is insured – no exceptions, no excuses.


We all want an America defined by deep and meaningful equality – from civil rights to labor rights, from women’s rights to gay rights, from ending discrimination to promoting unionization to providing help for the most important job there is: caring for our families.


We all want to restore America’s standing in the world, to end the war in Iraq and once again lead by the power of our values, and to join with our allies to confront our shared challenges from poverty and genocide to terrorism and global warming.

That's my opinion on this. Black-gate is a nonissue and I'm not handing the Republicans something to use to twist the knives in our side.

Like nmp said, "I think I need a break from politics for a few hours. That's quite easy to accomplish."

I'm joining nmp on that break. Because I'm just tired of fighting and turning the guns in a circular firing squad.

Oh. Before I go, I just found this article that really expressed things well. If Hillary had behaved like THIS, she could have been the nominee.

Analysis: Clinton loosens up — finally. This one's for the girls.

By BETH FOUHY,
WASHINGTON -

That was Hillary Rodham Clinton's message Saturday as she ended her presidential bid — a final, full-throated acknowledgment of what her pioneering quest had meant to women.

It was a moving, genuine and unexpected moment for Clinton, who spent most of her campaign playing down her gender as a way to reassure voters who might have trouble imagining a female commander in chief.

Speaking to supporters at the National Building Museum here, Clinton finally seemed to jettison the counsel she'd received over the course of her 17-month campaign to be safe and non-controversial — advice that made her seem steely and dull and robbed her of the magic her barrier-breaking campaign might otherwise have had.

Also gone was the careful, poll-tested message of "strength and experience" she had pressed throughout the campaign, which emphasized her toughness at the expense of her humanity and warmth.

In defeat, the former first lady was finally free — and clearly eager to let it rip.

"Although we weren't able to shatter that highest, hardest glass ceiling this time, thanks to you, it's got about 18 million cracks in it," Clinton said — a reference to the millions of voters who supported her in the primaries.

"The light is shining through like never before, filling us all with the hope and the sure knowledge that the path will be a little easier next time," she said to applause and cheers.

The former first lady who made history with her election to the Senate in 2000 spoke of running for president as both a mother and a daughter. Her weeping 89-year-old mother, Dorothy Rodham, and 28-year old daughter Chelsea stood nearby.

She channeled suffragists who gathered in Seneca Falls, N.Y., in 1848. She noted that biases against women still exist. And she spoke to female insecurity, urging women not to take the wrong message from her defeat and fail to try to achieve their dreams.

"It would break my heart if, in falling short of my goal, I in any way discouraged any of you from pursuing yours," she said. "When you stumble, keep faith. And, when you're knocked down, get right back up and never listen to anyone who says you can't or shouldn't go on."

The speech offered a telling glimpse into what might have happened had Clinton shed her pantsuit-clad androgyny and presented herself instead as what she was: a female trailblazer, going where no woman in this country had ever gone before.

Clinton's passionate female supporters recognized that side of her all along — hugging her on the rope line at campaign events and whispering into her ear as though she were one of their girlfriends. They proudly wore her campaign buttons and angrily pushed back on what they viewed as sexist trash-talk by television commentators and political opponents.

But to her skeptics, she was "just another Clinton" — a calculating politician driven by overweening ambition, ready to steamroll her opponents if that's what it took to get elected. They never for a second doubted she was tough enough to take the 3 a.m. phone call — they just wanted to elect someone else to do it instead.

Would things have been different had the New York senator peeled back the armor and embraced her femininity? No one will ever know. But she won the New Hampshire primary after finally showing some emotion.

Polls show Obama still has considerable work to do to win over Clinton's anguished female backers — a matter she addressed in her speech by acknowledging how much both candidates had in common.

To do so, she linked the milestones each had hit — she as the first serious female candidate, he as the first black to be nominated by a major party for president.

"Children today will grow up taking for granted that an African-American or a woman can, yes, become the president of the United States," she said.

Watching the speech at home in Chicago, Obama clearly recognized the message Clinton was sending to women and quickly embraced it.

"I honor her today for the valiant and historic campaign she has run," he said in a statement. "She shattered barriers on behalf of my daughters and women everywhere, who now know that there are no limits to their dreams."

Guys:

Not all Clinton supporters are female, you know. Some of us are males that consider ourselves moderate Democrats. Also, on the AIPAC thing, I would like to point out that that is a US organization, not an Israeli thing. Just as with the Armenian-Azeri thing, you will find that it is the expat side -- i.e., Americans supporting Likud or Armenians in America -- that push these things to extremes. My buddy from Arkansas at work has a theory on that -- he calls it the "distance/courage curve." Mostly, we talk about it in terms of negotiating contracts, but it applies to other areas of life as well (blogging too, come to think on it). Anyway, the idea is, that the further away a person is from a conflict, in a direct an physical sense, the more willing they are to take a radical stance. Once you have to face the issue directly, you tend to get more, well, maybe mellow is the word. Or moderate. I guess cooperation and mutual respect is a form of triangulation.

