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It's STILL the Torture, Stupid...
My colleague Dr. Martha Davis has been working tirelessly to combat torture and the sanctioning of it by the American Psychological Association. She created a documentary hich is not only worth your time to watch, but is worth sharing with your family and friends. Just because there is hope does not mean we can go back to sleep and pretend it isn't happening anymore. FISA etc...remember?
Interrogation Psychologists: The Making of a Professional Crisis
This is a guest post which highlights the documentary video “Interrogation Psychologists: The Making of a Professional Crisis” directed by colleague and friend Martha Davis PhD. Dr. Davis is a Clinical Psychologist and a Visiting Scholar at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City. She is an expert in the detection of deception, and has published numerous articles and books on non-verbal communication research. The “Interrogation Psychologists: The Making of a Professional Crisis” premiered at the conference entitled “The Interrogation and Torture Controversy: Crisis in Psychology” held at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, Center on Terrorism in New York City on September 12, 2008.
Quoting from Dr. Davis:
“In 2005 the American Psychological Association endorsed the participation of military psychologists in detainee interrogations. This policy incited a firestorm of protest within the profession and around the world, but APA officials held fast, contending that the involvement of psychologists insured that interrogations were safe, ethical and effective. With interviews of experts and documentation of communications between APA and government officials, “Interrogation Psychologists” traces the origins of the policy and why the APA risked massive defections for it. The search leads to the emerging field of national security psychology, which has far-reaching implications for intelligence gathering operations and U.S. treatment of prisoners of war.”
WATCH THE VIDEO HERE
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It's just too horrible to contemplate. I wonder about the men (and women) who inflict these procedures. And others who support them. I am so relieved they are not my children. But they are somebody's children. And they will suffer the guilt of their actions for the whole of their lives. Their victims aren't the only ones torn apart. With every action that psychologists and psychiatrists condone, they must surely impact on their consciences too.
We've been saying this for years.
Spy chief condemns 9/11 'overreaction'
Richard Norton-Taylor, London
October 19, 2008
Out of the shadows: Dame Stella Rimington, former head of MI5, abhors the politicisation of the war on terror.
A FORMER head of Britain's security service, MI5, yesterday described the response to the September 11, 2001, attacks on the US as a "huge overreaction" and said the invasion of Iraq influenced young men in Britain who turned to terrorism.
In an interview, Dame Stella Rimington called al-Qaeda's attack on the US "another terrorist incident" but not qualitatively different from any others.
"That's not how it struck me. I suppose I'd lived with terrorist events for a good part of my working life and this was, as far as I was concerned, another one," she said.
In common with Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller, who retired as MI5's director general last year, Dame Stella, who left 12 years ago, has already made it clear she abhorred "war on terror" rhetoric and the British Government's abandoned plans to hold terrorism suspects for 42 days without charge.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/spy-chief-condemns-911-overreaction-20081018-53n2.html
Interrogations at GITMO...
Imprisoned since 2001, 2002, 2003... ie. 5 to 7 years of continual interrogation with no outside-world contact... obviously there is no further "intelligence" to extract from these detainees. The video leads to the question: guinea pigs for psychological study of interrogation techniques?
Accountability: 2003 & 2004 memos
Any word on who signed the Bush admin memos authorizing torture? Were both signed be the same person/persons? Surely official letterhead is not enough... It doesn't sound like Tenent would accept the signature of a sacrificial underling.
Apparently the decisions came from "a series of private briefings about the program with members of the administration's security team, including Rice and Cheney, followed by more formal meetings before a larger group including then-Attorney General John D. Ashcroft, then-White House counsel Alberto R. Gonzales and then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. None of the officials recalled President Bush being present at any of the discussions."
Are all of the above legally accountable for the decision if all didn't sign. Since nobody "recalls" Bush at the meetings, does he sleaze out again?
Finally, who will Bush pardon on his last day? Are Ford-like preemptive pardons still legal? Surely Bush couldn't pardon himself...
Are there any limits on which crimes a president can pardon?
CIA Tactics Endorsed In Secret Memos
Thousands Face Mix-Ups In Voter Registrations
In Alabama, the centralized system triggered a new controversy over a constitutional ban on voting by people convicted of a felony crime of "moral turpitude." The governor's office in the past year issued a list of 480 crimes that meet the definition, including disrupting a funeral and conspiring to set an illegal brush fire.
Thousands Face Mix-Ups In Voter Registrations
Among those wrongly flagged by the database was former Republican governor Guy Hunt, who was driven out of office in 1993 after being convicted of a felony ethics violation for misusing inaugural funds. But Hunt, 75, received a pardon that declared him innocent a decade ago.
"Well, he's voted ever since the pardon, so he sure shouldn't be on any list now," said Hunt's son, Keith, in a telephone interview.
You've gotta see this pic!!!
Scenes from the trail: '100,000′ in St. Louis for Obama
Colin Powell
I know we have not agreed with Powell on foreign policy, but he appears to have come to his sense - better late than never.
http://www.silencedmajority.blogs.com
Another angle... AWESOME!!!!
Obama Draws 100,000 in Missouri
Damn! It was a fake press release.
I got Rick Powelled! Well, we'll see tomorrow!
Slugbug, Colin Powell was the only person in the early days and years of this administration who seemed deeply uncomfortable at the lies he was *forced* to tell. I was not surprised that he dropped out into oblivion early.
I can forgive him *obeying orders*. He's a military man. He has not hurt my family. I feel there is much, much more to come from Colin Powell in the future and this recommendation holds great weight I believe.
Bugger! And they said that this was going to happen, didn't they. That Colin Powell would (all but) endorse Obama.
Well Powell is on MEET THE PRESS tomorrow and he still may do it.
If he doesn't I'm going to be very mad!
If he doesn't, then I take back my views above. The world deserves a little honesty from this man who supposedly wielded great power.
I thought Democrats could never match GOP corporate funding. Obama's blowing them out of the water & it's coming from the bottom up.
"I can forgive him *obeying orders*. He's a military man. He has not hurt my family. "
BS. And I will tell you why.
He was NOT... I repeat NOT acting as 'a soldier' nor was he an active 'military man' when he sold his soul before the UN. And even if he was military and just had to lie because he was ordered too... still BS because he of all people knows you do not accept illegal or immoral orders.
He was a good man once, before he helped lie over a million innocent people to their deaths. Whatever 'good' he was before that moment does not matter nor will it ever matter again. He does not deserve to be held up now as some kind of great man. He had the chance to be that, he willingly chose different.
He may not have hurt YOUR family, but he did hurt your countrymen by ginning up a reason to put them in harms way.
And, since he did so, he has not shown an ounce of remorse nor made ANY moves to correct the record. He has not gone on record a SINGLE TIME to tell us the truth of what did happen.
I used to believe the hype too. Powell is a 'hero' and a 'good man' and somehow more honest and worthy than others. And yet we all watched him betray our own nation.
So what they 'used him', his credibility, to prop up their fraudulant war case. So what they 'used him'. He allowed himself to be used.
If you lay down with dogs, then you are a DOG.
If Powell does endorse... If I were Obama, this is exactly what I would say...
"I really appreciate the endorsement, but perhaps Powell should use his time instead to tell the American people the truth of how we got into Iraq."
