Four Years Ago...

To continue from the other thread, I've tried a couple of aspirin - but I probably need a drink at this point.

Can you believe that clown who pushing the idea of "country first" is willing to utterly smear his opponent, and potential inspire violence against him - all in the name of winning, so that the likes of Phil Gramm can continue to negatively impact our economy (since we all know that McCain is clueless when it comes to these things, as he himself admits)?

Matthew,
No I can't.

It should be interesting which McCain shows up.

there's two things i'd like to see Obama do tonight.

1. Ask for Mccain to apologize for calling him a terrorist.

2. Demand that McCain ask his supporters to refrain from making threats of violence again him or other journalists and that they should ask for their supporters to be the best that we can be not worst.

This a town hall format so probably little back and forth between them.

McCain is already avoiding the question.

He is literally, side stepping...

Well, that mortgage proposal came out of nowhere...that's a pretty good proposal. Of course, the conservatives will hate it.

I am not listening so much, just watching.

Has McCain looked at Obama yet?

No, oncall, sort of a general glance.
McCain is walking the walk. Or A walk anyway. It's an awkward walk.

OMG when does Brokaw let Obama talk?

Brokaw is awful and deserves to be given the hook.

I really like the way Obama effortlessly moves his arms and head when he is talking to the audience. Very graceful. McCain is a lurcher.

Obama starts slowly and has to find his way. McCain starts clear and then wanders and repeats himself.

Good evening. Nothing surprising yet, but speaking to the respective body language, will someone please take the coat hangar out of John's suit!

McCain's blink rate seems very high. Obama's seems WNL. Any thoughts?

I am honoring the FDR era and following by radio only.

Since I can only listen not watch (at the moment), my observation is that Obama does ease into it and McCain does wander from topic and basically bullshits. He uses "My Friends" dozens of times and tries to channel Ronald Reagan, speaking softly to hide his anger issue.

Did he just say "Let's put health records on line?"

I think this will again be a debate that doesn't change the polls.

McCain just said he may need hair transplants ..

Why is McCain nervous about government mandates to have health care but comfortable with government mandates forbidding certain health care decisions by individuals?

Where's Mac getting this stuff about healthcare fines & mandates?

According to DKos I'm missing lizard-like tongue movements of McCain. Spare me.

Obama is as usual more logical. Brokaw is calling him out on time again.

No you're not slugbug, McCain is doing well at the beginning, but he starts repeating himself.

I am not seeing lizard tongues, but I am seeing deception.

At least he doesn't have a prompt-box strapped to his back...

Did you all hear McCain call Obama "That One"? How rude!

Now he's bullshitting about foreign policy. He's like a cut-rate Reagan, bargain basement. That is one of the biggest insults I can think of.

"in his short career"

"My friend" again - I can't WAIT to know how many times he said that - I can't WAIT to see them all spliced together

Obama- "It's true .. there ARE some things I don't understand .. " - good entry. Good comeback about McCain's judgment. Good here.

Obama is starting to debate well here. I'm glad people in other countries are no doubt watching.

I don't see how McCain can even answer on these charges that have to do with Bush because McCain is so bogus when he tries to distance himself from Bush.

Sounds like they are asking about humanitarian and peacekeeping when not frank national security - moral issues - right answer - goes to Holocaust - brilliant!

I am starting to think Obama is really strong on foreign policy - maybe not in office as long as McCain but a very quick study, smarter and more alert. McCain is losing it.

I wish they would ask whether they support the Bush Doctrine, like Palin was asked.

"My friends" again - "dangerous" - their idol General Petraeus - "My friends" - what a senile old fart. I hope Brokaw is holding up better than McCain (Brokaw spoke at my college graduation 22 years ago.)

October 7, 2008 9:49 PM
Michelan Sisti said:

Good evening. Nothing surprising yet, but speaking to the respective body language, will someone please take the coat hangar out of John's suit!
***

He is somehow still in the tiger cage, I think. And yet, he shifts side to side and wanders, not knowing where to look.