Chuck in Houston

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to loose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTHRg_iSWzM&feature=related

And this is from Garfield HS in Seattle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_nO0F4ugss&feature=related

from Cleveland HS, Portland

Chuck in Houston

If you're ever in Houston, well you'd better do right:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DksGi7B5BdM

Where did our love go?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1boUrvAWteA

sparrow said:
woz, and nmp, (and others here), (Matthew, Monkey, Christy, etc...)

You know I love you guys.

And I'm sure you've noticed that I have tried to be a fair person around here.

I didn't mean to embarrass anyone in my post. I just felt I couldn't walk away even though I wanted to.

Well I love you too darlin, but I am not quite sure how I got included since 1, I wasn't here, and 2, I have never evaluated clintons wardrobe. But if you insist, I am perfectly ok with their choice of black and I actually think it is quite appropriate. They had a dream. They lost it. They are in mourning.

Why their color choice is even a story is beyond me because personally I think that is what beauty contests are for. And this so obviously isn't one.

Here is where I want to be tomorrow: grooving, on a Sunday afternoon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHZ0JD9ie8I&feature=related

I loved this outsider's take on the main-game so far. Tracee Hutchison has an interesting commentary on what it's been like to watch from outside.

The power behind the would-be president
Tracee Hutchison
June 7, 2008

IF THE word on the future of Team Hillary is to be believed, then this weekend will mark the end of Hillary Clinton's 2008 tilt at the Democratic nomination for the US presidency. That's not to say that the former first lady has given up hope of moving back into the White House come November, there's still the vice-president's job to be jostled for and what she'll do with her delegate support is a bargaining chip she's yet to play.

But while Hillary Clinton has left a trail of sociological and political upheaval in her wake, the inter-personal politics that have played out between Clinton and the presumptive presidential Democratic nominee Barack Obama have been a fascinating sideshow to the main game - a sideshow that's said everything about the generation gap that separates them and even more about the man who would be president.

More ..... http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/the-power-behind-the-wouldbe-president-20080606-2mve.html

Woz:

What is that Tracee smoking? I read it more than twice and it seemed more goofy the third time: "a trail of sociological and political upheaval in her wake, the inter-personal politics that have played out...."

Whatever.

Chuck in Houston, Texas, USA

Like a BIG glass of water in the desert....

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/7/233541/1086/910/532016

13 minutes...

Hopefully the long primary season has provided a distraction away from McCain - that would be the silver lining.

By the way Chuck - thank you for all the YouTube music videos throughout the last while!!

NMP:

That means I'll have to come up with an appropriate Bob Marley and an appropriate Elvis Costello.

Chuck in Houston, CLINTON DEMOCRAT

It's our business to stir it up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6U-TGahwvs

What's so funny about peace, love and understanding?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3ZXdvN3orA&feature=related

Chuck
How about this?
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=vKHAa6B7ITA
From French YouTubE!!

By the way, Quincy Jones is the Commencement speaker for my son's graduation! (He's a local)

Chuck
Neil Young version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_tJnj2j5kI

Clapton and Lenny Kravitz version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EoJUkF3r7E&feature=related

THis version is dedicated to John Kerry, from The Boss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feK6MV8osZ4&feature=related

Pearl Jam version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wAQGKZsnbU&feature=related
They all do it in the same key.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkok1Z4WJuY&feature=related

Dave Matthews - another Seattle guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypaH1Gj6VIs&feature=related
He leaves my son big tips.

You know, as I've gotten older, I've heard a lot of different things about a lot of different people. I've heard a few things about James Taylor, but one thing I know for sure is THAT BOY CAN SING:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNjLUPqckWY&feature=related

Chuck in Houston

Too bad Billy died early:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mlJjBYllQY&feature=related

Sparrow, I said nothing about her clothes or the colors her family were wearing. In fact, after reading Rob Andrews' comments, I refused to even watch her speech.

If Andrews' comments are accurate (and can be backed up), Hillary will remain a pariah in my book for perpetuity. Those emails about Obama's lack of support for Israel continue to circulate. I had a friend tell me weeks ago about copies that he was receiving in Florida, and he's not even Jewish.

The Republicans cannot win this win election on the issues. They can only win it through character assassination and innuendo - and it may be that the Clinton campaign gave the GOP all the ammunition they need for a general election.

from Kakaybiker's mother in North Carolina

They saw the light - praise the Lord they saw the light.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/pdcmusic/hank-williams-i-saw-the-light.html

(It's music)

Matt
Don't forget about Joe Lieberman.

Well here are Pro/Cons for Obama, who outfundraised and outmaneuvered despite an early 30 point lead by his opponent, so the Democratic Party is fundamentally changed even if coming up we rule by coalition.

http://www.2008electionprocon.org/candidates/barackobama.htm

These are not from the Obama campaign but they do monitor them to make sure they are accurate. A good resource.

U.S. has NO remaining grain reserves.

