OK, Sometimes ya gotta laugh or you choke...

It has come to this!

Um...I thought that was sometimes you gotta laugh or you cry...

Ok. Well, I guess we're crying already.

Thanks CONservatives--like McCain and Reagan. We're going back to the ages of serfdom.

I like that letter. I am going to forward it around.

Also, I posted a new thread about economics on the home page if you want to talk about bottom's up economics vs trickle down economics.

I thought DiAnne might appreciate a short break from the home page for a while. DiAnne always writes some wonderful essays there. Mine is not one of those. So I hope DiAnne knows how much we appreciate her threads even if there's not much chatter.

Thanks DiAnne for making the homepage as awesome as it is.

I think Chuck Schumer's suggestion of an interim $150 billion package, with more potentially coming later - once clarity can be achieved - makes a lot of sense.

I personally prefer Bernie Sanders idea of a 10% surcharge on incomes over $1 million (family) / $500 thousand (individual) to any attempt to curtail executive compensation at these companies. Such an provision might only dissuade the most qualified candidates to correct an ailing company's culture and practices from even considering such a job. The executive compensation issue is legitimate, but it needs to be addressed globally, not merely within the specific universe of failing financial institutions.

The key here is Congress doing its due diligence, and resisting any Bush Administration attempt to force this issue. It's time for Congress to declare its independence from the Executive Branch, and specifically THIS Executive Branch.

Oh Jeez! Check out this honesty from the McCain/Palin camp. Via Morgan Sandlin... Kos diary Via Salon

Margriet Oostveen is a writer who has infilitrated campaigns in the past. Both McCain's and Obamas.

Her most recent assignment led her to Arlington, Va. and the McCain/Palin campaign office.

Salon

Much to her delight, rather than phone banking she was assigned to write 'ghostletters' and told:

"You can be whoever you want to be," says an inviting Phil Tuchman. "You can be a beggar or a millionaire. A mom or a husband. Whatever. You decide!"

Phil Tuchman, of the campaign office, tells her and other ghostwriters that their letters will be used in battle ground states, such as Ohio. Pennsylvania. Virginia. New Hampshire.

Ms. Oostveen wondered how they could be assured of publication and Mr. Tuchman explains:

"We will show your letters to our supporters in those states," explains Phil. "If they say: 'Yeah, he/she is right!' then we ask them to sign your letter. And then we send that letter to the local newspaper. That's how we send dozens of letters at once."


No newspaper can refuse a stream of articulate expressions of support, is the thought behind it. "This way, we will always get into some letters column."

It was the day after Sarah Palin's big speech and Mr. Tuchman handed out talking points to the writers as Palin was their emphasis for the day.

...and Ms. Oostveen starts writing. After a slow start this woman really let's her imagination run. She writes about how much she admires Ms. Palin, her motherhood, etc., etc.,...and then she mentions Track, about to be deployed to Iraq, and then, all of the sudden, she's a mother too, with a son in Iraq, and she wants him home safe, but she wants him home proud...

Ms. Oostveen thought that she may have gone too overboard with her story (let's really not call this a letter, she's writing fiction here) but she receives this comment from Mr. Tuchman:

Phil bends over my computer screen and reads. This takes a while. I am expecting roars of laughter or to be kicked out. Then he says drily: "I like that. It appeals to the hearts of people. Can you write more letters?"

That's right..lie about your opinions, lie about who in the heck is writing this stuff, and lie about men and women in service. Lie to Americans.

There is simply nothing McCain/Palin will not smear, distort or tarnish for their gain.

Totally and completely off-topic and probably irrelevant, but this question has been bugging me...

Re: Mrs. Palin and her recent delivery of the child born with Down Syndrome. She was, after all, the Governor at the time... is there no press release announcing her pregnancy, no photos anywhere?

The Boogie Woogie Google Boy From Company Gee

Carol, that video brought tears to my eyes, not only for it's honest sincerity, but also because in the summer of 2004, I was in Switzerland, England, Germany, and Italy, and everywhere I went people were hoping and praying for John Kerry. I did not meet a single Bush supporter, either European or ex-pat American, in three weeks of travel. I still have some of the messages they wrote in a book I gave to John Kerry on my return.