Something I don't like on either side-- X voted for/against (fill in blank-- tax increases, supplies for troops, etc) 500 times... who knows what was in all those bills or what the person was voting for or against in those bills-- it's much too complex to have any kind of meaning. Pugs tend to use it more-

"President Reagan .. my hero" - puke

Aaaaaccckkkkk!!!!
"like my hero, Ronald Regan"

McCain speaks in cliches. It embarrasses me to listen to him. He's one of those old men that you have to let blab on as they monologue, prop themselves up, have false recollections, delusions of grandeur, memory lapses so repeat themselves, word finding problems etc.

Obama is one of the only people who pronounces county and organizational names properly.

McCain's hero has now changed to Teddy Roosevelt.

At least M's face isn't frozen into Palin's perpetual smirk

Brokaw's voice sounds bad - a cold? smoke and drink? I don't know but it bothers me.

McCain is doing modern version of the "Red Scare"

Obama wouldn't let the yes/no evil empire question box him in. McCain copied

hmmmm... Obama not so great on the "What don't you know?" question... let's see what M does with it

McCain punted it too

Format led to something closer to an actual debate than the average prez debate... a little more give & take...

I missed McCain calling Obama "that one"... how did it come about?

I just got home. Is it done?

Somebody on CSPAN just mentioned other candidates... Nader... is he running??? At least he won't be a vote siphon this time.

aimzz, yeah, he's running in some states. Republicans probably got him on the ballot. But on the Republican side you've got Barr and Paul. So here's hoping they don't vote for McCain/Pain

I thought the debate was pretty predictable but I just had a call from a guy I have never met - Kayakbiker's friend from here from years ago - a had-been-drinking carpenter who "doesn't even like Democrats" (he's an Independent and has only voted Democrat before to vote against Bush, who he didn't like either) - he kept repeating and repeating that McCain had "kicked Obama's ass." He then imitated McCain as huffing and puffing.

I don't know what it means or why he called me or even how he got my number except that maybe he is Joe Sixpack.

sparrow
I'm not worried about 3rd party folk this year-- peeps are too fed up now

knee-jerk polls on CNN --
50-60% Obama
mid 30's McCain

I'm not worried as far as nadar is concerned. Most people fighting are on the Republican ticket. It's the Dems who have the unity ticket--but the media sure played that up to the hilt.

This is from Chuck in Houston to Karen on body language:

In terms of body language, how do you factor in the fact that due to injuries McCain does not have full mobility in either arm? Or am I wrong in that? Maybe he does have full mobility but refuses to lift his arms above his shoulders?

Chuck in Houston

At least McCain did not throw a wink (unless, I missed it). Ya betchya

Chuck, I have a feeling that McCain purposely has his suits tailored so he is restricted. I know that sounds crazy, but it is a hunch.

Well, I didn't get to see it, but please tell me that McCain didn't say, "Drill baby drill".

This shocked me!

re: thread topic
redemptive moment for McCain: Not even close

CNN: Independents trending toward Obama

Oncall:

I see you see what I am saying -- the arms going up suddenly stop as if a poorly tailored (sp?) suit (or a bone/ligament problem) intervened.

Chuck

I think McCain's injuries did leave some permanent disability. Also he looks like he has some degree of osteoporosis (which I hesitate to bring up because I don't mean to inflame the age comments)

Aimzzz:

I never could understand what an "Independent" is anyway. I mean, there are two parties -- Democrat and Republican -- and one or the other is going to control either the legislative or the executive branch, and, thereby, over time. the judicial.

Chuck (Democrat) in Houston

Aimzzz:

Do you think McCain has osteoporosis? My mom does but she is 84.

Chuck in Houston

Chuck:
I know what you mean-- I guess they are referring to the 'undecided'

CNN comment-- McCain sprung the government mortgage buyback unexpectedly. They wonder if caused conservative eyes to bug out

I was disappointed by Obama's answer to the last question. Obama could have answered that he would surround himself with intelligence advisors and a cabinet that would give him a variety of perspectives in order to help him deal with unpredictable circumstances.

Chuck:
re. osteoporosis
I don't know-- maybe I shouldn't have mentioned it-- he has a bit of a hump, but it could have other causes

oncall:
re. last question-- me too. He rarely seems rattled by off-the-cuff questions, but he bobbled that one a bit...