Advertisements [?]
File this under: Screwed, Blued and Tattooed

http://www.tristateobserver.com/modules.php?op=modload&...

“According to the May 1, 2008 CCC inventory report there are o nly 24.1 million bushels of wheat in inventory, so after this sale there will be o nly 2.7 million bushels of wheat left the entire CCC inventory,” warned Matlack. “Our concern is not that we are using the remainder of our strategic grain reserves for humanitarian relief. AAM fully supports the action and all humanitarian food relief. Our concern is that the U.S. has nothing else in our emergency food pantry. There is no cheese, no butter, no dry milk powder, no grains or anything else left in reserve. The o­nly thing left in the entire CCC inventory will be 2.7 million bushels of wheat which is about enough wheat to make ½ of a loaf of bread for each of the 300 million people in America.”

snip:
A Strategic Energy Grain Reserve is as crucial for the nation’s domestic energy needs as the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. AAM also supports full funding for the replenishment and expansion of Bill Emerson Humanitarian Trust.

The May 1, 2008 CCC Inventory report may be reviewed here: http://www.fsa.usda.gov/Internet/FSA_File/wid2a.pdf.

On AIPAC: I was walking around the Senate office buildings on Wednesday (setting up an advocacy day for the dance educators in a few weeks) and there were lots of folks doing AIPAC advocacy visits. (Everyone doing advocacy wears name tags, with their organization or cause on them. It's kind of funny if you think about it: all these labels).

Anyway, here is what the AIPAC people had in common:

age.

I mean, these people were OLD. They all looked like my grandparents. It was all I could do not to turn to them and say "Bubbes! Zaydes! Can we talk? Let's think about what year it is! The future of the planet is at stake!"

etc.

But I didn't say anything. I realized that as much a force as the AIPAC people are, they are not going to learn much in this election process. The best approach just might be constant reassurance that they are being heard, that their fears are being addressed, and that the ultimate goal is peace in the middle east.

The emails that Matt is referring to will need to be addressed by the Obama campaign, and it is going to take some time for some of the HRC supporters to back away from the rhetoric of antisemitism that was foisted onto Obama. This is where supporters come into the picture. As we all learned in 3004, good information, clearly presented and backed up. can, over time, change hearts and minds and bring people into the reality-based community.

Stay calm, realize that the older folks will not change but need reassurance, hear everyone out, and provide the clarity and facts, and people can and will realize truth.

Karen, watching the Pacific waves rolling in as the sun rises...

Another Republican official spills his guts to the feds
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/06/a_former_chief_of_staff.php

Bill Moyer vs O'Reilly Factor
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/8/05933/63224/869/532041
Where is the $20 oil we were supposed to be having after we invaded Iraq? Rupert Murdoch needs to explain that on Bill Moyers.

Obama speaking to his campaign
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/7/233541/1086/910/532016

Those videos are worth 9 and 13 minutes, respectively, because they tell about character - far beyond the words.

40 years - what a long strange trip it's been

parrow said:
woz, and nmp, (and others here), (Matthew, Monkey, Christy, etc...)

You know I love you guys.

And I'm sure you've noticed that I have tried to be a fair person around here.

Christy, Matt, and anyone else.

Let me clarify the reason why I used peoples' names.

I was not referring only to the post about the clothes. I was referring to many posts of mine where I've argued with people here.

The negativity about Hillary and/or Obama really bothers me.

However, my statement was simply inclusive of everyone to state that I care about EVERYONE here and that I have tried to be fair to the candidates throughout as well as I've tried to not fight with any of you, too. There has been times when it's gotten a little rough, but I still care about all of you and wish you the best. That's all that my comment meant. It was not pointing to direct people in a negative way even though it sounds like the way I wrote it was misconstrued.

BTW...if your name wasn't named, don't take it personally. I care about everyone here. I simply figured that a few of you might have really thought I lost my mind. ;-)

Sparrow
I have not seen fighting on here, just debate. I think if you can back up your points, which you can, those of us who are still here have learned the fine art of not taking things personal.

We need to separate our arguments from our personalities and use facts to back up our statements, or label them as personal opinions (or have people realize that they are our "bias," if you will) and we are fine.

I am loving seeing on the internet over time, as in comments after newspaper articles and on blogs, people learn to defend their positions and not degenerate into argument or hurt feelings so much.

There are new people who can't do this yet or perhaps have no desire to. A racist just posted at the blog I have with Bert and Nyc in response to an old article Bert's sister in North Carolina wrote about racism she encountered when registering voters. A guy talked about people "swinging from trees" and probably thinks the earth is 5000 years as old as well.

Fortunately, we do not have situations like that here.

Sparrow, no worries darlin. Just the way you wrote it really did seem like you were calling ME out on her clothing thing and I was like 'But! But... I am innocent!"

And Sparrow, go ahead and get it all out of your system, because the more honest we are here with each other, the better the conversation. And, the better off you will be for getting it off your chest and mind.

