Lakoff on the Political Mind...Open Thread Version

You ready for another one America

Second President Bush floats prospect of a third

From CNN Associate Political Editor Rebecca Sinderbrand

Jeb Bush has long been considered a likely presidential candidate.
(CNN) – For only the second time in nearly three decades, there won’t be a Bush on the presidential ballot this November. But that absence may not be a permanent one, the current White House occupants hinted Sunday.

President Bush was asked by a SkyNews correspondent whether the end of his term marked the end of the Bush presidential dynasty that began with his father’s Oval Office tenure 20 years ago.

In response, Bush singled out his brother, who has often been mentioned as a possible Republican presidential contender. "Well, we've got another one out there who did a fabulous job as governor of Florida, and that's Jeb,” he said. “But you know, you better ask him whether or not he's thinking of running. But he'd be a great president."

There had been wide speculation in 2000 that Jeb Bush would enter the Republican primary race that was won by his brother.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/06/16/second-president-bush-floats-prospect-of-a-third/

"Obama's faith infuses his public policy, so that his faith is not just limited to the personal realms of his life, it also informs his leadership,"
Bush backer pens pro-Obama book
The conservative Evangelical biographer of George W. Bush and Tom DeLay has moved on to a new subject: Barack Obama. And his new book, due out this summer, may lend credibility to Senator Obama's bid to win Evangelical Christian voters away from the Republican Party.
The forthcoming volume from Stephen Mansfield, whose sympathetic "The Faith of George W. Bush" spent 15 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list in 2004, is titled "The Faith of Barack Obama." Its tone ranges from gently critical to gushing, and the author defends Obama-and even his controversial former minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright-from conservative critics, and portrays him as a compelling figure for Christian voters.
"Young Evangelicals are saying, 'Look, I'm pro-life but I'm looking at a guy who's first of all black-and they love that; two, who's a Christian; and three who believes faith should bear on public policy," Mansfield, who described himself as a conservative Republican, said in a telephone interview. "They disagree with him on abortion, but they agree with him on poverty, on the war."
His book, provided exclusively to Politico by the publisher, focuses more on Obama's religious journey than his electoral prospects.
"For Obama, faith is not simply political garb, something a focus group told him he ought to try. Instead, religion to him is transforming, lifelong, and real," Mansfield writes, going on to compare Obama favorably to Christian Democratic presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton, who he says erected a "wall of separation" between their religion and their governance.
By contrast, "Obama's faith infuses his public policy, so that his faith is not just limited to the personal realms of his life, it also informs his leadership," Mansfield writes.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11099.html

I thought McCain was running for the third Bush presidency.

Another Bush over my dead body... and thousands of others.

WASHINGTON — A federal judge ruled Monday that a White House office that has records about millions of possibly missing e-mails does not have to make them public.

U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly says the Office of Administration is not subject to the Freedom of Information Act, enabling the White House to maintain the secrecy of a lengthy internal paper trail about its problem-plagued e-mail system.

The decision came in a lawsuit filed against the administration by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a private group that has been trying to find out the extent of the White House's e-mail problems for more than a year.

The functions of the Office of Administrative "are strictly administrative," Kollar-Kotelly ruled.

Since its creation in 1978, the Office of Administration has responded to FOIA requests. But the Bush White House reversed that policy in August 2007 in the lawsuit filed by CREW.

The administration says the Office of Administration has no substantial authority independent of President Bush and therefore is not subject to the disclosure requirements.

Despite Kollar-Kotelly's decision, the White House's legal problems over its e-mail system are not over.

CREW and another private group, the National Security Archive, have sued the Executive Office of the President, claiming that the EOP has failed to comply with legal obligations by failing to take steps to ensure preservation of electronic records.

A judge is considering whether to instruct the White House on steps it must to take to safeguard electronic messages. The White Houes is seeking to have that suit thrown out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/16/missing-white-house-email_n_107340.html

Full Story Finally Emerges

He Shot Himself In Front of His Men in Iraq -- Full Story Finally Emerges

Greg Mitchell, 06.16.2008
Jeffrey McKinney's family believes that if his chain of command had paid closer attention to the symptoms, his death might have been avoided.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/he-shot-himself-in-front_b_107309.html