In the spirit of unloading all responsibilities, I offered the DCP to the government--I estimated the worth of this website and community at 5 million. Of course, it is worth much more--all of us should be going for 10 mill at LEAST--but I thought I would be generous...

You can add to the worth of our collective assets here:

http://www.buymyshitpile.com/

Karen - just another reminder that the whole world IS watching us!

That is a great video. It is so sad to think how much the world understands that our government, under these conservatives and theocratic hypocrites, have destroyed the whole planet!

We need Obama--a person who carries the spirit of the Bible in him even if he doesn't wear it on his sleeve and even though he's not a theocrat.

From the last thread...

"Nobody needs to invade the USA to conquer it.
Japan refused to invade Mainland USA because there is a rifle or handgun behind every blade of grass. This is still the case, invading the physical USA will never happen. "

Ummm. Iraqis had a crap load of guns too, it did not stop them from being invaded. That is kinda the whole point of war. They have guns, you bring MORE guns. Better guns. Bigger guns.

Good thing Japan stepped off, because there are not enough Japanese to actually attempt an invasion of a land mass this size.

But what I do not get is US Citizens who are constantly and TOTALLY under the impression that we will NEVER be invaded. Why will we NEVER be invaded?

Why is that thought such an impossibility in the minds of our citizens that most of us actually scoff and snicker at the idea? Even when we have Chavez down below us mounting one of the scariest armies in history, here we are still saying, "Nope. It will NEVER happen!." We are so sure it won't happen, that it CAN'T happen we dismiss even Chavez as a JOKE.

I don't understand where such certainty comes from. This country was birthed by invasion forces.

They will just bankrupt us, but no one really wants all this land from sea to sea? We are just such scary people no one will DARE run on up in here?

Is that why we will NEVER be invaded, because we are just so damn SCARY...?

Ok...They bankrupt us, then what? Just leave us sitting here with our vast resources crying about how humiliated we are because we don't have any money...? And that will be their way of 'controlling' us?

Yes, you DO have to invade to 'conquer it'... Otherwise you can not claim it is conquered. You have to go in there and take down their flag and put up your own before you can claim it for yourself.

Me too, I guess, for years I also thought, 'Nope, can't happen.' Because I could not imagine the dynamics of a united force that COULD do it.

Then I looked at Chavez. A combined Latino force of every Latina country that hates us, which would be pretty much ALL of them. Backed up by a united Russia and China...

Oh, yeah, they COULD invade. And they could actually win too.

Never...? Never..? Never is a very very long time. No empire lasts forever.

The National Enquirer names Sarah Palins lover. Her hubbys ex partner.

They say they have polygraphs and affidavits.

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/national_enquirer_world_exclusive_sarah_palins_secret_lover_revealed/celebrity/65481

Iraq was an empty shell, the USA is not an empty shell. Militarily nobody can invade the USA without losing most of their military, and retaliatory strikes by Naval and foreign based forces on their homeland. The USA is as impregnable as a Nation can become against large scale military invasion.

Nobody snickers at the idea of an invasion force, it is taken very seriously and the reason we have defense nets in the oceans and skies, and large parts of US strike forces can be battle ready within a day.
but the fact remains There is no strategic advantage losing most of your military attempting to invade the USA, it is just a matter of numbers.

Conquering a nation does not require invasions or flags..the claim to a nation today is thru its economic system. where does the money flow? the USA is paying tribute to a Banking system in Europe and Asia. It is being conquered a little bit each month, the trade deficit is evidence of this. The debt ceiling is evidence of this...the fact we are about to print hundreds of billions of dollars and pay the feds for the right to do this is evidence...there is no strategic advantage to invade. The strategy lies in continuing to lend the USA money and recieve interest.

Bankers could care less what flag flies over what country, as long as they control the interest rates and economy. Why would they want to kill the golden goose..?
Follow the money.