I will be honest, I have no interest in making nice with hillarys people. None. Zero. Zilch.

Maybe I would have had the campaign been ended as soon as she knew she could not win without breaking the rules. But it didn't end, and so the racist attacks kept going and going, until I learned to hate her for it. And her supporters make it a point to call you a liar to justify her lies, all the while lying themselves about Obama being a liar. Add that to the daily insults to our collective intellegence, and the only single reason left to want them around is for their votes.

But here is the deal, they can threaten to vote mccrazy if they want, but, it is an empty threat. It always has been. If they want to put themselves on the same level with both lieberman and bush, fine, but there are simply not enough democrats willing to stoop to that level to be any serious threat to Obama.

So, on top of their honesty being non existant, and the racist plans they gleefully engaged in, and and the fact not one of them feels the need to take responsibility or even apologize, on top of all that, they issue empty threats.

I will most certainly help kick mumbles mccrazy on his arse. I will gladly do it.

But after the mess the clinton people left behind, who has time to try and make nice with them to make them feel all better? Her attacks on him are going to be used constantly against him even with her gone, and we are suppossed to just roll over now and say 'Would you like to drink MY milkshake..?'

clinton and her people should have thought about all this BEFORE engaging in one of the most disgusting and disturbing campaigns in recent memory and before they so easily destroyed their own credibility for nothing except the want of power. But they chose to act instead in the most devisive and decietful way there was with the total expectation that we would all be bowing down to them wether we liked it or not.

I say if anyone should be making an effort to 'reconcile' it should be HER people, because otherwise we can leave them sitting outside eating the loser pie they earned and no one would even miss them.

Here, I'll expect them to make phone calls, register voters etc etc just as the Dean people had to do with Kerry if they were serious about getting rid of Bush.

I had Dean people call me a zombie and Kucinich people spit in my face (how peaceful - it was a "Vet for Peace") but we ended up working together against Bush and that includes all the Greens and Socialists we convinced - it still wasn't enough.

We are working it all out at Seattle for Obama and Washingtonians for Obama (how to "meld" seamlessly) a this is from Jeff Lieber at DailyKos. Take note of the last part, in particular!

Dear Blogger Friend:

JeffLieber's diary :: ::
...I know the last time that you were here you set fire to the sofa and beat the dog with a stick and called the host the most awful names and I see that you've started a series of websites that go out of its way to make up slanderous lies about the candidate that you didn't support for President, like maybe that his wife called a lot of people "whitey" or that he's corrupt beyond belief or that he's a race-baiter and I know you threatened to vote for any living being before you'd vote for him, but PLEASE COME BACK AND BLOG HERE AGAIN and post pictures of cats and we'll all act as if none of it ever happened, because, though we daily castigate and exfoliate the Democratic leadership for cajoling the likes of Joe Lieberman when he stabs national Democrats in the back... though we call them weak and gutless and without any pride whatsoever... though in the real world we'd find what you did so far beyond the pale... we are totally willing to don the full-hypocrite lycra body suit and toss all rational concerns about your behavior aside and BEG YOU ON BENDED KEYBOARD by typing your blogger name all fonty and with chocolate marshmallow sauce in the hopes that you'll use the same despicable tactics against a person that WE don't want to become President.

Love and forever pooties,

US

Sparrow, the thing you have to understand is that the rhetoric in here was tame - tame, I tell you - compared to what was allowed, for instance, in the blogs of the NY Times. It is was quaint compared to what made it into the comments section of the New York Daily News!

The rhetoric in this campaign has been utterly brutal - brutal - and it has been brutal on both sides, at least when it comes to supporters. There was a time when I believed that I was right of the edge when it came to criticism of Hillary, and I often found myself troubled by having taken so advanced a position - only to find most of the themes that I had been hammering eventually embraced by others, by people who had never read me, by the end of this campaign.

As I've written, it takes a very special skill set to inspire such intense passions on BOTH sides of a political divide.

Hillary prides herself on being tough, on never admitting a mistake, or showing any sign of weakness. And when confronted by such characteristic stonewalling, my tendency is to only hit harder. Evidently, I'm not unusual in that regard - given the rhetoric of this campaign.

Amen.

...I know the last time that you were here you set fire to the sofa and beat the dog with a stick and called the host the most awful names and I see that you've started a series of websites that go out of its way to make up slanderous lies about the candidate that you didn't support for President, like maybe that his wife called a lot of people "whitey" or that he's corrupt beyond belief or that he's a race-baiter and I know you threatened to vote for any living being before you'd vote for him, but PLEASE COME BACK AND BLOG HERE AGAIN and post pictures of cats and we'll all act as if none of it ever happened,"

A freaking Men! See, that is the problem, acting like it never happened.

It did happen. It happened to all of us, and it is still happening, and it happening MATTERED. And now, we have to DEAL WITH IT so it does not happen again and again and again.