Waxman subpoenas FBI transcripts of Bush, Cheney interviews
Justice Dept. subpoenaed for Plame docs
By Nick Juliano Uncategorized Monday, 16 June 2008
House Oversight Committee Chairman Henry Waxman is demanding the Justice Department hand over transcripts of FBI interviews with President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney conducted during the investigation into who outed former covert CIA agent Valerie Plame.
The committee on Monday issued subpoenas ordering the Justice Department to hand over the transcript. Of course, if the Bush administration treats this subpoena like they have virtually every other one issued by Congress, it could take months or even years of legal wrangling before the issue is resolved.
Waxman (D-CA) requested the transcripts of the FBI interviews earlier this month, after publication of Scott McClellan’s tell all memoir revealing Bush administration deception. A transcript of Cheney’s interview would be of particular interest because his former aide, I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, was the only official convicted of a crime in relation to the Plame probe.
Libby told the FBI that it was “possible” Cheney instructed him to leak Plame’s name, Waxman wrote in his initial letter to Attorney General Michael Mukasey.
The affair that would become known as Plamegate began in the summer of 2003, when Plame, wife of former ambassador Joseph Wilson, was named in conservative pundit Robert Novak’s syndicated newspaper column. Novak eventually revealed that his source was former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, but investigations revealed that several White House officials, including Libby and former Bush political adviser Karl Rove, also disclosed Plame’s identity.
Many believed that Libby and Rove were exacting political revenge on Wilson, who weeks earlier had gone public with revelations that undercut the administrations’ claims that Saddam Hussein had tried to buy nuclear materials from Africa. >>>cont

http://rawstory.com/news08/2008/06/16/waxman-subpoenas-fbi-transcripts-of-bush-cheney-interviews/

Gore to Endorse Obama

Former Vice President and unsuccessful 2000 nominee Al Gore will endorse Sen. Barack Obama tonight in a joint appearance in Detroit, Michigan.

“A few hours from now I will step on stage in Detroit, Michigan to announce my support for Senator Barack Obama. From now through Election Day, I intend to do whatever I can to make sure he is elected President of the United States,” Gore wrote in an e-mail message to supporters that was also posted on his Web site.

Gore also uses the note to make a money pitch for the Illinois senator. “I’ve never asked members of AlGore.com to contribute to a political campaign before, but this moment and this election are too important to let pass without taking action,” he writes. “If you’ve already contributed to Barack Obama’s campaign, I ask that you consider making another contribution. If you haven’t, please join the movement right now.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/16/gore-to-endorse-obama/trackback/

Hey Rossi

http://christysartblog.blogspot.com/2008/06/scarlett.html

Love Ya!

Ha ha.

You guys are going to be sooooo jealous! My mom and dad are AT Cobo Hall in Detroit RIGHT NOW waiting to hear Obama. They're in the section right in front of the stage and the only people blocking their view is the media.

(So far Obama isn't there but the media has their circus right right now. Would the media really be in front of the people?!)

I have given them instructions to take notes, get a sign, and most of all...have fun!

I think this is the FIRST political rally my parents have gone to. (Unless there was something at their temple that I don't know about.)

So...so much for those pundents saying that Obama doesn't have the support of Jewish families!

Cool!

Blog about it!!!!

Wow they will see Gore too! (Sparrow's parents)

That's history!!

Hey Rossi

Thank You girlfriend, that's my girl putting her up on my site.

I have given them instructions to take notes, get a sign, and most of all...have fun!

I'm soooooooo jealous, but sparrow what about pictures just imagine the pics they could get,
tell them to have a ball from Down Under, wish I was there

Georgie and his Gang of thugs really care, wouldn't you say.

Soldiers risk ruin while awaiting benefits

MICHELLE ROBERTS
AP News

Jun 16, 2008 13:07 EST

His lifelong dream of becoming a soldier had, in the end, come to this for Isaac Stevens: 28, penniless, in a wheelchair, fending off the sexual advances of another man in a homeless shelter.

Stevens' descent from Army private first-class, 3rd Infantry Division, 11 Bravo Company, began in 2005 — not in battle, since he was never sent off to Iraq or Afghanistan, but with a headfirst fall over a wall on the obstacle course at Fort Benning, Ga. He suffered a head injury and spinal damage.

The injury alone didn't put him in a homeless shelter. Instead, it was military bureaucracy — specifically, the way injured soldiers are discharged on just a fraction of their salary and then forced to wait six to nine months, and sometimes even more than a year, before their full disability payments begin to flow.

"When I got out, I hate to say it, but man, that was it. Everybody just kind of washed their hands of me, and it was like, `OK, you're on your own,'" said Stevens, who was discharged in November and was in a shelter by February. He has since moved into a temporary San Antonio apartment with help from Operation Homefront, a nonprofit organization.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Soldiers_risk_ruin_while_awaiting_b_06162008.html

CEO pay soars amid econ woes

Executive pay reached 'dizzying heights' in '07; lawmakers flush too.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/16/AR2008061600544_pf.html

Hundreds Escape in Taliban Prison Attack

Prison break a setback for Canadian efforts in Afghanistan

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5iJCs_0BOPUZDycoTZmAsrh7lg01w

He Said It First

Sorry guys I don't know whether you want to delete the MCCaan called his wefe the C word. It's funny but might offend some people

My mom claims that they are taking pictures. But you don't know my mom and technology. The chance of me getting those pictures, IF her camera actually worked for her, and then getting them online is pretty slim.