October 7, 2008 11:24 PM
Chuck said:

This is from Chuck in Houston to Karen on body language:

In terms of body language, how do you factor in the fact that due to injuries McCain does not have full mobility in either arm? Or am I wrong in that? Maybe he does have full mobility but refuses to lift his arms above his shoulders?

Chuck in Houston
***

John McCain has serious osteoporosis from his injuries while in the prison in Vietnam. The prison was, for a time, at least, a cage. I often think he moves like he is still in that cage, which, metaphorically and emotionally, he well may be. His personal space size is quite restricted, and he is often unsteady on his feet, especially in unrestricted spaces (not behind a podium). He tends to grip the podium too, as if he needs boundaries. Tonight he leaned on the chair at times, especially towards the end.

Unfortunately for him, he was most unsteady and equivocal when he was describing his readiness to be commander-in-chief. At one point tonight, he actually backed up (backed down?).

He lost tonight, in part, on his inability to extend himself, which may be physical in origin, but translates into a narrow mindset, which he also enacts, over and over. The man is simply limited, and that is a problem.

I think the mortgage bailout was the most interesting "verbal" component of tonight's debate. Something like this will EVENTUALLY HAVE TO BE DONE. The problem, however, and it is a HUGE ONE, is that IMHO, we're nowhere near a bottom. So, if the government gives people new mortgages based on the 2009 value of their homes, they might still not be able to pay if the economy is headed where I expect it is - because prices may be headed far lower.

My baseline for real estate values is 1998-99 prices, adjusted for inflation. That's not fair value, but a baseline on how low things could go.

It's hard for me to judge these debates - since I'm such a partisan, and I have no clue how swing voters hear or see them.

My bias today is that Barak is the next President, but that the final vote will be much closer than these polls. One reason is race, but another is that the unpatriotic and profoundly un-American campaign that McCain and Palin are going to run against Obama over the next month will take it's toll.

Country first, my petunia. Rank ambition and lust for power first - that slogan is much, much closer to the truth about McCain campaign.

Oh, and Palin is the female Spiro Agnew. Let's hope her end is similar.

Today's Times Editorial, and my response:

October 8, 2008
Editorial
Politics of Attack

It is a sorry fact of American political life that campaigns get ugly, often in their final weeks. But Senator John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin have been running one of the most appalling campaigns we can remember.

They have gone far beyond the usual fare of quotes taken out of context and distortions of an opponent’s record — into the dark territory of race-baiting and xenophobia. Senator Barack Obama has taken some cheap shots at Mr. McCain, but there is no comparison.

Despite the occasional slip (referring to Mr. Obama’s “cronies” and calling him “that one”), Mr. McCain tried to take a higher road in Tuesday night’s presidential debate. It was hard to keep track of the number of time he referred to his audience as “my friends.” But apart from promising to buy up troubled mortgages as president, he offered no real answers for how he plans to solve the country’s deep economic crisis. He is unable or unwilling to admit that the Republican assault on regulation was to blame.

Ninety minutes of forced cordiality did not erase the dismal ugliness of his campaign in recent weeks, nor did it leave us with much hope that he would not just return to the same dismal ugliness on Wednesday.

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/08/opinion/08wed1.html

Thank you for this editorial. The Times said exactly what many of us have been feeling.

McCain’s campaign has become profoundly ugly - but in an all too characteristically American way. My response to hearing Palin’s disgusting attempts to paint Obama as a terrorist sympathizer is to remind everyone that in some parts of this country, terrorism is as American as revivalist religion, barbecue and apple pie.

Lest anyone forget, the White Knights of the Klu Klux Klan were terrorists. Terrorism was the weapon of choice of white supremacists in America for at least one hundred years. These terrorists were so emboldened, so accepted by mainstream society, that over one million of them proudly marched down Pennsylvania Avenue in the early 1920s. When they murdered African-Americans leaders, local juries sprung them time and again – refusing to convict these terrorists, and becoming every bit an accomplice to their despicable crimes.