I will not even pretend that it did not happen. I know some Obama supporters really do feel the need to reach out, and that is fine to me, I would never belittle such courage, but I personally can not do it, I will not do it, I don't even want to do it.

Because otherwise NOTHING CHANGES. It is just the same bullsh*t, over and over again.

Obama's reaction.

"Obviously, I am thrilled and honored to have Senator Clinton's support. But more than that, I honor her today for the valiant and historic campaign she has run. She shattered barriers on behalf of my daughters and women everywhere, who now know that there are no limits to their dreams. And she inspired millions with her strength, courage and unyielding commitment to the cause of working Americans. Our party and our country are stronger because of the work she has done throughout her life, and I'm a better candidate for having had the privilege of competing with her in this campaign. No one knows better than Senator Clinton how desperately America and the American people need change, and I know she will continue to be in the forefront of that battle this fall and for years to come."

Christy, Matthew,

I believe it is the supporters who have tossed the bomb in the fray and made the race more vile than either Hillary or Obama did.

The supporters tore down the place. They need to build it back up together.

Looking at how Obama and Hillary behaved yesterday, I believe they both behaved with class. This is politics and it gets mean. Both seem to understand that.

But both understand that it's better to reach out to their opponent in recognition that the larger opponent, McCain, is ever so much worse than either of them.

So yes. I don't care what supporter one said about whoever or visa versa. I think that I would rather walk over hot coals to shake hands with a Hillary, Obama, Edwards, Kerry, Dean (2004) supporter than ever risk turning my nose to them and having McCain get the votes he needs to win.

Sorry. But pride is one thing. And anger is one thing. But treating someone who agrees with you on 95% of the important issues as if they're vile and disgusting is not my cup of tea. Because I know that John McCain will have the rest of us living in huts if he's allowed to win. So reaching out and finding a way to 'make up' with the people who you fought with is pretty vitale. As well as, if Obama states that he would attempt to have diplomacy with Iran, I think it's nuts to say you wouldn't have diplomacy with a Hillary supporter.

Sorry. But that is a complete contradiction of the very CORE of Obama's message.

The old politics is holding a grudge and backstabbing and no diplomacy. The new politics--change and HOPE--means that you have to stop the hate and move towards diplomacy and reconciliation.

THAT"S what Obama stands for.

Did you really expect him to say anything different? He certainly is a classy fellow.

"No one knows better than Senator Clinton how desperately America and the American people need change,..."

Now, that is just down right funny. He must have missed her thanking Karl and
using lush limpball to defraud our election process.

But if he don't say it, then HE is the bad guy.

The irony is just too much sometimes.

This is NOT about 'pride' Sparrow.

It is about change. True change.

Not just changing THEM, changing all of US. Setting a new standard.

If it was about pride then I would still be cheering for Edwards.

"I think it's nuts to say you wouldn't have diplomacy with a Hillary supporter."

I am not the one THREATENING TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN just because my champion did not win.

These people were engaged in flat out racist attacks on Obama even to include manipulating Jews against him. Using Karl Roves advice. Defrauding our entire process.

I would not walk across a hallway to shake hands with clinton after what she TRIED to do to us. ALL of us. That is not nuts, that is just the way it is, the way SHE made it, the way her supporters made it, NOT ME.

But yet I am expected to 'be nice' I am expected to make all concessions and I am expected TO PANDER TO THEM as they threaten to use their vote for mccrazy out of SPITE.

Hell. No.

It is not crazy, it is called self preservation.

Fool me once, shame on me... fool me twice... Well, you see I WON"T be fooled again.

As far as I am concerned hillary was and still is a KARL ROVE protege. Party has no meaning to these people, they will say and do whatever it takes to attain power and maintain the status quo. And I will no longer just pretend it did not happen, or waste all of my time and energy trying to 'make up' to people who were way too damn willing to cut my throat and destroy us all.

When will they be apologizing...? Well, until they do, there is no reason at all whatsoever to believe anything has CHANGED.

And as far as mccrazy somehow pulling off a miracle and winning in November, it ain't gonna happen, not even with our party fractured.

Their party stands on the brink of TOTAL LOSS and mumbles makes a serious gaffe everyday, to an audience of republicans that already MOSTLY hate him. Obama is turning multitudes of republicans every day, and with the 50 state stategy they are about to employ Obama will almost certainly offset the numbers of hard core haters still willing to vote mccrazy.

The man is at the begginning of a very public and totally tragic meltdown. I can not think of a worse candidate. He is simply awful. He has literally a snow balls chance in hell of actually winning when you put his numbers next to Obamas.

So, the 'threat' of mumbles actually turns out to be like the 'threat' of Iraq. All hype, but no actual evidence.

All we have to do to defeat him is de-spin him which is easy since he contradicts himself every time he opens his mouth.

I honestly believe the McCain is wrong on all the issues, but I don't think he's going to be able to govern the way that Dubya has.

My guess is that even if the unthinkable happens, the Democrats will continue to build majorities in the House and the Senate. And a President McCain will end up governing pretty close to the middle.