McCain used a makeup artist Tiffany White and has paid her approx $5830. Gosh. Who is an elitist? I don't even spend %5830/year on clothing for me or my family.

Conservative ideology: Excess is good for me but you can die a miserable death in the cold and on a street as long as you stay off my grass!

Solution:

Don't bail out the businesses. Bail out the home owners who are getting socked on those high credit card bills, mostly expanded by the high gas and oil and food prices. And give a scholarship for the homes of all these people who got caught in the housing credit de-regulation crap.

Invest in US not in failing corporations.

Sparrow, Lou Dobbs apparently has been making the same point. Why not help the people who can't pay their mortgages?

Excellent Video, a definite watch

Maddow: Bush extending Iraq war for political reasons

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Maddow_Bush_extending_Iraq_war_for_0924.html

Good that Dobbs made the same point. Odd that we agree on so much but on other things we differ just as much!

In fact, wasn't it Dobbs caring the Obama waffles for his wife? Um....wonder if Dobbs is still planing on supporting McBush/PAlChenyIN now.

Sparrow, Matthew (and Lou?)

I wondered the same thing. If we just gave all the people who are under foreclosure enough money to pay off their mortgage, wouldn't that still be way less than a trillion dollars?

If I use the figures 1.3 million for the number of houses in foreclosure (heard that on NPR), and $350,000 as the avg. price of a home (in MA, anyway), I get $455 billion.

That's a lot less than the proposed bailout and the already bailed out.

I know that is oversimplified, but..... anything other than that I think Wall Street needs to eat.

Meanwhile - did I really just say that? No - I don't think we should give them that much money. I really meant I just don't know where they get the figure or how they justify it.

Let the markets do their job.

Carol,

Even if we paid off everyone's home and credit of those currently in distressed, and then we paid 10%-50% of those not in distressed but still making less than 99,000/year, we'd still pay less than what they want to do to bail out the big corps.

Wow - read this:

Dirty Little Secret of the Bailout: Thirty-two words that none dare utter:

"Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/22/dirty-secret-of-the-bailo_n_128294.html

This is why I have heard it said that this would give Paulson more power than the President.

Holy CRAP.

Hmmmm....

And Bush whose approval rating is less than a postage stamp, the same guy who has less trust in this Nation than any other person, and who has been at the helm of THREE DISASTERS in this country thinks that he's going to go on TEEVEE and sell us up the river again?!!

Please God...say it ain't so!

It's no wonder McBush picked Palin as a running mate. After all, in 2004 we saw they were not afraid to use anti-gay feelings to get votes. And in 2006, they hated immigrants.

So it's a perfect fit for him to have chosen Palin who didn't hesitate to use an antisemitic whisper campaign against the incumbent mayor whose name ends with Stein.

The mayor of Wasilla before Sarah Palin, John C. Stein, was also a Republican, though the office was and continues to be non-partisan. Mayor Stein was defeated by Sarah Palin in a campaign that brought in the NRA, Republican partisans, and various dirty tricks, including a possible whisper campaign that Mayor Stein was Jewish (he is a Christian, but is "proud of such a reputation"). He now runs the Sitka Sound Science Center, a marine research facility in Sitka, Alaska.

Ok. I want to know if we can sue any of those companies or any Congressman who de-regulated those businesses?

toolmaker and Christy

I can tell you that the South Koreans know a great deal about destroying America through "peaceful" economic and political means, instead of firepower. (As you said, NO ONE destroys America through firepower. It simply can't be done.)

Seoul sent Reverend Moon to the US as its agent. Through Moon, Seoul encouraged destructive policies and behavior among Americans, in the name of "strengthening defense and restoring Christian morals." In other words, Seoul made Americans destroy themselves with their own hands.

And this cabal of destructive barbarians that currently run the Seoul government still dares to call itself "pro-American," and both South Korean and international media refer to it that way. What a disgrace!

I just want to say that I wouldn't vote for a person just because they were Jewish or just because they converted from Judiism to Christianity or if they converted from Christianity to Judiasm. So I sure don't understand why people vote for someone for their religion.