Colin Powell's heart is right. I believe him-- he was shocked and disgusted when he understood that BushCo fabricated evidence & overtly lied about Iraq. He has shown that he was horrified when he realized how they used him.
BTW, the AFP is saying that crowd was NOT 100,000 strong.
It was 175,000.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Obama_tells_175000_supporters_change_coming_1018.html
"He has shown that he was horrified when he realized how they used him."
When did he show that exactly?
And when has he EVER ONCE corrected the record and told us the truth of what really did happen then?
Frankly, I do not care he 'has a good heart' the road to hell is paved with good intentions and lined with the million dead he helped kill.
Obama's campaign used the St. Louis Police Department estimate of 100,000. Cool & understated...
The crowd looks bigger in the pics. Wow, 175,000
You know, Powell can spend the rest of his life telling everyone who will listen how shocked and disgusted he was at being used.
But the fact is he NEVER ONCE made any effort to stop it or end it once he did know how 'used' he was.
He made a 'mistake'... But instead of ever correcting the mistake, no, instead we are all supposed to blame others for the mistake he made, cause he was used and the poor poor man just had no power at all to stop what he willingly helped set in motion.
Poor poor Powell. He gets more sympathy than any of the 1 million dead he left behind, and yet it still is not enough, we also must forgive him too, even though his remorse is questionable and his restitution is so far non existant.
You know, there are very few people who could have single handedly stopped bush. Powell was one of them. He could have stopped it EVEN AFTER leaving public office. In one interview he could have stopped it by telling the truth.
And yet...nothing. As he hid out from history, the war went on and on and on and on... And he was SO disgusted and SO horrified he did NOTHING to stop it.
His guilt was SOOOO pressing and so profound, he did NOTHING except run his mouth to tell us how it wasn't his fault. He was so worried about what he helped start, he never once tried to stop it.
Powell will share the same spit in hell with pelosi when the devil gets them both.
Ok. Why I'm more with Christy's opinion on Powell...
He also STAYED in the Bush White House until just after the 2004 election when he left. Had he really felt remorse, he'd have left prior to 2004's election and said "Vote for Kerry."
After all, if he's such a man of integrity, then he would have done what is right!
He KNEW about the torture. HE KNEW how the troops were sent to war without proper equipment. And by then he KNEW Rummy, Condiliar, Bush, and Cheney were amoral, corrupt psychopaths. AND he KNEW they took their eyes of Osama.
AND he could have saved MILLIONS of lives by leaving the corrupt White House and supporting Kerry right at October 25th.
So I'm with Christy in this. He's a dog who simply is trying to redeem his own image now that it's tarnished and mangy.
Obama">http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/19/835/44503/456/635179">Obama Volunteer Physically Attacked by Angry Man
"Here in Caledonia, Wisconsin (near Racine) one of our volunteers was physically assaulted by an angry man. 58 year-old Nancy Takehara of Chicago told the story:
"The next thing I know he’s telling us we’re not his people, we’re probably with ACORN, and he started screaming and raving," Takehara said. "He grabbed me by the back of the neck. I thought he was going to rip my hair out of my head. He was pounding on my head and screaming. The man terrified me."
snip
Think about this. Where would this person have ever heard of ACORN? Why would he be so upset? Candidates like to say "elections have consequences." Well, election rhetoric also has consequences.
"This negative stuff has to stop," said Takehara. "We’re all Americans. This is all about protecting our democracy, not about attacking each other."
Here’s what totally freaks me out. If you read the comments on the newspaper article, you see the same hate rhetoric. And worse you see people giving energy to this hate speech by trying to argue in the comments.
And here is what gives me hope. By the time Nancy Takehara got home, there was a message waiting for her from Senator Obama. She called the number back and actually talked to Senator Obama.
~~~~
Christy
Maybe it's my heart wanting the old Colin Powell...
There's no doubt that his UN speech was instrumental in getting approval for the war.
My recollection was that he expressed huge regret for his role. Decided to look back after reading your posts. Clearly my 'memories' were based on what I wanted to see...
Here are items on a couple of interviews
Colin Powell on Iraq, Race, and Hurricane Relief (2005)
Powell Praises Obama, Fears Afghanistan Growing 'More Difficult' Than Iraq
-He doesn't blame BushCo for falsified information, but says "There were some people in the intelligence community who knew at that time that some of these sources were not good, and shouldn't be relied upon, and they didn't speak up. That devastated me,"
-He still supports the war, but not the way it's being done.
But on the plus side, he supports Obama while disagreeing with his views on the war.
Thanks for the reality check
That is right, I had forgotten that he did not resign until AFTER georgie was once again safely back in power with a rigged election.
The truth is Powell is a good enough man he is not afraid to apologize. He just can not tell you what exactly he is apologizing for.
Powell is more worried about being hanged as a WAR CRIMINAL than he is about making things right. He has had chance after chance after chance to make it right and he took NONE OF THEM.
If he would like to turn on them, spill it all, and redeem himself, I would not only forgive him, I would give my life to protect him.
But as it stands right now, I would not give a bucket of p*ss for his sorry presence.
Supporting Obama won't redeem Colin Powell, but it would put a damper on puke's desperate frenzy to radicalize Obama. If Powell actually does endorse, will discuss further. Otherwise, not much point
Aimzz, NP.
Powell is always presented in the best light possible by the press, because like with the 'maverick' mcmumbles, they already have a defined narrative for him. They already have words to define him, regardless of what the truth really is.
'He is a good man, a good man, a good man. A good man. a good man. Maybe a GREAT man but definately a good man' In spite of ANY evidence to the contrary.
They (the media) never present any evidence to the contrary. Even when the facts do directly oppose the narrative, he is simply given the benefit of the doubt, because he is 'a good man'.
Do you realize how much of a shield that is? The persistant rumor he is a 'good man' will shield him from virtually ALL scrutiny and all accountability.
Even as he committed atrocities, he was excused, because we all know what a 'good man' he is.
Who decided he was 'a good man'...? Good for WHOM exactly..?
The press will never change their narrative until they are forced to.
Media finally got it re. Bush, but too little & much too late
Finally a real endorsement -
http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/silenced_majority_portal/2008/10/is-this-a-real.html
Powell said some true things, with dignity. It was cool.
Going to see Biden in a bit.
I don't care for Powell that much normally.
I think this is worth it to avoid McCain, if it will help Obama win.
Then Obama won't be perfect but it has to be an improvement
over McCain or Bush.
I am very glad for the endorsement. Read why at my link.
(I would rewrite it but I have to run.)
Wilkerson was more repentant than Powell.
He was next man under Powell.
Of course, I never glorified Powell or Schwartzkopf during the Gulf War because I opposed that war.
By now, I know the US always seems to be in some kind of war, overt or covert, to protect "our interests" (rich man's oil - they'll tell us "freedom" or some such BS)
Powell was the "good soldier."
But his party isn't what it was. It was bad and now worse.
Plus he may have been offered a better job by Obama than McCain because McCain isn't even working on a transition team and Obama is. The Telegraph says Obama is even being transitioned by Bush because it's their view he could win.
(Not that I believe it for sure)
He takes on the R Congresswoman from MN that's creepy - that people sent 1/2 million to her opponent overnight - she is that creepy
Do yall really want Powell BACK in the government...?