Don't hold your breath.

However, Just an fyi...if you turn the speech on, they're in section 2 with the media in front of them. She has beautiful auburn (red) hair. You see that hair color and it's a 50-50 chance that it's her.

BTW...Bush spoke in London.

Watch how he keeps talking about history judging him. and freedom, etc

Kangaroo
You beat me. I got the video you posted (2nd one) from a listserve r/t Obama & was going to put it up at our site tomorrow, as we have too much there already.

We do have a post with the protest in London now with a really amazing picture & stuff from The Guardian and UK IndyMedia. Check it out!

I also took a bunch of photos as my son's graduation & Quincy Jones gave a simply amazing speech. I haven't been able to find a transcript or podcast yet but I'm looking.

Just click on my name!

I really did catch just the end of it because it's not streaming now but probably it'll show up on YouTube soon!

Whatchya gonna do now, Lieutenant?

Can't bash Bush; he's gone.

Can't bash Clinton; she's gone.

Just a thought.

Chuck in Houston

Crooks and Liars » Limbaugh’s Work For George Bush Pays Off ...
11 Jun 2008 ...

WASHINGTON—The Senate unanimously confirmed Stephen Limbaugh Jr. to the federal court in St. Louis Tuesday.

Limbaugh, currently a Missouri Supreme Court judge, won final approval to serve on the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri after being nominated by President George W. Bush in December.

Limbaugh is a cousin to conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh. Read on…

Well, Rush, your water carrying for George Bush and the GOP has finally paid off. My condolences to the people of Missouri.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/11/limbaughs-work-for-george-bush-pays-off-brother-now-a-federal-judge/

I was 3rd to comment when Obama's site put this up - in the whole nation! LOL

Yes, I suppose that is the correct answer. Commenting is an action.

Having a stance on Iraq would also qualify as an action.

Did the "surge" make things better or worse? On the advice of my GOP ex-boss, I am reading "Fiasco."

Chuck in Houston

So, will Obama pull us out of Iraq? Will he begin to demand that Israel withdraw to its pre-1967 borders? Or the reverse? How would those decisions impact the US economy? How would they impact our security? Does anybody even know? Does anybody even care?

Chuck in Houston

I've got to go on YouTube and find Simon and Garfunkel "The Sound of Silence"

Hello darkness my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because (forgot the rest)...

Lost Army Job Tied to Doubts on Contractor

Army Official Ousted For Refusing To Approve $1 Billion In Questionable Iraq Funds

WASHINGTON — The Army official who managed the Pentagon’s largest contract in Iraq says he was ousted from his job when he refused to approve paying more than $1 billion in questionable charges to KBR, the Houston-based company that has provided food, housing and other services to American troops.
The official, Charles M. Smith, was the senior civilian overseeing the multibillion-dollar contract with KBR during the first two years of the war. Speaking out for the first time, Mr. Smith said that he was forced from his job in 2004 after informing KBR officials that the Army would impose escalating financial penalties if they failed to improve their chaotic Iraqi operations.
Army auditors had determined that KBR lacked credible data or records for more than $1 billion in spending, so Mr. Smith refused to sign off on the payments to the company. “They had a gigantic amount of costs they couldn’t justify,” he said in an interview. “Ultimately, the money that was going to KBR was money being taken away from the troops, and I wasn’t going to do that.”
But he was suddenly replaced, he said, and his successors — after taking the unusual step of hiring an outside contractor to consider KBR’s claims — approved most of the payments he had tried to block.
Army officials denied that Mr. Smith had been removed because of the dispute, but confirmed that they had reversed his decision, arguing that blocking the payments to KBR would have eroded basic services to troops. They said that KBR had warned that if it was not paid, it would reduce payments to subcontractors, which in turn would cut back on services.
“You have to understand the circumstances at the time,” said Jeffrey P. Parsons, executive director of the Army Contracting Command. “We could not let operational support suffer because of some other things.”
Mr. Smith’s account fills in important gaps about the Pentagon’s handling of the KBR contract, which has cost more than $20 billion so far and has come under fierce criticism from lawmakers.
>>>cont
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/17/washington/17contractor.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kd8xp86reY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZGWQauQOAQ&feature=related

TSP, can you please email me...?

simpson1962@bellsouth.net

"So, will Obama pull us out of Iraq? Will he begin to demand that Israel withdraw to its pre-1967 borders? Or the reverse? How would those decisions impact the US economy? How would they impact our security? Does anybody even know? Does anybody even care?"

Maybe.

Or maybe everyone is so sick of people slanderously lying about him, we figure they could figure it all out on their own.

Christy:

Maybe what?

What lie?

Figure out what?

Chuck

Christy:

Again, you did not answer one question, but instead attacked me. Again, here are the questions you can either answer or ignore again:

will Obama pull us out of Iraq?