So, yes Sarah Palin, terrorism is as American as revivalist religion, barbecue and apple pie. And the party of Willie Horton, the Confederate Flag, and Louis Powell’s Southern Strategy is in no position whatsoever to be accusing anyone else of having acquaintances with terrorists.

debate analysis on front page.

It takes a certain audacity (or something) to propose a multi-billion mortgage bailout & within a few minutes, accuse Obama of wanting government in everything (not to mention attacks on how Obama would pay for his proposals)

"That one"

The OBAMA THEME SONG / A Better America

Watch all these videos. (I insist.) ;-)

And from Votevets

Chicago's Cook County won't evict in foreclosures
By DON BABWIN – 2 hours ago

CHICAGO (AP) — The sheriff here said Wednesday that he's ordering his deputies to stop evicting people from foreclosed properties because many people his office has helped throw out on the street are renters who did nothing wrong.

"We will no longer be a party to something that's so unjust," a visibly angry Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart said at a news conference.

"We have to be sure that when we are doing this — and we are destroying some people's lives — we better be darned sure we're talking about the right people," Dart said.

Dart said he believes he's the first sheriff in a major metropolitan area to stop participating in foreclosure evictions, and the publisher of a national foreclosure database said he's probably right.

"I haven't heard of any other sheriff unilaterally deciding to stop foreclosures," said Rick Sharga, senior vice president of the Irvine, Calif.-based RealtyTrac, Inc. He said the sheriff in Philadelphia helped push a moratorium on foreclosure sales, but that involved owner-occupied homes and not renters.

Dart said that from now on, banks will have to present his office with a court affidavit that proves the home's occupant is either the owner or has been properly notified of the foreclosure proceedings.

Illinois law requires that renters be notified that their residence is in foreclosure and they will be evicted in 120 days, but Dart indicated that the law has been routinely ignored.

He talked about tenants who dutifully pay their rent, then leave one morning for work only to have authorities evict them and put their belongings on the curb while they are gone.

By the time they get home, "The meager possessions they have are gone," he said. "This is happening too often."

In many cases, he said, tenants aren't even aware that their homes have fallen into foreclosure.

This week, an attorney asked that Dart be held in contempt when his deputies did not evict tenants after determining they were not the owners and did not know about their landlord's financial problems.

A judge denied the attorney's request, Dart's office said, and Dart said that after talking to the Cook County state's attorney's office, he is confident he is on solid legal ground.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gWQSAw_s2aqqnJS5Ib0-PbD24H5gD93MJAO00

OCTOBER 8--Angered by a delay in the receipt of his voter registration card, a Louisiana man today threatened election officials, claiming that he urgently needed to cast a ballot to "keep the nigger out of office," according to police. Wade Williams, 75, was arrested this morning on a felony terrorizing charge after allegedly calling the Registrar of Voters and warning that he would come to the state office and empty his shotgun unless he got his registration card. Using profanity and racial slurs, Williams told a state official "about needing to vote to 'keep the nigger out of office,"

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1008082voter1.html

Excuse me for being so behind, but I missed the 1st debate & am just now listening on CSPAN. McCain just said that Obama has THE MOST LIBERAL voting record in the Senate. Doesn't say what he means by liberal-- could be anything. He's also talking alot about "pork barrel" spending... again no definition. Yeah, spending abuses abound, but sometimes one man's pork another man's bread. Who knows what he meansby prok...
Sorry for the flashback...

Gacccckkkkkk!!!
I'm only 30 minutes into it--- is it worth hanging in to the end???

Yeh. probably worth it Aimzz.

Republican buzz words & hot buttons efforts are beyond hackneyed... zzzzzzz
Obama not only brings fresh ideas but it's hard to ignore his ability to think on his feet. Also he declines to be boxed into Pug-created labels

"An increasingly frantic Republican party, which has watched Barack Obama restore a strong lead since the latest phase of the financial meltdown struck in September, has indicated that it plans to "take off the gloves" - in the words of Sarah Palin, Mr McCain's running mate - by questioning Mr Obama's patriotism."

Obama lead forces McCain on to attack
07-Oct
Financil Times (UK)
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e88b9922-9407-11dd-b277-0000779fd18c.html

Durn liberal media...