Why would Obama even offer him a job? In case he needs to sell us another illegal war? What... he expects to be made Secretary of State...again...? OMFG!
I am looking at DU and other dem sites and you would think powell had made a full confession. That he is REDEEMED because he made an endorsement!
My God, a WAR CRIMINAL just endorsed Obama. It will take more than that to buy back his soul.
Oh, and Mr. Powell... HOW DARE YOU speak of the image of a mother over the grave of her Muslim soldier son.... HOW DARE YOU?
Sick bastard. If he gets back into our government then NOTHING has changed, and Obama would be a fool to lay with dogs.
Today McCain is making two appearances in Ohio, which he desperately wants. Jill Biden is in Missouri, which it's clear the Obama campaign wants (which would be historic.) Joe Biden is in Tacoma (and we're going), which is obviously to help Chris Gregoire (Governor), who needs it.
Check this out:
Sarah Palin
Roswell, New Mexico
Great Southwest Aviation
2:30 pm (MDT)
Christy
Same thing happened with Kissinger.
Personally, I would sell my soul this much to get Obama in, for now.
I won't sell an inch of my soul.
I will not stand before God and say I indulged war criminals. I won't do it. Not even for Obama.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
I've written alot of bad stuff about Colin Powell. I normally called him "Colon," because he was so close to the Ass. I'm gloating about this endorsement though. Even just to piss off Pukey People.
Christy
I admire your integrity. I was against the Gulf War and attacking Afghanistan. I still support this endorsement because I will compromise at times for certain outcomes.
In that we differ. I do admire your integrity. A lot in my life has been the lesser of two evils and I am used to it, though I would like for once to have an exception.
I am also horrified Powell did so little to stop what was going on.
He was also in positions where he was supposed to follow orders.
Believe me, the only reason I favor this endorsement is strategic.
Whatever the verdict on Colin Powell, he just made the most powerful statement for Obama & the direction of his leadership since Obama's acceptance speech. It was detailed and well reasoned. The fact that he was unapologetic about his past actually added power to his endorsement.
We can have that exception. Just once, we have all been waiting for that exception. We all wait for a time when we can confront the evil among us, and evolve past it. The time is now.
This is the time where we have to take a final stand. It may be the last chance for a last stand. These people truly believe we are in the end times and there is no doubt we are in a battle, not of politics or religion, but between good and evil itself.
They have conditioned you to be acclimated to the presence of evil, even vote for the one you are most comfortable with.
Either we stand ONLY for good and right and justice, or evil wins simply by remaining present. All it needs to win is sympathizers to its whispers.
Either we become something better, or we remain the same, vulnerable to the mad whims of undeniably evil people.
We have to pick sides now, and stay on them. Dig in and do not give them a single inch more. Not one more inch. Not one more concession, not one more indulgence, no more excuses and no more time. No more lies will be tolerated. NO MORE!
My integrity is conditional on the well being of my family. But my family, all our families, are under the threat of TRUE EVIL. Our integrity is the only shield we have left.
Oh, but it is as poweful as any weapon the devil himself could armor up with.
We, as a people, a nation, even a species are standing on the brink of HELL. Not another damn inch.
If we all stand together, side by side, and REFUSE to let them pass, then...we win.
Not another damn inch.
Stategic, yes. And bragging rights, yes.
But other than that, this whole display is a disgusting puppet show and an infuriating reminder of how we were betrayed.
When he is finished making love to all the cameras, maybe he could squeeze in a moment to tell us the truth about Iraq.
Starting premise: Political endorsements do not determine how people vote.
Since the pukes have ratcheted up the bombardment re Ayres, ACORN, "voter fraud", I worried that the volume & relentless repetition might insinuate doubts in some voter's.
The wingnuts will never question their web of lies, but Powell's endorsement will reassure many people because he is seen as calm, stable, moderate & thoughtful.
Powell won't change votes, but his endorsement will add stability in the face of desperate frenzy
"Powell won't change votes, but his endorsement will add stability in the face of desperate frenzy"
That is true, I had not thought of it that way.
Powell took pukes to the woodshed on their sleazy tactics, their extremism, their narrowing base & the damage they have incurred. At the same time he clings to the idea that 'we didn't quite achieve' promises like "compassionate conservatism"...
Regardless of the incongruity, he publicly denounced the current state of the pukes
Powell also spoke against having more Republican SCOTUS nominations
I don't agree Powell won't change votes - he can take some Independents away from McCain. They used to be in the same moderate segment of the party. McCain has drifted further to the right since. Powell can steal back Independents that had just started to go to McCain after the last debate ("Joe the Plumber" crowd), according to Zogby. (I do not trust that poll, however, because they bring in Zogby at the last minute after Rasmussen and Gallup had been used all the time.)
Strategically, I am glad for it. Philosophically, I am glad Powell finally spoke out. He was, after all, a Republican and a General. He has been conflicted since the first Gulf War ended but, unfortunately, not conflicted enough. It must finally have become unbearable. I don't think he can EVER live down totally that he supported those bastards though.
Condi would have a hard time repenting also. I hope she is having some tough moments. It's her karma.
I really believe it is too late for Dr. Frankenstien to chastise his monster now. I really do think it is too late.
They are like unchained genies that have no masters. They will not go back into the lamp just because Powell told them to.
As soon as Obama is elected, expect to fight White Power KKK Nazi movements for the next 4 years. His presense is already causing a surge in their numbers, enough so they are openly reestablishing their presence among us.
Maybe the Obama campaign knew about this and it was timed for now. Look what TIME says.
Halperin in Time Magazine:
The decision is not only symbolic but, in terms of timing, one of great tactical importance. Powell is a brand unto himself in American politics, and clearly transcends the media's tendency to hype endorsements more than their actual importance to voters. However, the indisputable benefit that Powell brings Obama is that the former Secretary of State and general is sure to block out any chance McCain has of winning the next two or three days of news coverage, as the media swoons over the implications of the choice. It is simple political math: McCain has 15 days to close a substantial gap, and he will now lose at least one fifth of his total remaining time.
Powell's decision brings other clear benefits as well. He is so trusted for his judgment on national security (even in the wake of his role in the current Iraq War) that his confidence in Obama to become commander-in-chief will resonate with many elites and voters. The Democrats' ability to play the Powell card for the next two weeks makes it much harder, even if there is an unexpected international crisis, for Republicans to suggest Obama simply isn't qualified to protect the country. Powell reinforced Obama's qualifications on "Meet the Press": "Senator Obama has demonstrated the kind of calm, patient, intellectual, steady approach to problem-solving that I think we need in this country."
I HOPE THE WHITE POWER SEGMENT IS DYING OUT and that the young among them are fickle and opt for the better side.
Christy
I don't think Powell will affect the far right. I think they already don't like him and now they will hate him. I am hoping that he will appeal to the middle, the moderates, not only of the parties but especially of the Independents. Democrats outnumber Republicans and Independents are needed by the Republicans in order to win. Powell can draw Independents away now that McCain has sold out with Palin etc. A more moderate Romney or Giulliani was not selected by the Republicans. McCain could have picked Crist or Pawlenty or Jindal and they would have been no strategic improvement - only geographic but then not gender. McCain can only win now by mass cheating and if so, there will be hell to pay.