Will he begin to demand that Israel withdraw to its pre-1967 borders?

Or the reverse?

What would that mean?

How would those decisions impact the US economy?

How would they impact our security?

Does anybody even know?

Does anybody even care?

Chuck in Houston

Funny how you can figure out how to use slanderous lies against him, yet you seem incapable of understanding how to stumble upon the truth of things.

How sad. I mean, really, seriously. It is utterly tragic.

I sure miss the opportunity to honestly discuss things online.

Christy:

What slander?

Chuck in Houston

Oh and chuck, I will not be answering your questions. As far as I am concerned when you were caught repeatedly lying about him to slander him, it voided the need to ever know your opinion on the subject ever again.

If you actually did want to know Obamas policies, as oppossed to more slander, go to his website where he speaks for himself.

Oh, that is right, I can't see you, because you have your eyes closed.

HAHAHA!

Every time we meet, the depths of your dishonesty really does astound me.

Christy:

Well, I guess that goes to turn about fair play. You are a liar and you twist good words against themselves. I will likewise ignore you and your evil lies. You are a dishonest person in my considered opinion.

Chuck in Houston

Can you prove I lied any better than you could 'prove' Obama did?

HAHA!

BTW chuck, are you really so dumb you do not realize every single other person on this board witnessed prior conversations between us? And, they understand perfectly well the words I am using.

Or did you just count on the fact they are your 'friends' to shut them up and also pretend they are ignorant?

Really? Cause that would be the same 'friends' who's honesty you questioned repeatedly while lying to their face yourself in hopes of derailing Barak Obama.

Again, can you prove I lied in any way, at any time?

Unless you can, I would say you just bit off more than you could chew. I will put my credibility up against yours ANY DAMN DAY. Or night.

And, you do not have to ever address me again, I am more than perfectly content to let the facts stand as they are.

Christy:

Go on ahead and believe that your shit smells like roses. You are a very foolish person.

Chuck in Houston

HAHAHA!

Wow, you are such a child, it really is hillarious.

BTW, I take that as a 'No' You can NOT actually prove I am a liar any more than you could prove Obama is.

The Nation reported on a feud between a guy named Kahl and a guy named Katulis.

Kahl
'proposes a policy called "conditional engagement" for Iraq that would leave a large contingent of American forces in Iraq for several years, and which would make America's presence in Iraq contingent on political progress in Iraq toward reconciliation among the country's ethnic and sectarian groups and parties.'

Katulis
' to withdraw all U.S. forces from Iraq, except for a small force to protect the American embassy. Katulis' CAP plan also suggests a halt in the U.S. training of Iraqi government forces, while Kahl and CNAS want to continue to train the Iraqi security forces long after U.S. combat forces are withdrawn.'

Which plan is best?

According to Juan Cole,

Al-Maliki says the US is asking Iraq to give up too much sovereignty and says his government has the right to demand that the UN terminate the presence of occupying forces on Iraqi sovereign soil.

Is he bluffing?

Al-Sadr says that resistance to the Occupation will continue and is willing to martyr himself and may not affiliate with the government at all. His movement is millions strong because people continue to join who are frustrated with lack of services.

Obama also looks better in jeans.

mccain is awful. I mean just completely horribly bad. It is hard to even believe it is real, and not literally satire.

I really thought no one could look more ... worse.. than georgie, but mccrazy just makes me cringe in places I didn't even know were flexible.

E. Ghad.

And I doubt Maliki is 'bluffing'. Our puppets strings no longer control his movements. He has the upper hand.

Let's don't argue and fight with people who are basically on the same side - let's figure out what to do about people like this. I would say ignore them but there are more of them than there should be. This guy is ugly stepson of a former president, obviously jealous of his better looking and more intelligent stepbrother who was biological son. Embittered, this pathetic specimen makes Mann Coulter look docile.

The best part is that he sends out emails saying NewsMax is in financial trouble. Please let it be true and down with Fox News and Murdocu also.

Many people have waited for some sign that our country is awakening once again. How will we know when a massive wave of reform and recovery and regeneration is about to take hold and renew our nation? What would it look like if such a change were beginning to build? I think we might recognize it as a sign of such change if we saw millions of young people getting involved for the first time in the political process. I think we might just recognize it if we saw that new generation casting aside obsolete and hurtful distinctions and reaching out to one another across the ancient divisions that have frustrated action in the past. I think we would know this change was coming if a new generation rejected the special interest politics of the past and the big money that fueled it, and instead used the internet to get small donations and unite Americans in a common effort to realize our common destiny.

AL GORE

They will do anything, committ any crime, they are without shame. When I say When will the BASTARDS be charged with war crimes?