And, no, I don't believe that Hillary acted with class - not given her "as far as I know comment" on 60 Minutes, or the dredging up of the Reverend Wright stuff, or via the "kitchen sink" (I prefer "scorched earth” as a description:) tactics that were employed after Obama went on his 11 state winning streak. I think the supporters on her side were feeding off their candidate’s energy. I certainly was – in a negative way, and I wasn’t even associated with the Obama campaign. I tried once to get to his blog, but couldn't figure out how to find it!

Christy,

I watched just a little of CNN today. And I don't think McCain is a dead horse already. He's got one thing that the Dems don't have.

(OK...two or more things.)

1. The media still gives him the "KING OF INTEGRITY AWARD"...he's their 'maverick and straight talk express.'

2. The Republicans are so use to keeping with simple talking points and they are darn good at the brain washing. They KNOW how to spin effectively; they've had years of practice.

For those reasons, McCain isn't the automatic dead horse people would like to believe.

Besides, I still believe that there are enough offended Hillary supporters, and enough racists (not necessarily Hillary supporters) who would vote for the older-white guy "Gramps" who talks about 'experience', has a war record and is a war hero, over Obama who is being labeled as inexperienced, naive,liberal, and ...well, he's clearly black.

And by the way, I keep hearing what a 'good role model' hillary is for myself and my 4 daughters.

REALLY? I mean REALLY?

Strange how a woman who rode to power on the coattails of her husband is always held up as some kind of 'feminine hero' we are all suppossed to respect just because she is a woman and she is THERE.

A FAILED presidential bid that turned into one of the lamest and most horrible examples of everything I DO NOT want my daughters to become is now suppossed to be some sort of female badge of honor? Or PROVE that we can attain equal footing?

I just saw someone else comparing her to Susan B. Anthony! I mean.... REALLY? Really really?

No. I hope when we do have a female president I do not have to explain to my girls why it is she openly lies or is engaged in race baiting.

Matthew,

"As far as I know" isn't any more of a crime than Obama saying, "She's likable enough."

This has to stop.

In my opinion, Hillary could say the sky is blue and you would hate her enough to get on her case about it.

That's what all of my posts for the last month have been about. The reality is that both Obama and Hillary fought a primary campaign that opened wounds on BOTH SIDES. Their supporters said or exaggerated what the candidates didn't say or exaggerate.

This has to stop! I'm serious!

This was a primary and while I am sure it would have been nicer to make nice for 16 months, both candidates and their supporters did damage to this party.

We need to knock it off--as far as I'm concerned.

Hillary is not 100% evil and Obama isn't 100% good. And the supporters need to stop this infighting and cross blaming, bickering, exaggerating, and meanness towards their opponent.

Yes, the DCP is tame compared to the NYT or other sites. But frankly, what is posted at the NYT's or other sites isn't necessarily written by Democrats. They could be written by Republicans happy to break up our party. The emails could have started by your ever-so-helpful-Republicans who want to increase the divide.

You know...just because someone is at the NYT's posting against Obama and 'claiming' to support Hillary... doesn't make it so.

Christy,

That's not fair to Hillary. She didn't ride to power on Bills coattails. She was a successful lawyer and a child advocate long before Bill ever became President.

While I'm not supportive of what she did at Walmart or what some of her tactics were this campaign, it is not fair to say she only made it because of Bill.

If anything, she had to overcome Bill! She got her ass kicked by what Bill did. And there are many in this world who feel that Bill's comments during this primary actually harmed her chances.

So once again, I am disagreeing here. She is not all evil and she's not as bad as all that.

Ok I admit mccrazy has some tricks up his sleeve, but in the end they are parlor tricks, and he is trying them at a time where simply EVERYONE is tired of tolerating it in exchanged for honest debate.

But, even with the media 'on hs side', he will not be able to control them much longer, not with the kind of gaffes and misstatements he is making every day now. They can only go so far with the image he gives them.

And after little scotty set them all on their ear like that, there does seem to be a building echo chamber of even republican enablers who know the jig is up. he is not getting the bad press he should, but what he is getting lately is almost 100% horrible. Except on foe news ofcourse where every day is opposite day.

When they do have time to mention him they only have time to mention this or that new scandal then they try to move on.

But they can't, because they have to cover him tommorrow, too, and the next day, and the next day. By November he won't even be a punchline because it long ago ceased to be funny.

mccrazy has a few tricks left, but his own worst enemy is himself, not us. Give him enough rope and he will hang himself every time.

I did not say she could not have 'made it' without bill. She would have made a wonderful lawyer for some corporation somewhere, no doubt.

I am saying she never would have been a candidate for president had her husband NOT been named bill clinton. She never would have been ANYWHERE near the seat of power, nor lurking around in the inner sanctum of it, had it not been for the fact her husband is named bill clinton.

If you want me to look a a true example of how a female rose from nothing and all on her own merits took power and did some good, then yes, even if I did not agree with her politics, I would still call her a feminist hero.