As a matter of a fact, if you disregard roves handpuppet of a US Attorney in Colorado, the white power movement already has tried sending a squad of assasins out to hit Obama in Denver.
They will not keep sending idiots and tweekers.
The only way powell could have stopped the madness is to rob them of their delusions about what truly happened to us, what has really been going on. What is happening now.
The only way to contradict crazy is cold hard reality.
I agree he will never live it down. He most certainly will never live it down until he comes clean about it. Until then it should be hung around his neck like the albatross it is.
re. timing of the endorsement...
Finally an October surprise that's positive
I agree he will help with the undecided and some independents, but we are talking about a 3% gain. At most.
94% of the country has already made their choice. It does not even matter if mcmumbles gets caught raping a puppy in the meantime because his supporters will simply imply it is all a democratic plot to smear a puppy. Obama advisors are already warning us to expect an uptick in mcPOWs numbers before election day.
It is a good way to chew up favorable air time. But seriously, powell just makes me ill. He is a republican icon for a reason.
Barf.
BTW, know how all my white neocon nieghbors view this endorsement...? "Well of course he endorsed Obama, because he is black, and blacks stick together." And everytime they see his black face on tv they are reminded of the evil plot the brotherhood has to take over from all those poor good white christian folk.
He will not peel away near as many as he reinforces a stereotype for.
Christy
I agree about the McCain campaign-- the "vote fraud" frenzy has insured that it won't end with the election...
Part one:
Barack Obama is an unpatriotic radical left-wing extremist Muslim terrorist pawn in an international conspiracy to overthrow the government
Part two:
The election results are fraudulent--
I have major concerns about the weeks after the election
re "He will not peel away near as many as he reinforces a stereotype for."
But Powell may calm & reassure some who got the shakes from relentless character attacks
This headline SHOULD READ (but doesn't): McCain doesn't like all the little donors
COLUMBUS, Ohio – The vast sums of money Barack Obama is raising for the presidential campaign risk the post-Watergate financing reforms, Republican rival John McCain charged Sunday.
Speaking a few hours after Obama's campaign reported raising a record $150 million in September, McCain said the overall sum the Democrat has raised for his campaign — $605 million — showed the "dam has broken" for future White House races.
He also complained that the identities of people who contributed more than $200 million of Obama's total take have not been reported, although that is allowable under federal law because the individual donations fall under the $200 reporting limit.
"I'm saying it's laying a predicate for the future that can be very dangerous," McCain said on "Fox News Sunday." "History shows us where unlimited amounts of money are in political campaigns, it leads to scandal."
The Arizona senator has been limited to spending $84 million for the general election campaign after accepting federal funds under a program created after the Watergate scandal. Obama initially indicated he would adhere to the same limit, but reversed course and became the first post-Watergate candidate to finance a general-election campaign with private funding.
McCain, a former Vietnam prisoner of war, also sloughed off Obama's endorsement by one of the country's best known black Republicans and former military leaders, Colin Powell, who was President Bush's
Seven soldiers or former soldiers from the 4th Brigade at Fort Carson have been charged with murders:
The Colorado senator [Ken Salaza] also asked the Army to do several other reviews, including whether soldiers allegedly involved in recent murders had been given criminal or medical waivers to fulfill recruitment quotas.
Salazar: Review GI violence
Transcript of interview - Colin Powell endorsement of Obama
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27266223/
Powell's statement on SCOTUS-- correction of what I said above...
"I would have difficulty with two more conservative appointments to the Supreme Court, but that's what we'd be looking at in a McCain administration."
Transcript
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27266223/
Limbaugh Implies Powell Only Endorsed Obama Because He's Black
If so, then why is he so scared???
Powell's endorsement today hopefully will be enough to quiet those who insist that Obama is "unAmerican" and "can't be trusted".
Hopefully Powell's endorsement will also be enough to get Bachmann removed from her House Seat in Washington. Bachman's calls on Hardball for an expose of unAmerican members of Congress were actually as frightening to me as the prospect of Palin being VP.
Christy, aimzzz, slugbug and all. You are all right about Colin Powell. Christy, I believe that you are right in that we must maintain our rage at Powell et al who led us into war on a false premise and thereby caused the deaths of over a million people, mostly civilians. You are right that without the absolute truth, we can never trust that he has truly repented. I agree that we are owed that much - the absolute truth of the crimes done.
I know that I'm wrong to excuse his past actions. But when I think of the consequences of the cheating of the last 2 American elections, I am pleased to have Powell's endorsement of Obama. I wish it were not so, but people don't look on truth, integrity and honor as totally as you do, Christy. And we must live with the consequences of every single person who doesn't. Obama needs a landslide victory - not a court case victory - a landslide. I believe that Powell has delivered some Republican votes to Obama.
You know how Americans think of the military better than I do. You know that I regard McCain's POW status as a handicap to his ability to be the president. You know that the McCain supporters regard him as an absolute hero. Perhaps Powell's statements have given some of them pause.
I weep at the needless deaths in Iraq. And Afghanistan. And Zimbabwe. And Sudan. And ..... and ..... it is never ending. I can't be accuser, judge, jury and executioner of any of the guilty mass murderers. If one person can be used to give a better outcome than the alternative then, in this totally screwed up world, I want that person to speak. No matter how corrupt that person is. No matter how much blood is on his hands and head and heart.
I agree with Oncall's comment too. No matter what his past-deeds are, Powell's voice does speak to moderates (and former Republicans) and will be important given that the next two weeks, McCain/Palin intend to bloody the world with their hate and racism.
Memo to John McCain:
If you have a problem with the sheer amount of money that Obama has raised, perhaps you should consider the reason that so many Americans are willing to give even though many are almost assuredly hurting.
John, they're just not into you - or Sarah.
I think Powell is as horrified by the prospect of Sarah Palin as President as we are, and as are most Republicans. Even the more conservative (remember my friend who was leaning Kerry and voted Bush in the end because she saw "the light around him"--it was side and back lighting...) folks I know are simply horrified by the very real possibility that she could be the CIC.
I think we have a bandwagon rolling here. In the next few weeks, more and more will be jumping on it. The true patriots are more frightened of the militia mindset of the Palin crowd and the cynical politicos just want a job. I don't really know where Colin Powell is in that mix, but I am here to say that WE are here to keep reminding America that the past 8 years have been one long crime spree, and justice needs to be the order of the day, right after peace.
Michelle Bachmann became necessary in order to fill the vacuum left by Ann Coulter.
LOL...
Michelle Bachmann was on Hardball Friday. Since her appearance, Democrat El Tinklenberg (her opponent) has been overwhelmed with donations...
The articles below report different amounts, I think because of when written & also because so much happened so fast... At any rate, it's huge-- remember it's a congressional race in Minnesota...
This article reports $120,000 yesterday
October Surprise: Bachmann raises more than $120,000 for Tinklenberg
$488,127.30 at last update on Kos
(Update 4) Kossacks, Thank You and Michele Bachmann, $488,127.30 raised!
Gaaaccckkkk! If Obama wins, does it mean that Ann Coulter comes back???
SORRY! Botched link in 9:43 PM post above:
(Update 4) Kossacks, Thank You and Michele Bachmann, $488,127.30 raised!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/18/2550/3286/381/634245
Another... remember that Bachmann was on Hardball Friday night
[Elwyn Tinklenberg's] Act Blue donations as of 2 pm Saturday are approaching $180,000, raised since yesterday.
snip
...as the money’s coming in so quickly, the campaign can’t yet give firm numbers.