Vets Recruited For Government Tests On Drugs With Violent Side Effects

'Disposable Heroes': Veterans Used To Test Suicide-Linked Drugs
An ABC News and Washington Times Investigation Reveals Vets Are Being Recruited for Government Tests on Drugs with Violent Side Effects

By BRIAN ROSS and VIC WALTER
June 17, 2008

SHARE Mentally distressed veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan are being recruited for government tests on pharmaceutical drugs linked to suicide and other violent side effects, an investigation by ABC News and "The Washington Times" has found.

The report will air on "Good Morning America" and will also appear in "The Washington Times" on Tuesday. (click here to read "The Washington Times" coverage of "Disposable Heroes")

In one of the human experiments, involving the anti-smoking drug Chantix, Veterans Administration doctors waited more than three months before warning veterans about the possible serious side effects, including suicide and neuropsychiatric behavior.

"Lab rat, guinea pig, disposable hero," said former US Army sniper James Elliott in describing how he felt he was betrayed by the Veterans Administration.

Elliott, 38, of suburban Washington, D.C., was recruited, at $30 a month, for the Chantix anti-smoking study three years after being diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. He served a 15-month tour of duty in Iraq from 2003-2004.

Months after he began taking the drug, Elliott suffered a mental breakdown, experiencing a relapse of Iraq combat nightmares he blames on Chantix.

"They never told me that I was going to be suicidal, that I would cease sleeping. They never told me anything except this will help me quit smoking," Elliott told ABC News and "The Washington Times".

On the night of February 5th, after consuming a few beers, Elliott says he "snapped" and left his home with a loaded gun.

His fiancee, Tammy, called police and warned, "He's extremely unstable. He has PTSD."

"Do you think that he is going to shoot or attack the police?" the 911 dispatcher asked.

"I can't be certain. I don't know," she said. (click here to hear part of Tammy's 911 call)

"He was operating as if he was back in theater, in combat theater," she told ABC News. "And of course, a soldier goes nowhere without a gun."

When police arrived, they found Elliott in the street, with the gun in the front pocket of his hooded sweatshirt.

"Are you going to shoot me? Shoot me," Elliott said, according to the police report. (click here to see the police report)

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5180437&page=1

Nancy Pelosi Pulled Iran Bill On Request of Israel

Video

Ron Paul: in a speech given on 06 June 2008, congressman Ron Paul, tells how speaker of the house, Nancy Pelosi, acting on behalf of israel and AIPAC, 'deliberately' pulled a supplemental bill requiring congressional approval for attacking Iran.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20081.htm

The reality is that Iraqi authority would be nominal:

The US is lowering the number of bases it wants from 58 to "the low dozens" and says it is willing to compromise on legal immunity for foreign contractors according to information leaked to The Independent.

http://tinyurl.com/4ujhdy

The Bitch

Georgie lied and she didn't want to waste her beautiful mind

Chuck and Christy,

Do you guys not sleep?

Just curious cuz when I log in here in the morning, you always have had a spat to share.

Honestly, you might want to try sleeping instead of bickering.

Chuck,

To answer your question about Israel. I hope not. Maybe I'm the rare bird around here, but I don't happen to believe that Israel should give back all the land won in the 1967 war.

And furthermore, I am very curious why every other country that has been attacked, yet still won the war and caused the country who attacked the to retreat has never been demanded to give the land back. Yet for Israel, they got attacked on the holiest of Jewish holidays, they still won the war, and yet the losing side demands the land back?

If people are suppose to give back land when they lose then why haven't we returned Texas to Mexico?

No, I rarely sleep. And it wasn't a 'fight' nor was it 'bickering'.

Both of those words implicate a MUTUAL struggle.

Now, if you will go back to where he started in last night, you will see he did not really want those questions answered. It was a set up intended to produce the conversation he needed for yet another opportunity to slander Obama and all the rest of us who support him.

And since he is no longer doing it in her name, he must be doing it just for fun then. Or out of spite.

"Nancy Pelosi, acting on behalf of israel and AIPAC, 'deliberately' pulled a supplemental bill requiring congressional approval for attacking Iran. "

Now, that is just great. Figures.

A Senate investigation has concluded that top Pentagon officials began assembling lists of harsh interrogation techniques in the summer of 2002 for use on detainees at Guantanamo Bay and that those officials later cited memos from field commanders to suggest that the proposals originated far down the chain of command, according to congressional sources briefed on the findings.

The sources said that memos and other evidence obtained during the inquiry show that officials in the office of then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld started to research the use of waterboarding, stress positions, sensory deprivation and other practices in July 2002, months before memos from commanders at the detention facility in Cuba requested permission to use those measures on suspected terrorists.

The reported evidence -- some of which is expected to be made public at a Senate hearing today -- also shows that military lawyers raised strong concerns about the legality of the practices as early as November 2002, a month before Rumsfeld approved them. The findings contradict previous accounts by top Bush administration appointees, setting the stage for new clashes between the White House and Congress over the origins of interrogation methods that many lawmakers regard as torture and possibly illegal.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/16/AR2008061602779.html?hpid=topnews

Sick stuff.