But hillary clinton is not where hillary clinton is on her own merits, and she damn sure is not Susan B. Anthony.

We are talking about a woman who never pumps her own gas, cook her own meals, or even had to care for her own child on a day to day basis, yet she is suppossed to 'know better than anyone else' what it is like to be a WOMAN....?

I don't think I am being unfair. I think it is unfair for her to be held up as some sort of 'role model', to be told she is MY role model, wether I like it or not just because we are both female.

She did not make it easier for me because she is a woman. All I ever saw her do was use being a woman as hammer to shut up her rivals with. There was no real overt sexism stopping her or keeping her down, but they pulled it out everytime they needed to explain one of her failures.

Why that became some sort of female iconic thing to do is beyond me.

On Bloomberg TV this weekend, McCain policy adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin — attempting to fight off the fact that McCain is running to continue President Bush’s key policies — ludicrously claimed that Barack Obama would be like President Bush on the economy. Obama is “dedicated to the recent Bush tradition of spending money on everything,” Holtz-Eakin said.

But even conservatives aren’t taking the bait on the new talking point. Reacting to Holtz-Eakin’s interview, conservative pundit Robert Novak said on Bloomberg TV:

That is the silliest thing I have ever heard! And I won’t even dignify how stupid it is.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/08/novak-rips-holtz-eakin/

HAHA!

"She's likeable enough" came AFTER "as far as I know" - a response that was in reference to a question about whether Obama was a Christian (which HE HAD TO BE if he was also a disciple of the allegedly evil Rev. Wright) or a Muslim (codeword - terrorist, or terrorist sympathizer, or someone potentially soft on terrorism to Red and Purple State Americans). Hillary's comment was deliberate; whereas Obama's comment by the time he said it was likely an attempt to put lipstick on a pig.

When Hillary departs the scene, the rhetoric against her will die down. But there's no on/off switch on public passions, especially once race and religion, and yes, even gender, divides have been widened. That's the problem with raising these subjects in the first place - and why no Democrat should ever have sought to exploit them.

I will forgive Hillary when she asks to be forgiven. But for that to happen, she has to first admit the damage that she's done - and that's not her style. Edwards voted for the war, said some annoying things during the run up, but then apologized - and the issue was over. When has Hillary followed suit, in any area? Moreover, as many have remarked upon over the past few weeks, Bill and Hillary are going around acting as if they are the offended parties, particularly Bill.

I wish she'd divorced him and run as Hillary Rodham.

I just read an article on John McCain's spurned first wife and then remember the lobbyist who looked like a younger version of Cindy that was made to stop hanging around the campaign early o?

Oops? I deleted the reference - probably just as well.

To quote Bill Clinton: Fall in love during the primary, fall in line in general election!

He needs to follow his own advice.

“If you live long enough, you'll make mistakes. But if you learn from them, you'll be a better person. It's how you handle adversity, not how it affects you. The main thing is never quit, never quit, never quit.”

Bill Clinton

Oh and since I am already being highly irreverent, I think I just fell in love with a british actor!

Rupert Everett: British Soldier Whiny Wimps

Outspoken British actor Rupert Everett, 49, has given a new interview in England, where he calls UK troops "wimps," among other things. The "My Best Friend's Wedding" star made waves a few months ago when he called Al Pacino, Diane Keaton, Robert De Niro and Robert Redford "parodies" and the "Ocean's" movies "a cancer."

Now, while promoting a documentary about a 19th century British army officer named Richard Burton who explored a male Bombay brothel called "The Victorian Sex Explorer," Everett, whose dad was a major in the Army, gave an interview to the Telegraph:

"I did have to do cadet corps for one year at Ampleforth, but it wasn't for me. I would have liked to have been in the Army in Burton's time, because then you could more or less do what you wanted. They would give you four years off to go and explore.

"Now what do you get in the Army? Bad helmets and Basra. Your guns don't work and everyone hates you when you come back..."

"In Burton's day they were itching to get into the fray. Now it is the opposite. They are always whining about the dangers of being killed. Oh my God, they are such wimps now!

"The whole point of being in the Army is wanting to get killed, wanting to test yourself to the limits. Now you have to fly 15,000ft above the war zone to avoid getting hit. I don't think there is any point in having wars if that's how you're going to behave. It's pathetic. All this whining!"

You can't say that, Rupert! "You can. The whole point of being in the Army is going to war and getting yourself blown up. That and p---ing on prisoners. Yet we all get shocked by Abu Ghraib. Oooh!" He puts his hand to his mouth as if scandalised.

"But that's war. If you don't like that side of it, don't do it. Of course soldiers are going to p--- on the first prisoners they take. It goes with the territory."

That's not why they do it, though, I say. If you are a British soldier risking your life in Iraq and Afghanistan, you are motivated by a sense of duty and principle.