Tinklenberg campaign to release ‘overwhelming’ donation numbers today
Biden Takes Over Cheney Stadium (with video I shot)
http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/silenced_majority_portal/2008/10/joe-biden-takes.html
Lots of photos - I can post them here but it'll take up alot of space.
This is an amazing diary - PALLING AROUND WITH TERRORISTS
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/19/15139/780/64/635555
Instead of how it begins .. this is how it ends.
Neither Weather’s terror tactics nor "revolutionary expropriations" led to a single positive result. Indeed, they made domestic resistance to U.S. plutocracy and imperialist war even harder. Exactly as many of us had said that they would do when those who would become Weathermen first began making their arguments. They acted, to use their own terminology, on a foundation of false consciousness. As we have seen in this year’s election campaign, their actions so long ago still benefit the rightwing propaganda machine today.
But many of them have been incarcerated for their actions. That’s something which can’t be said of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Henry Kissinger (honorary chair of the McCain campaign) and others among the high-and-mighty. The time these terrorists serve for their crimes will amount to zero when all is said and done.
I still maintain that Powell enjoys widespread popularity - not saying he deserves it - he just is very popular, like Reagan was. I have been hearing nothing but Powell, Powell, Powell for years. Democrats were even hoping he'd run for President. I heard them all the time. Military people. Definitely independents. Republicans who were the ordinary kind who are now questioning their party like he is.
Skeptical centrists should be more convinced about Obama's readiness to be commander-in-chief, esp. re national security. Too bad alot of military have already voted, though I had heard low-ranking military favored Obama strongly, though not always vocally (they don't dare), with officers and vets flirting with McCain - but same type would be floored by Powell.
McCain tried to minimize it. Powell also has motives for his legacy of wanting to distance himself from Bush. He also may think he was poorly treated by the Bush administration. Powell is also not doing it at a time when it takes alot of bravery - Obama is still ahead.
Limbaugh and Buchanan of course said it was about race. I think Powell is offended by the Republican inability to curtail the racism in some parts of their campaign but doubt very much that the primary motive was race. Powell is also taking flak for dissing the creepy Supreme Court people like Alito and Scalia.
Bob Dole thought it was a big deal. Republicans have not been able to win over independents to center-right. Guiliani's people agreed. Even Newt Gingrich.
I thought Powell made alot of sense. I don't like wars and military in the first place so it's with that reservation that I say this.
One more update from Seoul:
I am returning to the US in a few days. However, that will only be temporary, as my meditation regimen is far from over. As soon as my work situation (which requires my in-person help at this time) is settled, I will need to come back to Seoul again, and stay for several more months.
I have no idea where I will be on Election Day, so I am preparing to vote absentee. It looks like my only viable legal option, according to my county registrar, is to fax in my vote with a signed affidavit. Sure, whoever transcribes my faxed-in vote into a real ballot has a good chance of tampering with my vote (for example, switching my "No" vote on the gay marriage ban to a "Yes," "in the name of God," something that won't happen in San Francisco but can surely happen in heavily Catholic Los Angeles). But I will vote anyway.
And I must. For Reverend Moon and the South Korean government to have a say in America's future (and my own right to get married), and for me to NOT have a say, is utterly unacceptable.
I also want to share my submission to a Facebook group which opposes California's upcoming constitutional gay marriage ban. Of course, it's about the gay marriage ban, but more importantly, it's also about the harmful South Korean and Korean-American influence on US politics.
Submission to Facebook:
A thought from overseas - by Rachel K. So
For the past month, I've been in Seoul, South Korea. Although I am returning to California in a few days, that return will only be temporary; I will again leave California, most likely before Election Day, and come back to Seoul for several more months. That means I will have to vote absentee.
I will tell you one nasty secret about Yes on 8. It has one huge advantage that the No campaign will NEVER match: the utter determination of a whole bunch of foreigners who ought to have NO say in the politics of California. Specifically, the Unification Church and Reverend Moon, as well as its biggest financial backer, the government of South Korea, which now has a new conservative homophobic President with an extreme admiration of the Reagan-Bush agenda. The Unification Church funnels a lot of South Korean government money into US Religious Right groups. The fundamentalist churches of the Korean-American community, which control the entire community and take orders from the South Korean government and the US Religious Right, round out this foreign threat.
The US was vital in spreading Christianity to Korea, and in defending South Korea during the war. But those considerations were practical; the Christian missionaries who came to Korea were a whole bunch of southern white supremacists seeking nonwhite pawns for their cause, and the US had to defend South Korea not for the Koreans' sake, but so that Japan would remain a capitalist, democratic island post in Asia with South Korea as a buffer. But the South Korean conservatives have decided that the US acted out of pure benevolence for the Korean people, and will do anything that the Republican/Christian establishment asks to do - never mind that the defense of South Korea was a joint bipartisan effort, shared between President Truman (Democratic) and General MacArthur (Republican).
Remember that South Korea is the ONLY Christian nation where drawing Jesus and Mary in the image of locals is considered blasphemy, and they must be drawn as white Europeans; never mind that those white European portraits of Jesus and Mary are themselves localized adaptations to fit European tastes. And this is thanks to the South Korean Confucio-Christian devotion to the superior white American race that brought them the Gospel of Jesus.
Korea has always been a devout Confucian fundamentalist society, and showing proper respect to a benevolent foreign power has always been a must. That's why South Korea's new conservative government will bend over backwards for anything it thinks George Bush and the Religious Right wants, even though neither Bush nor the American people may ever really ask. This includes the unconditional resumption of importation of American beef, without independently checking for mad cow disease; this has backfired so badly, that no sane South Korean of any political persuasion will ever eat American beef again. And this also includes the protection of America's "Christian values" from the homosexual assault on them.
South Korea's Christian community has reconciled the teachings of Christianity with those of Confucianism, resulting in ultra-conservative, extremely misogynistic versions of Christianity that try to suppress the rest of the population. The new government represents them, and Buddhists and other non-Christians are being persecuted very actively. Throughout Korea's history, all religions have existed in harmony and peace; the Confucio-Christians are about to destroy that harmony once and for all, taking orders from their Confucian superior elder brothers - the US Religious Right. In fact, despite tons of churches in Seoul (many neighborhoods have a Christian church every 100 yards), virtually none are Quakers, Unitarians, or any other liberal/peace denomination.
A bigger, more practical consideration is the presence of hundreds of South Koreans in California. If Proposition 8 is defeated, gay couples will continue to live in peace as their neighbors, and they will "corrupt" the Korean-American youth. And down the road, South Koreans will enter California gay marriages and demand that Seoul recognize those marriages; that will be a huge headache for the new conservative government, which has made it clear that homosexuality is "unnatural" and must be discouraged at all costs, especially for teens. The Korean-Americans were instrumental in installing the current conservative Seoul government, and will ensure a Yes vote on 8, to answer its wishes and to protect their own youth.