The fact is that good people and bad people exist in all religions. Lieberman is an example of that. He's become a war monger. He's left the values that I believe in. And his wife is also a lobbyist. And his closeness to Bush and McBush is the final straw.

I would never vote for him because he's Jewish. Not only are his ideas different from mine, even though some ideas might be the same, but his personal integrity by backstabbing us (Alito filibuster and other votes) and allowing his wife to abuse the power of HIS office by lobbying with his co-workers...well, I don't vote for scum. I vote for people who try to do right rather than knowingly do wrong.

Palin may wear her Christian badge but her deeds are exceedingly anti-Christ-like.

She surrounds herself with abuses of power, with revenge, hate, and greed. I believe those are called, "The seven deadly sins..." and she breaks many of the 10 commandments and all of Jesus's commandments; Feed the poor, turn the other cheek...

How can one even vote for someone so lacking in integrity and compassion. The very traits that Jesus wanted his followers to instill in themselves? It's not a matter of failure once or twice. This is her pattern.

Pretty is as pretty does. She ain't pretty. Christian is as Christian does...she doesn't do Christian either. All talk..no action.

YOU SAID WHAT?

In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy.

“It’s not based on any particular data point,” a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. “We just wanted to choose a really large number.”

http://thinkprogress.org/

WHAT???

WHAT!?

WHY IS NO ONE ARRESTING THESE THIEVING BASTARDS?!!!!

IF THEY CAN NOT BE ARRESTED THEN THEY SHOULD BE PITCHFORKED!

I CAN'T STOP FREAKING SCREAMING!

Christy

I hear ya ! (and I'm two states over !)

I too have been a real bear lately because I cannot believe what is happening to our country(just ask Sparrow). .
America needs change - not more of the McSame.

not quite NoveScotiaJohn (yet)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/24/222928/602/683/609527

friend of mine is looking to buy this in Nova Scotia:

McCain/Palin - witness tampering in Alaska?
That's a felony.

Felony?

Nope. Not to them. Bush, Cheney, and the Mafia-members of this admin and this Congress on the Republican side mostly have proven that felony-smelony. They are above the law.

And people will still pretend to themselves that they're even worthy of a vote instead of 10-20 in jail like we'd get if it were us.

Op-Ed Contributor
The Power of Negative Thinking
By BARBARA EHRENREICH

GREED — and its crafty sibling, speculation — are the designated culprits for the financial crisis. But another, much admired, habit of mind should get its share of the blame: the delusional optimism of mainstream, all-American, positive thinking.

As promoted by Oprah Winfrey, scores of megachurch pastors and an endless flow of self-help best sellers, the idea is to firmly believe that you will get what you want, not only because it will make you feel better to do so, but because “visualizing” something — ardently and with concentration — actually makes it happen. You will be able to pay that adjustable-rate mortgage or, at the other end of the transaction, turn thousands of bad mortgages into giga-profits if only you believe that you can.

Positive thinking is endemic to American culture — from weight loss programs to cancer support groups — and in the last two decades it has put down deep roots in the corporate world as well. Everyone knows that you won’t get a job paying more than $15 an hour unless you’re a “positive person,” and no one becomes a chief executive by issuing warnings of possible disaster.

The tomes in airport bookstores’ business sections warn against “negativity” and advise the reader to be at all times upbeat, optimistic, brimming with confidence. It’s a message companies relentlessly reinforced — treating their white-collar employees to manic motivational speakers and revival-like motivational events, while sending the top guys off to exotic locales to get pumped by the likes of Tony Robbins and other success gurus. Those who failed to get with the program would be subjected to personal “coaching” or shown the door.

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/opinion/24ehrenreich.html

Great letter, Karen. I've seen lots like it. They come from Nigeria, Togo and a few other African countries. And people do send little bits of money over years and give all banking details asked for above.

Honestly, this is as criminal as any of those scam letters coming out of Africa.

Jon Stewart - Debt to America - I couldn't get it to embed

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=185195&title=Debt-to-America!

(As you said, NO ONE destroys America through firepower. It simply can't be done.)