"No, you do it because you are a nasty, jammy ---t and you want to p--- on everyone. That's what drew you to the Army and that's what they pay you for. They pay you to tie up prisoners and attach electrodes to their nipples and testicles and p--- on them. Don't let's complain that only the Americans do that. That is a horrible double standard."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/08/rupert-everett-british-so_n_105907.html

HAHAHAHA!

“For too long we've been told about "us" and "them." Each and every election we see a new slate of arguments and ads telling us that "they" are the problem, not "us." But there can be no "them" in America. There's only us.”

Bill Clinton

"The main thing is never quit, never quit, never quit.”

Bill Clinton

Yeah, cause just like with Iraq, as long as we don't 'quit' then we could not have possibly lost.

Right? Right.

Frank Rich: One Historic Night, Two Americas
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/opinion/08rich.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

very very good to read

new thread

"She's likeable enough" came AFTER "as far as I know" -

~~~

Is this a playground where we point fingers and say, "But she/he did it first?"

Please! We're grownups here, aren't we?!

Look, I support Obama. I have a few 'issues' as far as Hillary or Obama or even Edwards was concerned. However, I'm not voting for someone who is 100% me, because that person just doesn't exist!

Realistically, political campaigns are fought long and hard. Things get said or done, by candidates or their supporters. But ultimately, we do not have to chose to bicker and fight amongst ourselves over every little word, misdeed, said.

There are more important issues out there to worry about than this: "She's likeable enough" came AFTER "as far as I know"

nmp--btw...She didn't have to divorce him if she wanted to use the name "Rodham". She could have used "Rodham-Clinton." Teresa Heinz Kerry still uses the name "Teresa Heinz" and many were offended by her doing that. And also, Hillary, Bill, and Chelsea are a family. I think it's wrong to tell someone that they should get divorced. Just as we say our sexuality (homo-hetero-sexual) is PRIVATE and the choice to get an abortion is PRIVATE, then people's marriages and divorces should be private too. Or at least talking about their marriages, divorce, drinking, sexuality, etc seems rather tabloid to me.

But...it seems I've spent the last two days defending Hillary on stuff that I really think is just b.s.

I think there are still some strong emotions on both sides of the ex-primary, and with very good reasons.

People and their very lives and futures of them and their children are literally on the line this time. How can we expect ANYONE to have heard the stuff that was dished out by the Clinton's own negativity in a desperate attempt to establish control, and just walk away and expect it all to be swept under the rug?

That's why I felt compelled to say something on this thread, because it wasn't okay with me if it went in the archives as everybody just sat back and were forbidden to say a word about what just happened. People were unkind. People were ungracious. People were power hungry. Some people would stop at nothing, racial innuendos, all for a greedy need for power and control and attention.

If you want to HELP people, why do you need to be ugly about your opponent, and I'm not talking about being on the defensive here, I am talking about taking it to your opponent to keep him on the defensive. Why?

As long as this is America I will NEVER be tired of hearing the argument that it's not okay to rape, lie and pillage to gain power and control. I'm as human as the next person is, but we are talking about taking the passions and the fears and the hopes that have been a part of our lives for the past 7 1/2 years, and suddenly be silent because we saw action in someone else we didn't like and didn't think was healthy?

A time will come when the party will heal, but I don't think it will be this week necessarily. We are not stupid people, we know we have got to unite to save this people's, and other's. But I'm sorry I just think it is asking a bit much to expect everyone to just sit around singing Kumbaya on the day Hillary Clinton announces her concession.

We have hurts. I for one am ADAMENT about not liking what I have seen the Clinton's stoop to in the last 16 months. Do I think they are 100% evil - probably not (as far as I know).
Have they resorted to Neocon tactics in the past 16 months and gotten really ugly in the past six months? Absolutely. And if I am going to have a vote, I am also going to have a voice. And. It's. Not. Okay. With. Me.

Can we all heal and move on together? Absolutely, but I don't play games. I don't think it's too much to ask people to be allowed to voice anger and frustration and relief after what they have experienced this past year.

Of course it's not healthy to vent about it long enough to ruin our party's chances in the fall. But it IS, I.M.O. healthy to vent about it, and healthy for us to be able to voice the truths we have seen with our own eyes and heard with our own ears.

I believe in forgiveness, as in "you don't want to do the other harm". I'm not one for lack of accountability and enabling or sweeping things under the rug. There is nothing healthy about that.

I will personally never forget the things I saw and heard this past year. Why, to hold a grudge? Absolutely not!! To use wisdom!!

So I cannot walk into that good night on the day Hillary finally conceeded and say what a nice person she is. She probably is, (as far as I know.) but the facts are SHE CROSSED THE LINE with me.

Can I forgive and forget? You bet, if it's done in a healthy positive way. But I will remember.

Has anyone read THE PROSECUTION OF GEORGE W. BUSH FOR MURDER, by Vincent Bugliosi, the winning prosecutor in the Charlie Manson trial, who has laid out the case law for conviction after the President leaves office?

I am surprized that it is not as heralded as Scottie McClellan's book these days.

Can anyone explain this?