The new conservative government in Seoul is determined to throw out the past three decades of South Korea's progress in economics and democracy, and adopt the failed policies of the past three decades in the US. And it has the right to do so, however foolish it may be. But it has no right to impose its Confucio-Christian version of what America ought to be, on the American people themselves, especially on a state that loves its diversity and tolerance as much as California. Only California can decide its own future and its moral laws, and it must be free from the South Korean influence.
Remember:
Yes on 8 = letting foreigners buy your vote.
No on 8 = defending Californian values.
Correction: "hundreds of South Koreans in California" ought to be "hundreds of THOUSANDS of South Koreans in California."
How $5, $10, $25 beats $84.1 million in federal campaign funds
If you live in N.Carolina, make sure you actually vote for Obama. If you just vote "Dem Party" it doesn't actually vote for the Presidential race.
I'm with Sirota on this one.
A Reminder About Colin Powell...
Just a little note on Colin Powell, who many believe will appear on Meet the Press to endorse Barack Obama this weekend. If this happens, the elite media will be ablaze with stories talking about how awesome and Serious and Respected Colin Powell is. While this propaganda will be good in its short-term benefit to Obama*, it will be horrific in the long-term sense of our country's ability to recognize its worst decisions and move forward from them.
Let's just remember: Colin Powell is one of the major reasons we went to war in Iraq. In his 2003 United Nations speech, he perpetrated one of the biggest frauds in the history of international diplomacy - a deliberate and calculated fraud that, in terms of its blood-and-guts ramifications, dwarfs major scandals like Watergate. Sure, there were certainly other Bush officials who helped get us into war. But to deny that Colin Powell was a major factor in sending us into a war based on lies is to quite literally deny that the sky is blue.
The idea that being endorsed by someone like that is a good thing - well, that logic may fly in the television studios of New York and D.C., but it shouldn't fly anywhere else. A person whose most important legacy is destroying America's international credibility shouldn't be seen as a Serious or Respectable person, nor an asset to any campaign, no matter how many apologists - liberal or conservative - claim that "behind the scenes" Powell was really a good guy. He wasn't a good guy - he was one of the handful of people who knowingly lied us into a war. That the elite media imparts even an ounce of credibility to this dishonest yes-man is not a commentary on Powell's alleged positive attributes. It is a reflection of the elite media's deep disdain for the facts and truth it purports to respect.
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/18033
I think the question I asked yesterday bears repeating.
Do we want Powell back in the government in ANY function at all?
And here is another good one. Or two even.
If I vote for Obama, will HE put this man back into our government...? Don't we deserve to know that BEFORE we vote for Obama?
The very thought he would or could makes me ill and angry.
Christy,
I watched the interview on Meet the Press.
1. They asked him about the U.N. speech he gave and he once again said that based on the information he received from the intelligence community, he felt that he was not lying to the people or the U.N. He also commented that Senators and Reps used that same information to vote on the IRW (still rationalizing...), even though we know the IRW was permission to DISCUSS war with other nations and build a coalition and it was not permission to just "take it to Saddam any time Bush wanted."
2. Powell claims he is not interested in returning to government work, but like he said with Bush, (paraphrased) "If called by the President to do xyz for my country, I would be there."
Powell is a glory seeker and he will go wherever he thinks he can get the most glory without ever being FULLY vetted.
And on Iraq, I saw how he twisted and spun and said people who believed he could have stopped it are just soooo wrong. The man is a liar who was involved in one of the most daring and lethal frauds ever committed.
He can sit there and say all day long that his defense is that he was just too stupid to realize he was lying ABOUT WAR, but how much longer are we going to actually tolerate 'answers' like that?
His pleas of ignorance are PATHETIC. PATHETIC PATHETIC PATHETIC.
Funny how ALLLLLLLLL of them have the exact same defense 'Well, I can not be blamed for the lies I told, because I was too stupid to know they were lies. Awww. Poor me!'
And the dead... just stay dead.
"WASHINGTON — Colin Powell will have a role as a top presidential adviser in an Obama administration, the Democratic White House hopeful said Monday."
As far as I am concerned, Obama just lost my vote.
I am done.
The United States of Stupid can kiss my ass.
actually,
I'm more likely to believe Senators or Congressmen who gave Powell and Bush/Cheney the benefit of the doubt over the whole speech in front of the U.N.
However, Powell was part of their inner (outer) circle! HE KNEW THEY WERE WARMONGERS AND THAT THEY WERE GOING TO SET HIM UP WITH THE SPEECHES BECAUSE HE WAS THE ONLY ONE WITH CREDIBILITY.
Knowing what he knew about that--alone--was enough for him to tell the world that Cheney was shaking down the FBI or CIA for HIS SPIN of the facts. He should have been a truth-teller--a whistle-blower.
And yet, yes...somehow, Powell hangs there in his own purgatory between respect and no-respect. And he may be more conscientious than Bush/Cheney/Rove/McCain/Rumsfeld/Frist and so on...but he's not the same guy who had "Integrity" as his middle name in 2000. And no matter what he says on those shows, he KNOWS he is not who he was; he sold his soul to the Republican liars. And even if he is now pro-Obama, his soul will never be as whole as it was before he went before the U.N. and lied to us. I believe that he KNEW that he only had half the facts and that he was lying us and betraying us.
However, that being said, I do believe that he will have to WORK HARD for redemption. The most important redemption isn't for my opinion or yours or anyone's. But if by chance there really is a Heaven or a Hell, he will have his opportunity to be redeemed there.
From the same interview that Christy just posted: A.P.
I have to admit, I am surprised by Obama's comment given that Obama was 'originally against the War in Iraq' as he has often said.
Also, McCain and Hillary drove this bus off the road...as Obama points out. BUT Powell was the steering wheel that drove them off the road.
I don't get it. I have to admit. I think he just took away his reason for supporting Obama instead of McCain when he does something like that!
Powell adds ZERO credibility to Obamas FP creds.
Worse than ZERO, it shows Obama obviously forgot what happened last time we let THAT ONE anywhere near foreign policy. Well I have not forgotten. I will never forget what he did.
Mr. I can'tbeevilbecauseI'mstupid. What a bunch of bullsh*t.
LOOK WHAT THAT MAN DID TO US! LOOK WHAT HE DID THE LAST TIME HE WAS TRUSTED!
And Obama wants him as a TOP ADVISOR?!!! MY GOD... FOR WHAT???
What can he possibly add with that freaking albatross hanging around his neck?! He was wrong so we should TRUST HIM AGAIN?! The same guy used to sell us an illegal war? That is INSANE.
WHERE IS THE CHANGE THAT HE IS ALWAYS TALKING SMACK ABOUT??? WHERE IS THE CHANGE???
Because from what I can see he just promised a bush cabal WAR CRIMINAL a high ranking post in his administration.
Christy,
I can see where you're coming from. Also, in 2004, when JK was sitting by the Grand Canyon and was asked if he would do something different knowing what he knew today...(Of course, he didn't hear the whole question properly due to hearing loss from the Vietnam War and also due to wind noise and answered the question 'wrong' as far as the "left" was concerned.)
Anyways, this is in essence that same moment for Obama EXCEPT that HE DOES KNOW EXACTLY what Powell did and SAID to others, people like Kerry and others who RELIED UPON HIS WORD when they made their vote..., and yet...
Unless he's saying this to get Powell to tell him the truth about Bush Co. crimes so that we can get those criminals put in jail, then I don't want to even believe he means this!