Yeah, so I keep hearing. Yet, I still have yet to hear WHY it is impossible.

NATO? No one has undermined NATO more than WE have. Lose most of their army... yes, for sure. But China has a reserve army alone of over 100 MILLION soldiers strong.

It is only impossible until certain domestic, logistical and geopolitical conditions set a certain number of events into action all at once.

And ALL of those things are now in play.

It CAN'T be done...? Of course it can. Our own belief it CAN NOT will most likly be the reason we never see it coming.

And when they come, they will say the same things we all said when routing Hitler. 'We are saving the world! We are ridding the world of tyranny! Strike the evil in it's nest before it spreads across the earth!'

And... they would be right.

A firm belief it CAN NOT happen does not negate the fact that it WILL happen. The first real chance SOMEBODY gets, they will take it.

No empire lasts, we all fall down. Are pushed down. Beaten down. Broken up and divided amongst those strong enough to hold it.

No one is Untouchable. Not even US Citizens.

When you say it can't happen, it won't, it is impossible, it will NEVER happen...Do you realize the law of averages you are betting against?

History has a 100% casualty rate. For men and empires.

100%

Hmmmm....if you're in favor of open government and people with integrity serving in government (and being open to share what they've done) then you're not going to like the latest from the Palin camp.

She refuses to release her taxes until AFTER the debate with Biden. What is she hiding? Why is she afraid to have millions more viewers hearing or seeing her taxes prior to the debate.

Attention spans are small. True. But clearly she's going for a smaller audience too.

Link

How will China Move 100 Million soldiers to the USA..? How will China feed 100 Million, the food alone would require all Ships in the world just to transport their meals.
Logistics dont allow for moving 100 Million, or 10 million, or 1 million. It cannot be done without the equivalent of waving a giant red flag ( no pun intended) and screaming we are about to invade you. The USA would not sit and wait for an invasion force to launch, there are proactive doctrines in place ( ala IRAQ) that would be triggered, and the battle would be taken to them.

There is no method to organize an invasion force that can successfully complete the task of conquering the USA, there are large oceans on each side. Each ocean has massive sonar nets that do nothing but listen and identify any ship crossing them.
There are very large arrayed radar systems in Canada, Alaska, Hawaii, and certain South American Nations that do nothing but watch the skies. There are dozens of satellites that sit permanently over china, russia, venezuela, iran, iraq, N.korea and send streaming video of anything that moves bigger than breadbox.

The American Empire will fall, from the inside out. If the present fiscal policy continues the current generation will see it collapse.
We have met the enemy, and it is us.

I have been trying over and over to get ahold of Congress. Nobody is picking up!

Senator McCain has ducked out of the first debate with Senator Obama...and tried to take the VP debate slot in its place...what a bonehead move.
The McCain Campaign is unraveling, its all too much for the McCain/Palin team.

Nobody picking up the phone for me either. Theiving bastards.

As far as 100 million soldiers go. That is just the Chinese RESERVES. That is 100 million extra, just in case.

But, we will not be fighting Chinese face to face. They are someone elses reserves. Chavez. the Chinese are not only giving him money, they are giving him weaponry, equipment, and technology. Russia is doing the same for him. But we won't be directly fighting Russians either.

If Chavez wants, he can command almost all of the countries of South America to supply him with troops, ports, and ships. They all freaking hate us. With good reason. It will be them that we will be fighting, a united Latin America.

And he has enough resources down there to build almost endless fleets and enough oil to keep them all floating. Indefinately.

The population of South America is almost identical to the population of North America, but they still have better natural resources than we do. From sea to shining sea, and then some.

The population of Central America will also stand with him, add another 40 million to his numbers and he will have a land bridge right up into our belly.

I don't know if any of yall noticed this, but average Mexicans tend to HATE US and they still want Texas back. Who among our allies would step between us and Mexico...Latin America...? None of them.

If the Russians allow them too, and they will allow Chavez, they can also invade from the North. Sure the Canadians would protest but once England is paid off enough there will be no consequences for knocking them down to get to us.