Christy,

Please check your email.

"If people are suppose to give back land when they lose then why haven't we returned Texas to Mexico?"

Umm...Texas won its revolution versus the Mexicans when Sam Houston routed Santa Ana, and they did it before becoming a part of the US. But your point is accurate with regard to Colorado, California, New Mexico, etc. And the reason that we haven't returned them has a bit to do with a couple of treaties that were negotiated at the point of a gun, in the aftermath of the Mexican War.

At the end of the day, there's no guarantee of national sovereignty quite like that provided by a dominant military.

I talked to my brother over this past weekend, and he laughed and admitted that he doesn't believe the smears in the emails he forwarded to me last week (re: Obama) He was intentionally pushing my buttons. He and my dad had a good laugh about it. The brat.

He said he got the smears from his boss. So he sent them out, and when he got cries of outrage fired back at him he took them in to his boss and said "My brother hates me", and left the reply emails with his boss. Then he took another outraged reply to his boss and said "Now my sister hates me."

Justice for Iraqis in Georgies America, There is none

Haditha charges dropped against top Marine

From correspondents in Los Angeles
June 18, 2008 05:34am
Article from: Reuters
A MILITARY judge has dismissed the case against the highest-ranking US Marine charged in the deaths of 24 Iraqi civilians at Haditha.
Military Judge Colonel Steven Folsom dropped all charges against Lieutenant Colonel Jeffrey Chessani, who was accused of violating a lawful order and dereliction of duty, at a hearing at the Camp Pendleton Marine base in Southern California.
Col Folsom's decision means that, out of eight Marines originally charged in the events at Haditha, six won dismissals of their charges and one has been cleared at court martial.
The accused ringleader, Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich, still faces court martial. The proceedings against him, however, have been put on hold pending the appeal of a pretrial ruling.
Col Folsom threw out the charges against Lt-Col Chessani after finding that a four-star general who oversaw the investigation was influenced by an investigator who later became his adviser. The judge ruled that prosecutors could refile the case but it was not immediately clear if they would do so.
"We are grateful for the judge's ruling today. He was truly the last sentinel to guard against unlawful command influence," said Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel of the Thomas More Law Centre, which represented Lt-Col Chessani.
"Tragically, our own government eliminated one of its most effective combat commanders," Mr Thompson said in reference to Lt-Col Chessani. "The insurgents are laughing in their caves."
Lt-Col Chessani was the highest ranking officer accused of wrongdoing in the shootings at Haditha, which was portrayed by Iraqi witnesses as a "massacre" of unarmed civilians and brought international condemnation on US troops.
The witnesses claimed angry Marines killed the two dozen men, women and children after a popular comrade, Lance Corporal Miguel "TJ" Terrazas, was killed by a roadside bomb.
Defence lawyers said the civilians were killed during a pitched battle with insurgents in and around Haditha that followed the death of Terrazas.
Lt-Col Chessani had been expected to face court martial later this year.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23882693-23109,00.html

Justice for Iraqis in Georgies America, There is none

Haditha charges dropped against top Marine

From correspondents in Los Angeles
June 18, 2008 05:34am
Article from: Reuters
A MILITARY judge has dismissed the case against the highest-ranking US Marine charged in the deaths of 24 Iraqi civilians at Haditha.
Military Judge Colonel Steven Folsom dropped all charges against Lieutenant Colonel Jeffrey Chessani, who was accused of violating a lawful order and dereliction of duty, at a hearing at the Camp Pendleton Marine base in Southern California.
Col Folsom's decision means that, out of eight Marines originally charged in the events at Haditha, six won dismissals of their charges and one has been cleared at court martial.
The accused ringleader, Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich, still faces court martial. The proceedings against him, however, have been put on hold pending the appeal of a pretrial ruling.
Col Folsom threw out the charges against Lt-Col Chessani after finding that a four-star general who oversaw the investigation was influenced by an investigator who later became his adviser. The judge ruled that prosecutors could refile the case but it was not immediately clear if they would do so.
"We are grateful for the judge's ruling today. He was truly the last sentinel to guard against unlawful command influence," said Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel of the Thomas More Law Centre, which represented Lt-Col Chessani.
"Tragically, our own government eliminated one of its most effective combat commanders," Mr Thompson said in reference to Lt-Col Chessani. "The insurgents are laughing in their caves."
Lt-Col Chessani was the highest ranking officer accused of wrongdoing in the shootings at Haditha, which was portrayed by Iraqi witnesses as a "massacre" of unarmed civilians and brought international condemnation on US troops.
The witnesses claimed angry Marines killed the two dozen men, women and children after a popular comrade, Lance Corporal Miguel "TJ" Terrazas, was killed by a roadside bomb.
Defence lawyers said the civilians were killed during a pitched battle with insurgents in and around Haditha that followed the death of Terrazas.
Lt-Col Chessani had been expected to face court martial later this year.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23882693-23109,00.html

Christy, "No, I rarely sleep. And it wasn't a 'fight' nor was it 'bickering'.Both of those words implicate a MUTUAL struggle."