I am sorry, but... offering him a job, a grand job in a coveted position of power at the hand of a president, is somehow a ploy to get him to confess to his own role in WAR CRIMES...?
Ummm. Say huh?
Christy
Slow down a little :)
On Powell as an adviser... Getting advice is very different from following advice.
We just suffered through 8 years of a "president" who surrounded himself exclusively with people who agreed with him-- lockstep
Obama has been talking to Powell for 2 years, but Obama's policy on the war disagrees with Powell's views
I'm scared of people who won't listen to different views and ideas...
Obama got where he is because he's his own person. He's intelligent and discerning.
Obama's got my vote, Powell or no Powell
Also Obama has not offered Powell a job-- he talks with him as an advisor.
WHIP IT GOOD!!
DEVO Benefit for Obama in Akron, with Black Keys & Chrissie Hyne - with video!!
http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/silenced_majority_portal/2008/10/devo-reunites-f.html
I support the Powell endorsement of Obama and am glad for it.
Powell has been out of favor with the Bush Administration for a long time. He is fed up. It should have happened sooner but I'll take it.
Obama is glad because this may help with Independents, which he needs to win. He needs a big margin because the voter fraud and Republican accusations, smears and the racism.
If he wins the Kerry states plus a few more, he's in. Then there will be trouble. I have his back and don't have to agree with everything he does, nor did I with Kerry.
I do not consider myself a leftist, practically, only idealistically. If I really did, I would leave America. I am, after all, paying war taxes and using energy that others are being robbed of.
I am a Yellow Dog Democrat but that's only when it comes to voting. I have protested wars since I was 15 and did not even support the Gulf War or going into Afghanistan after 9/11. I protested that in the street because I thought they should infiltrate rather than bomb.
Our next administration will probably be moderate, which is better than rightwing.
One thing I know - it will not be leftist. Maybe after three or four elections.
I don't believe Powell will EVER be redeemed.
I believe his endorsement is strategically useful. He does have some knowledge of the world and is a realist camp Republican not a neocon Republican. He is more like Bush I, in fact he helped convince Bush I to get out of Iraq during the Gulf War after 100 days.
He is a moderate centrist slightly to the left of someone like Bill Clinton.
For the record, McCain is supported by Kissinger and Haig.
This morning, Kayakbiker's sister and friends had one of their signs vandalized and later stolen.
This is the letter that will be published:
SMOKY MT. TIMES
10/20/08
To the person or persons who vandalized and then stole the Obama sign on Fontana Road
On average I spent one bedridden recovery day for each of the 6 such signs I painted. Two of those days I was totally unable to walk. Disability and mind numbing chronic pain hasn’t kept me from exercising free speech. You tried to do that to me. You’re my handicap, a mean-spirited bigot with a can of red spray paint out in the dark, hobbling democracy with racist graffiti.
The big “N†word tells us what upsets you the most, but dropping the sign and both American Flags to the ground is your way of saying what exactly, that you’re willing to defile the flag to keep Obama’s name out of sight?
Here’s what I know: the American Flag represents freedom of thought, speech, and an infinite number of choices that define a free society. The flag is the icon button, a hyperlink to the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I’m betting you haven’t read them.
You may be afraid of a black President, or be afraid of his name. I am way more afraid of your ideas. Tearing down the flag to get to the candidate you oppose and destroying the sign that five people worked hard to build, paint, and install, thereby trashing their right to free speech makes YOU anti-American. Congratulations pin head, you’re a domestic terrorist.
If people who share your kind of thinking are in a slim minority (or lunatic fringe) the chances are that the flag, the country, and freedom will survive these assaults of ignorance, greed, fear, and stupidity. We’re coming off an eight year bender on these toxins. You and the other anti-Americans will still reap the benefits of freedom, and Barack Obama will serve your interests. Your welfare will haunt his dreams and drive every hour of his working day. He will serve you even though you aren’t a patriot, even though you violated the US Constitution, even though you called him names. That’s because he is a great American, proud enough to take an oath that makes him accountable to each and every one of his countrymen. Millions have fought and died so that this can happen. Democracy is not in your hands alone.
I can’t be angry at you. My heart breaks for you.
Lisa Bocook
POB 885
Bryson City, NC
828 736 0677
THIS IS THE DAILY KOS DIARY that shows Obama is up in the polls in North Carolina AND it is illustrated with one of the very same signs her friend made! (See the Confederate flag in the background also) - We had it on our blog a few days ago (since it's her brother in MN's blog)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/20/1497/9313/181/636463
I just sent it to her in case she didn't know. Also, 30 tires were slashed on vehicles outside the Fayetteville Obama rally. I had just seen the beautiful Fayetteville slide show of the event so it was quite striking - the chasm between beauty and ignorance.
Our Biden rally yesterday was so positive - same time as a Palin rally which got quite ugly. It's a mentality.
They are outgunned, scared and pathetic. Once they are down, we can work on other things. I presume I can say "we" but if not, so be it. I don't do all this crap when it isn't election years - it's not as if it's for the fun of it, though we try to make it as fun as possible!
Obama is up in the polls. NC looks good.
Colin Powell effect? That will show up soon.
DKos comments:
I am not a fan of Powell, but his endorsement will help here. (NC)
by jamaicanblood o
huge military presence here, too The Powell endorsement is probably second in importance here to Virginia. It's not just heavily military, it's heavily Army. For Army guys, there's Powell, there's Eisenhower, Bradley and Patton, there's Black Jack Pershing, there's arguments about Lee or Grant, and there's George Washington. Yes, Santa Claus, there is a Virginia. And it's going Democratic.
by Anarchofascist
It's not just the military - it's the military retirees. There are tons of them in NC. Powell's endorsement gave them the cover they needed to move to Obama. Because if Powell thinks he's OK, then he's OK. And it's safe to admit you support him.
LOL
If Barack Obama's a socialist, what's George W. Bush?
My husband and I are watching the Colin Powell endorsement again and we are glad for it. I like it more every time I watch it.
Have found these hate examples already today!
NORTH CAROLINA:
The Obama signs we reported on that were big and strong and wooden and required a post hole digger to place have been, in one case, vandalized with paint (including N word), and in a second, removed.
Someone slashed the tires of at least 30 vehicles parked outside the Crown Coliseum on Sunday during a rally for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, in Fayetteville.
WEST VIRGINIA:
Michael Moore sends an article about how in West Virginia, some people are voting for Democrats and the machines register as Republican. Poll workers blame human error, but the mistakes go in one direction, always favoring Republicans.
WASHINGTON:
Someone responds to a racist on a public list and that person goes to a website which links to the person's address, donations etc. and a threat is made.
And it's not even 10 AM. Slugbug More at DailyKos
NEW YORK
My lawn signs were destroyed last night. And this is in a suburb of NYC! They were mangled and left on the lawn as if to say "We know where you live and this is how violent we are."
TENNESSEE
My wife had an early voting experience here in Nashville, Tennessee, where she saw her vote momentarily flip from Barack Obama to Green Party candidate Cynthia McKinney. She voted on a touch-screen paperless machine.
ILLINOIS
A 74-year-old woman and a 46-year-old man with Obama signs in their front yards near the 600 block of South Villa Avenue received similar letters that had a Villa Park Village Hall return address. "Get the Obama signs off your property—now," the letter reads. "Failure to obey this order will result in the immediate death of all family members."