We could just engage in thermonuclear war but, what would we hit exactly? Anywhere we hit to try to stop it is hitting OURSELVES.

And, who, even US Citizens, are willing to engage in a global nuclear war and kill all of mankind to keep one single nation from falling?

The American Empire. Which American Empire?

Latin America, IS America. And the US Empire will fall as certainly as Montezuma did. He also never saw it coming. Niether did Priam, King of Troy.

There is no such thing as an unsinkable ship.

The NY Times has a comments section for their latest story on the Bailout agreement, where various posters are calling for a revolution!

WTF is wrong with mcPOWs eye?

Seriously...what the hell...? Look

http://static.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/mccain-eye.jpg

Christy,

I heard about that eye thing.

Looks to me like he had a stroke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbD62gNi9WE

Christy - to me, it's a stroke - yes sparrow - I agree. Shit! It's almost a certainty that Palin will be president. Obama and Biden must NOT lose - this is a far more dangerous time and situation than 2004.

I see this as a far better alliance than invading other lands and killing people. I'm not sure about carbon capture and storage. Sounds too iffy to me - kind of like storing nuclear waste underground on a planet that throws us all around during earthquakes and tsunamis. HOWEVER, I do like this partnership and we can both contribute a lot to the program.

Rudd joins Clinton in push for climate control
Michelle Grattan, New York
September 26, 2008

AUSTRALIA is tapping into Bill Clinton's Climate Initiative as part of Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's international push on climate change.

A week after Mr Rudd announced his proposed Global Carbon Capture and Storage Institute to make Australia the "to go" place on carbon technologies, he has signed a memorandum of understanding with the Clinton Climate Initiative of the William J. Clinton Foundation.

Australia and the foundation will collaborate on deploying carbon capture and storage technology to large-scale projects, encouraging big solar power generation in Australia, and designing policies to improve energy efficiency.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/rudd-joins-clinton-in-push-for-climate-control-20080925-4o4l.html

Wow! Anybody else see the DFA ad that was just aired during Hardball?

Hardball, indeed!

I just saw that ad Matthew and found this one there. This is VERY good news and not at all surprising. But I don't know if it's an authentic piece of information or just invented.

And they are all just one big happy family.

Happy Happy Happy Happy!

Moscow announced a billion-dollar loan to Venezuela to buy arms on Thursday amid Cold-War style tensions with Washington and ahead of a visit by the country's fiercely anti-US President Hugo Chavez.

Chavez was scheduled to meet Prime Minister Vladimir Putin at 1600 GMT at his residence near Moscow, then travel to the Ural Mountains city of Orenburg to meet President Dmitry Medvedev on Friday, officials said.

The trip, expected to focus on military cooperation and trade, is Chavez's third visit to Moscow since June 2007 and comes three days after Russia sent a massive naval fleet to the Caribbean for joint exercises with Venezuela.

In the latest sign of closer ties, a Kremlin source said Thursday that Russia had granted Venezuela the one-billion dollar (682-million euro) loan to Venezuela to buy Russian arms.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Chavez_to_meet_Putin_as_Russia_give_09252008.html

OUCH!

Umm. Not good.

UNITED NATIONS, Sep 24 (IPS) - Bolivian President Evo Morales reiterated the charge Tuesday that the U.S. government was plotting to overthrow his government and that Washington had a hand in the recent episodes of violence in which a number of his supporters were killed and wounded by opposition gangs.

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=43985

I really hope that I am wrong about Latin America.

WaMu is WaAway - shut down and sold to Chase.
Just another in a Looong list of failures during this administration.

And, just like a fish - it stinks from the head down.

Some people in this country just ain't right ..

http://www.silencedmajority.blogs.com

McCain's eye droop - said to be Bell's palsy so a peripheral nerve - wouldn't affect his judgement.

HOWEVER, if it was a stroke it would be left face/right hemisphere - should not affect speech but should affect memory, judgment, perception.

Hey Oncall, doesn't melanoma invade the eyeballs when it metastasizes? Would it cause that kind of eye drooping he is showing?

And if it did metastasize, doen't that mean death within just months?