Newsweek found itself at the center of a controversy on Wednesday, after choosing to run a photo of vice presidential hopeful Sarah Palin on its latest cover, that appears not to have been retouched.

After the cover went public, Fox News’ Megyn Kelly, host of “America’s Newsroom,” was one of the first to draw light to the photograph, which shows the 44-year-old Alaskan governor up close, allowing readers to see a reportedly unedited version of Palin.

“This cover is a clear slap in the face at Sarah Palin,” Andrea Tantaros, a Republican political and media commentator said on the show. “Why? Because it’s unretouched. It highlights every imperfection that every human being has. We’re talking unwanted facial hair, pores, wrinkles.”

Newsweek Under Fire For Sarah Palin Cover
http://www.accesshollywood.com/_article_11600

disclaimer-- I'm not into Hollywood sites but came across the headline in Google news ;p

Poll to freep - even if you usually don't
http://timescolumns.typepad.com/gledhill/2008/10/is-sarah-palin.html
Who is the best Christian?

PS It's British!

Michelle Obama on Larry King Live

Sorry guys wrong video

King Interview of Michelle Obama, Pt. 1

King Interview of Michelle Obama, Pt. 2

Michelle Obama Interview w. Larry King - 3 of 4

Michelle Obama interview w. Larry King - 4 of 4

OMFG! Just WATCH!

McCain-Palin Rally Attendees: "Obama Is A Terrorist"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/09/mccain-palin-rally-attend_n_133240.html

Go take this poll.

http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html

Good quote below, but what commentator said that Sarah Palin is like a cross between Chauncey Gardiner and the woman cop in Fargo?

I'm having a hard time understanding why it's perfectly acceptable for the media to put out all the innuendos and crap about Obama's "palling around with terrorists" but THIS is hidden from public view - till when - till after the election?

Sensitive Palin Ethics Report Kept Secret, for Now

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=5999928

Start sending out this video to everyone. About 6 minutes in the truth pops out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxDKQgyQ8UE&feature=related

Princess Sarah Sparkles is a successionist!

Good Nation Poll, I think, check out results

VOTE EVERY TIME YOU GET A CUP OF COFFEE

EVERY CUP COUNTS!!!!!!!

http://www.7-eleven.com/

They're so scared they've gone rabid...

I know you all have this in your email - but it makes me smile, laugh and cry with sheer love for the America that we are all hoping can emerge from the quagmire of slime. I love this.....

McCain and Palin are leading the KKK unmasked. How utterly disgusting they are. And surely those who were serious about thinking they were good people are having second thoughts. The noisy murdering, bigoted racists are the ones who will lose McCain more votes than ever. Even his own misguided fans will not approve of this new KKK behaviour.

We had a politician like that. Leader of a KKKtype Party. She was a hit for a few years amongst our worst citizens. She ended up in jail. She has become so forgettable images are only brought out now and then to remind us how ugly some Australians are.

Hopefully this will happen to McCain and Palin.

Their ads are about who they are, not who Obama is. I hope people see it.

...hope they're right

"The McCain campaign has also released a new television ad that accuses Obama of lying to cover up his links with Ayers. Many political experts question whether McCain's strategy of attacking Obama's character will have much of an impact in the midst of a financial crisis.

Larry Sabato directs the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. "They will be determined on the basis of those big issues, especially the ones bundled with the economy," he said. "That is what will determine this election no matter how many charges are made back and forth about William Ayers or the Keating Five or all the rest of it. These are almost irrelevancies."

The continuing focus on the economy seems to be helping Obama and hurting McCain in public opinion polls."

Obama Responds To McCain Character Attacks
http://voanews.com/english/2008-10-10-voa54.cfm

New thread.

Hold till after the election so it won't distract from their assault on Obama?

"Palin and McCain's supporters had hoped the inquiry's finding would be delayed until after the presidential election to spare her any embarrassment and to put aside an enduring distraction as she campaigns as McCain's running mate in an uphill contest against Democrat Barack Obama."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/10/lawmakers-emerge-from-ses_n_133800.html