"Also Obama has not offered Powell a job-- he talks with him as an advisor."
What is he advising him on? How to commit war crimes and get away with it?
Even better, how to get away with it and get promoted.
Obama may as well have just announced that no one will be punished for the last 8 years, because that is exactly what this pick says for him.
And as far as a job goes, Obama just clearly said that powell was to be a part of his administration. Sounds like a job offer to me.
I understand yalls need to rationalize it, even see it as a positive.
But the fact is Obama just promised THE Poster Boy for Iraq Lies a job back in power.
re Powell advising Obama
"What is he advising him on? How to commit war crimes and get away with it?"
Obama has been talking with Powell for 2 years. During that time, have you seen anything of Powell in Obama? I assume they talk about foreign policy & the war, among other things but I don't see that Powell has put a personal stamp on any of Obama's policies.
Obama is his own person & Powell is only one advisor's
Do we want the world to trust us again...?
Well, as long as Colin Powell is sitting up there next to the throne, you can kiss that idea goodbye.
Powell was to be a part of his administration
Could be a job, could an unofficial advisor, could be occasionally as an envoy
Maybe he was being coy, but Powell said he doesn't want a job
Why would he want THE POSTER BOY for Iraq war lies around AT ALL?
He wants us to trust him when he is putting up bush cabal insiders as his advisors...?
HELL NO.
Either they are war criminals who are responsible and liable for the deaths of over 1 million innocent people and they should all be punished and never allowed anywhere near power ever again ...
Or... it honestly does not matter and the same war criminals that got us into this mess will still be in control of our people.
I won't trust any one who is President of the US but I want Obama/Biden much more than I want McCain/Palin.
We need our whole foreign policy and economic system revamped.
No one is going to do that for us. Certainly not the President of this country because all they care about is "American interests."
That said, I am going to support the Democratic choice.
Less of two evils?
See any other viable choices? I mean, I like Kucinich a lot!
War criminals were involved in our government waaaaaay before the Iraq war. CIA dirty deeds predate the neocons by decades. We overthrew Iran's democratically elected leader. We propped up dictators in Central America and elsewhere as long as they were in our pocket. We got involved in the quagmire that was Vietnam to protect our "interests in the region" (such as Royal Dutch Shell) and said it was about the "red menace." We allowed Cheney's equipment to slant drill into Iraq from Kuwait, let Saddam invade and then pulverized his army, cut and ran and then allowed him to slaughter Kurds and also Shiites that we told to revolt and we'd back them up. We gave chemical weapons to Saddam to use on Iran and gave them help too. We helped Bin Laden to work against the Soviets in Afghanistan. Now we are losing to the Taleban.
Powell is just a fly on the windshield of American policy.
Yes, and this time we were all waiting for an exception. A president who would not employ or take the advice of war criminals.
Obama just proved he is willing to be the same. Yet he stands there and talks about change.
He had a wonderful chance TO CHANGE THINGS and instead he offered up a war criminal as his advisor.
Powell is not 'just a fly'. He is central to one of the greatest acts of HIGH TREASON ever committed against our people by our government.
Christy
I'm not diss'in you. You are asking important questions.
I'm not a Powell apologist... He was instrumental in getting us into an unjust & unnecessary war.
He supported the war, but the war we got was not what he intended... not what he thought he was supporting. Clearly he was wrong... the invasion of Iraq was an absurd tragedy & it only got worse.
I don't excuse his role in starting the war. I don't excuse that he didn't walk out when he saw the truth. He didn't denounce it. It was weak & it was wrong. Some say he thought he might be able to change the situation. If so, maybe it was less weak that it appeared-- it would take a certain courage to keep trying in the face of criticism from both sides-- from those saying that he was selling out & from BushCo who said he was absurd & irrelevant. I really don't know.
But yes, he is guilty of that much.
On the one hand, he helped launch the war and he did not walk out or denounce the war. On the other hand, BushCo shut him out because he was critical of what they were doing. Yet he still thought there should have been a war... just not that war.
I don't condone what he did, but IMHO, it falls short of war crime.
War crime trials are in order for Bush & a number top level officials. Again, IMHO, Powell is not in that category.
Someone said, "Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer."
"He supported the war, but the war we got was not what he intended... not what he thought he was supporting. "
I am not dissing you either, but do you realize how bad that sounds?
For 1. Powell does not get to use the I am Stupid excuse. At that level NONE OF THEM get to use the I can't be incompetant because I am stupid defense.
For 2. Yes, he is a war criminal, and he got EXACTLY what he was put there to produce. An illegal war based on LIES. HIS LIES.
He INTENDED to lie us into war, and that is exactly what he got.
For 3. If this was not the war he wanted, why does he still support it 100%?
And 4. If he is NOT a war criminal, then why not tell us exactly how he did try to stop it then? The easy answer is he never did try to stop it.
Ok... Now. let us go through that scenario where he really was just too stupid to realize he was lying his own countrymen into war.
Why would ANYONE take the advice of someone so murderously STUPID?
He is a war criminal. The moment he left the stage at the UN he walked into history as a WAR CRIMINAL and nothing he has done since mitigates that simple fact.
Either we make a stand against being ruled by war criminals.... OR
Some war criminals are ok as long as we can say they are on our side and brag about how many votes that will gain us.
Either it is ok or it is not.
Either it changes... Or nothing changes, because in the end that, being ruled by war criminals, is the core of the disease that has sickened and weakened us for atleast the last 30 years.
My mothers generation let Nixon get away with it, and now they all expect to get away with it. They do get away with it. They go from one act of abuse of power to another, and instead of punishing or shunning them, instead we give them MORE POWER.
When does it STOP...? Oh Lord God Sweet Jesus WHEN???? When when when?!
For me, it stopped this morning. It made me cry too. For about 10 minutes. Until I realized what an easy choice it really was after all.
New thread
McCain's attacks are unfair, CNN poll says
According to a new survey from CNN and the Opinion Research Corporation, nearly 6 in 10 Americans believe the Republican nominee has unfairly gone negative in his bid for the White House. That percentage is significantly higher than it was last September, when just 42 percent thought the Republican Presidential nominee was running an overly negative campaign, and is also considerably higher than the percentage of Americans who feel Obama has gone unfairly negative.
snip
"In previous elections, both candidates have been viewed as attacking the other unfairly, so the penalty for doing so has tended to cancel out in past years," CNN Polling Director Keating Holland said. "But this year McCain faces that problem all by himself, so any blowback affects only him while Obama seems above the fray."
Imagine if Powell had endorsed McCain - it would have helped McCain.
I want McCain to lose worse than I want Powell to be humiliated.
Humiliated?
You think this is about humiliating him?
Ummm. Wow. And. No.
It is about justice. For the living and the dead. Justice for our nation. Justice for my children, and your children. Justice for Iraqis. Justice for the entire earth that we have unleashed hell upon.
Do you honestly believe humiliation is a fair trade for justice?
I don't want him humiliated. I want him tried. I want justice! Don't you? Don't we all?
Don't we AT LEAST deserve that much in a land that made all of us repeat over and over again JUSTICE FOR ALL??
I don't want his humility. What a worthless token that would be.