...It seemed mutual or something.

Either way...Don't know how you both survive if you aren't sleeping at night!

Mathew,

True, Texas was a icky example compared to the ones you gave. However, I still stand by my point--I don't feel that Israel owes anyone's land back. Particularly since some of the land won is land that keeps them safe from sneak attacks in the future.

However, I do believe that Israel isn't completely blameless in some things. But I also think that the whole mid-east is screwed up and that blaming Israel when there are five other Arab nations to negotiate with isn't very fair either. Also, other than providing terror money to the Palestinians, the Arab nations have certainly done their share to inflame the situation and they have never allowed Palestinians to become residents and purchase homes and land in their countries.

So...regarding giving back the land, I'd never give it back. And furthermore, I don't believe giving the land back would augment the peace process. Instead the negotiating point would be moved. And they'd demand MORE concessions from Israel.

I want to know why the other Arab nations are not held to the same standard that people hold Israel to? Peace required all participants to be willing to come to the bargaining table in good faith.

Israel did that in the Oslo accords and yet the infitada still happened.

Personally, I talking about Israel is a touchy point with everyone. Talking about AIPAC is touchy too. I am not a hawk as far as Israel policies are concerned; however, I also think that I'm not quite a dove either.

We always talk about Israel and AIPAC as if THEY are solely to blame for the Palestinian situation, Iraq, Iran, the situation in the middle-east.

Well, I got news.

I don't agree with that meme.

Regarding what Nancy Pelosi did, I have to read more about it before I will know if AIPAC is responsible or if it was the wrong decision.

tsp...regarding your brother. I'd be really pissed.

But then I don't like people teasing others or making fun of other's emotions.

BTW...Christy and Chuck.

I was only 'playin' about the sleeping thing. It just does seem like you both are up while the rest of us are dreaming sweet dreams (or having nightmares).

But I wasn't trying to be mean to either of you. I hope it didn't come across that way.

OMg. This is obscene given that Bush hasn't attended ANY military funerals! Yet he attended Russerts?

I appreciate that people need to pay their respects. However, I do not believe there is ONE soldier's family who has seen Bush at their mourning of their loved one.

TSP said:

"Now my sister hates me."

That is both awful and funny. Funny whoo- whoo, not funny haha.

Sparrow Said:

"...It seemed mutual or something."

When someone runs head on into a brick wall at 60 miles an hour, it is not technically correct to say they 'bickered' with the wall.

"Either way...Don't know how you both survive if you aren't sleeping at night!"

If my life literally depended on getting enough sleep, I would already be dead.

And Sparrow, quit worrying about if you offended anyone, or made someone mad. You worry too much. As long as you speak the truth of what you think or feel you are highly unlikly to actually offend anyone. And if you DON'T say what you want to say, in this perfect format for ideas, if you don't say it, you will regret not saying it forever.

And... you... mean...? Wow, I never even thought about those words going into the same sentence.

But, I want you to know, if you ever do want to be mean, just to try it, I will totally volunteer to be your first victim. You know, just until you get used to it!

My dad is a Democrat. My brother knows perfectly well that alot of my correspondence to my dad and from him is about politics.

You would have to know my brother to not be mad at him. He calls me and acts like other people all the time (with accents and the whole bit), and sometimes I have to listen really close and be a step ahead of him. In this case, I wasn't, because he and I haven't discussed politics much. I heard that he and my dad had a good laugh about it yesterday during Father's Day dinner. My brother said "So I sent her a copy of this and this, and BAM! BAM!!! she fired right back." I told him I was shaking I was so upset.

I am just relieved to know he isn't voting for McCain.

Christy,

I very rarely regret words unsaid. My philosophy is that I try to inflict the least harm upon the world. Sometimes to keep that promise, I keep my mouth shut. Other times, I find my foot in my mouth fast than you can say, "1, 2, 3..."

At any rate, my philosophy at the DCP is that I try to engage in gentle-debate. (Or firm debate, minus that flying objects like you see in the rest of cyberspace.)

I think of the DCP as a haven for the beat up people. I know it's suppose to be a place where we learn and help each other reach our political endurance opinions. But more often than not, cyberspace feels like a war zone and sometimes the DCP resembles a portion of the battle field.

I don't like battlefields---be they in Iraq or online...

Gentle debate is all fine and good, unless you are dealing with busheviks and republican lites.

They thrive when you willingly adhere to the politically correct standard of being polite to people who do not deserve it. Because they know they can lie, spin, manipulate and insult without even a whimper of resistance.

You have to follow the rules, they don't.

They ONLY lie shamelessly, because they know no one will challenge them. And if they are challenged,... HAHAHA! They actually get challenged so little, it almost always surprises them to realize you will not remain passive in the face of their dishonesty.

And, if you think this is a 'battlefield' because of that exchange, honestly I giggle to think of what you would say if I ever truly went off in front of you. If I can have that conversation with him and never lose my sense of humor, just imagine what I could do if I were truly invested in 'victory'.

You think of the DCP as a haven for the beaten, I feel it is a haven for the last of us willing to fight.

And seriously. Our inability to confront our own has been the crux of the democrats problem all along. We can not even weed out the war mongers and liars in our own party, and it has lead to a complete inability to confront the republican monster that was bred from the exact same problem. Only have a problem with it if the other guy is doing it to gain an unfair advantage. If your people do it, shut up, ignore it, pretend it doesn't exist.

Yes, those republicans sure stink, but with democrats like Murtha, how are we suppossed to say jack to republicans about it? The pelosi clown car will be around in a moment to kick ass and hold someone accountable! I mean, it really is a sick twisted joke.

And when someone comes here, and outright engages in slanderous lies? We are suppossed to what?..ignore it for the sake of unity?

I am sorry Sparrow. I can not do it. I can not do it even knowing it makes you uncomfortable. I will not tolerate it. I will not be silent. I literally can not take it anymore.

I understand your discomfort and I terribly regret it. It was never my intention. But....

You can not gently debate someone who is willing to lie and perjure themselves. You can not have a good faith agreement with someone whom has no intention of acting right.

"He calls me and acts like other people all the time (with accents and the whole bit),"

Meet my brother. Sybil.

HAHA!

Christy,

I'm sure you will be fine. And I will gently debate my pooch instead. I always win those arguments!

June 17, 2008 7:52 PM
Christy said:

Darlin' he's not a schitzo, he just loves tricks.

He called me one time and disguised his voice, and said he saw my name on a singles site and wanted to get to know me. He's your typical little brother, a tease.

Christy,

Also, I agree with you. If a person comes here looking for a fight, and instigating trouble, then after starting one swears at you, I am most disappointed.

I think, however, an apology is warranted. Absent an apology, I think it best to ignore said person.

Well, I WAS going to say "Where IS EVERYBODY???"
Then I noticed the time eastern, 12:35 a.m.

And I thought, everyone is in bed on the east coast, and I am getting ready to retire myself.

But, I do miss Alley, Monkey, Matt, Karen, Fe and the others.

Chuck, I don't see what the big deal is. Hillary got beat, fair and square. Not rubbing your nose in it, but, come on............

Some people say they are going to write Hillary in on the ballot. Some are still reeling with disappointment and despair. But a steady stream of Hillary supporters are going to the Obama camp. I mean, come on......what are the choices? John "I never met a teleprompter I didn't like" McCain? Or a person who really wants and stands for CHANGE? If you don't want change, be obstinante and demand Hillary. Then when our sons and daughters are marching off to war under the draft it will take to fight Iran AND Iraq, and anyone else the Military Industrial Complex decides would make them a wad of buckaroos, ......???? What is the point?

America, our retirement, our children, their fair chance at livelihood and even moderate prosperity, as well as many MANY people's survival is on the line.

I'm sorry, Chuck. I just don't have the patience to listen to a bunch of crap. And knock off the swearing to Christy after you come on here and instigate a spat. Freaking grow up. The stakes are too high, the cost is too great, for people's wounded ids. I could care less if Ms. Hillary gets to be La Presidente'. I care whether or not my children are going to live long enough to have children of their own and live what used to be called "The American Dream".

And Christy, I'm glad you told him off. He was being assinine.

TSP

I'm here from time to time, just not as much as before.

But I am NOT gone! I'm busy commenting on NMP's blog and posting on my own. :)

sparrow

Regarding the Israel-Arab relations, I have only one thing to say:

Israel will tolerate my presence.
Most Arab nations will kill me on sight.

Also, Nicaragua under the Ortega regime, a favorite of many liberal groups (including CODEPINK, whose organic coffee is sourced there), is another country that will kill me on sight.

The right wing doesn't have a monopoly on barbarism.

sparrow

Re: W never attending a military funeral

Proof that W never cares about/supports the troops. He only needs the oil buddies and the weapons contractors.

NMP

The best part is that he sends out emails saying NewsMax is in financial trouble. Please let it be true and down with Fox News and Murdocu also.

Sadly, Reverend Moon will still have the money to bail ALL of them out.

Courtesy of our "friends" in Seoul.

"He called me one time and disguised his voice, and said he saw my name on a singles site and wanted to get to know me."

HAHA! OMFG that is funny!

And, go figure. Just when I think I may die from lack of sleep, I actually went to bed last night and slept for 6 hours straight. It's a miracle!

New thread